Peco N Gauge Electrofrog Points

[sac2025]

Hi - I getting my knickers in a twist reading so many different articles on how to wire electrofrog points (Peco N Gauge Streamline). I'm not the best with electrics, so it has to be 'idiot proof' for me to understand !

 

Could anybody tell me where does the wire on the frog get soldered too? Under the frog there are 3 wires (see attached photo)? and how can I wire the switch and point motor together so they operate at the same time, I have attcahed a drawing I have found but I'm struggling to follow.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Kris]

Some point motors will have the electrical switches built in (peco ones don't). If you are using the peco point motors you can purchase an attachment that will give it this switching option, the other option is to add a second switch next to the point switch and move both at the same time.

 

For the wire, you only have 2 wires showing on the bottom of your point in the photo, in the past I have soldered directly to one of these. (be careful not to hold the soldering iron on to long and unsolder the existing wire from rail) .

[Etched Pixels]

You don't need to solder to the wires under the frog (and in fact I'd suggest not doing so if you are not good at soldering). Those wires also join to the inner rails coming out of the point itself so you can solder to the tracks beyond which is a lot easier and a larger (and cheaper ) target and easier to fix if it falls off later. If you are happy soldering then those wires are a good spot to hit as it'll be totally hidden when on the baseboard.

 

The SEEP point motors also contain the needed relay and work nicely with Peco points so are another alternative motor choice to the Peco one with the add on switch.

 

First things first however - you only need to fit them if you are going for absolute reliability as opposed to having to clean them now and again - so one choice is to solder a dropper wire to feed the power if you ever need it, tape up the end and get around to it as and if needed.

 

It's a pity Peco haven't moved with the times, most other vendors electrofrog products have internal switching nowdays.

 

Alan

[sac2025]

Thanks for the replies, I'm going for reliability as on a previous layout had insulfrog points and they used to drive me mad when slowly shunting a loco overthem, the loco used to stop, hesitate etc wasn't smooth at all.

 

Also Alan when joining to the inner rails coming out of the point, would you recommend 1) a dropper to the base of the rail and remove a sleeper or 2) solder to the side of a rail ?

 

 

 

 

[Kris]

If you go down the route of soldering beyond the point I would suggest that you put a short section of track in next to the point and solder to that, cutting the webbing out from between the sleepers and soldering to the bottom of the rail there. When soldering to n gauge rail I always found that it was a good idea to slightly rough up the area to be soldered to with a file. It gives the solder more to grip onto enhancing reliability.

[Etched Pixels]

Thanks for the replies, I'm going for reliability as on a previous layout had insulfrog points and they used to drive me mad when slowly shunting a loco overthem, the loco used to stop, hesitate etc wasn't smooth at all.

 

 

The two things are not connected - just in case there is a confusion here.

 

Insulfrog points have a plastic area where the rails join, that makes wiring simpler as the frog isn't live. In the case of Peco N gauge its a big problem as physics doesn't favour the small, and the plastic bit is huge compared to OO (and indeed to most other vendors products). Electrofrogs have the frog metal.

 

The electrofrog as done by Peco means the two rails are bonded and that means you need isolators/switches if they can receive power from the frog end and don't have inbuilt switching (unlike Kato, Fleischmann, ...)

 

Peco electrofrog points do not need the switch and power to the frog if fed from the blade end only. It's a reliability extra, the frog is still powered by the point blades if you don't do this. Where it helps is that the switch has a much bigger contact area and isn't likely to get dirt in it in the same way as the blades so is much more reliable and has lower resistance. The slips and crossings do need switches, for the points it is optional.

 

An electrofrog point without the frog wired specially still has a powered frog and still works just as nicely providing the blade contact area is clean.

 

Alan

[Peter & Seth]

Peco electrofrog points do not need the switch and power to the frog if fed from the blade end only. It's a reliability extra, the frog is still powered by the point blades if you don't do this. Where it helps is that the switch has a much bigger contact area and isn't likely to get dirt in it in the same way as the blades so is much more reliable and has lower resistance. The slips and crossings do need switches, for the points it is optional.

 

An electrofrog point without the frog wired specially still has a powered frog and still works just as nicely providing the blade contact area is clean.

 

Alan

 

Thanks for the clarification, Alan!

 

I'm sat here at my first N-gauge layout, all 1' x 4' of it with no less than 10 Peco Code-55 Finescale Electrofrog points, wondering how the hell I'm supposed to wire them all up! I've just finished laying the cork underlay and thinking about what to do next. The layout is so small I'm wondering if there's any point motorising the points? I bought one SEEP motor (with built-in switch) to see what it looks like and use it as a template to drill holes and add wiring, etc. It would cost me around another £40 for another 9 motors plus CDU, wiring, connectors and switches - basically not cheap. I could by another loco - maybe two.

 

As this is my first layout and I've not gone for the easiest of track work (see Pete Harvey's Dudley Road as my muse), and it's going to be DCC, I think I'll not motorise the points. I'll just have to keep the blades clean which should be easy on a such small layout.

 

The only final question I have is that am I correct in thinking I have to use isolating joiners on the inner-rails out of the frog? And I should feed power into other end of of every point and then into all dead-end roads?

[TomJ]

I'm just coming to the end of building my first N gauge layout (also a pretty small shunting plank) and I'm no electrical whizz. However I took the decision to add Peco point motors and add the accessory switch to switch the point polarity. All I can say is that it was the best decision I made, and I can run my layout so much better. Basically as has been explained youi don't need to rely on the blades making contact. For me it didn't seem to matter how hard I cleaned the rails and blades it was still a problem, but now one I don't ever have, even after ballasting and painting the track. I think especially in N the area of contact is very small so it doesn't take much to interfere with this.

 

The way I looked at it is that there are three areas that need wiring and I did them one at a time logically. If I can wire it then anyone can!!

 

First (and obviously), wire the track up. With both live and dead frog the feed needs to be at the toe end. However with live frog points the feed must not be to the frog end of the points - so if this could happen you need a isolating joiners. However the points also set the polarity on the track beyond them so that any track against the point will be 'dead'. This isn't an issue in DC and indeed many people use it to isolate engines. It doesn't have to be an issue in DCC but if you want to run engines (or have the lights and sound on) on a bit of track set against the point then you need a feed to this track - and so you need isolating joiners to stop the power going to the front.

 

Then next I wire up the frog polarity switches - again as stated above v simple. All you need are two wires from the toe end and one from somewhere on the frog rails into the peco accessory switch. If there is alos a track power feed to these points then you can take a wire off these to the switch - if not you need to add one.

 

Finally wire the point motors.

 

All seems complicated - and sorry I don't have access to any diagrams - but its actually quite simple and well worth doing.

 

If you choose not to add point motors then you can simply wire switches in to change the frog as you change it - but the risk is that you forget to change the switch and get a short circuit.

 

HTH