Michael Delamar Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Hi chaps I know that the yellow cabside stripes denoted that the loco was not allowed south of Crewe after electrification. question is, Who where the stripes for? ie was it for signalmen, drivers, shed staff etc? or all of them? and is there a list of which locos carried them many thanks Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
industrial Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Mainly the fireman and any body who were likely to climb on to the tender top to pull coal forward etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Mainly the fireman and any body who were likely to climb on to the tender top to pull coal forward etc. Doesnt that kinda miss the point? I'm open to correction, but I understood the stripe was an operational/administrative device to identify certain classes prohibited from working over lines that were subject to tighter OHLE clearances - if the stripe 'worked' as it should, then that possibility wouldnt arise Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 3, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2011 Hi chaps I know that the yellow cabside stripes denoted that the loco was not allowed south of Crewe after electrification. question is, Who where the stripes for? ie was it for signalmen, drivers, shed staff etc? or all of them? and is there a list of which locos carried them many thanks Mike Thinking about it logically the main reason was to remind footplate staff, and depot Foremen. Always a bit easy to overlook a restriction especially if it was a new one altering something you'd been doing for 20 odd years and - away you go with a 'Duchess' on an express to Euston. Yellow stripe on cabside stares enginemen in the face as they get on the loco and hopefully means something to them. Not I suspect for Signalmen although there was a faint possibility - if they could see the railway they controlled and the trains on it - that they could put a signal back to danger at the last minute but that was hardly a reliable or safe way to operate any sort of safety restriction. And clearly not there to remind enginemen they were underneath 25kv ohle as they had already been running around under it for a year or three and were continuing to do so for a few years to come on locos that didn't have the yellow stripe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cb900f Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I would have thought that the small Rectangular white plate with the red lightning flash placed at relevant points on the loco would have been for the benefit of the fireman and other associated staff when climbing up and around the loco I agree with Pennine but I guess it must have been for the local operational staff (shedmaster etc ) as the admin rostering the locos could be some distance away and must have had a list of the restricted locos instead, Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Pannier Tank Posted January 3, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 3, 2011 Not sure when the ban started, the Duchesses had the stripe applied whilst still working under the wires south of Crewe. I remember my favourite loco 46245 City of London so adorned at Bletchley (probably circa 1964). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Singpoint Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Doesnt that kinda miss the point? I'm open to correction, but I understood the stripe was an operational/administrative device to identify certain classes prohibited from working over lines that were subject to tighter OHLE clearances - if the stripe 'worked' as it should, then that possibility wouldnt arise You are correct. The issue being the reduced contact wire height at certain over bridges that weren't raised. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 3, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2011 Hi chaps I know that the yellow cabside stripes denoted that the loco was not allowed south of Crewe after electrification. question is, Who where the stripes for? ie was it for signalmen, drivers, shed staff etc? or all of them? and is there a list of which locos carried them many thanks Mike Great Central Railwayana Auctions had this lot in their last postal sale:- "1162 Locos Prohibited for Electric Lines South of Crewe, Painting of Cabsides (yellow stripe), diagram of the cab/tender of each class showing where to paint the line, in relation to the number of the engine, 7P, 4F, 8P, 6P, 7F, Drawing Office Derby undated, folded & a few nicks but unusual." This would seem to include Royal Scot & Rebuilt Patriot/Jubliee, Fowler 0-6-0, Coronation, Jubilee and LNWR 0-8-0. The last three Stanier 8F locos also carried stripes, but 48773 should not have done as it didn't have the large topfeed that the other two carried. I have seen pictures of WD 2-8-0s with a yellow stripe but am not sure if this was correct. I have also seen reports of some LNER types getting cab stripes in Scotland, but have nothing to hand show this actually happened. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Great Central Railwayana Auctions had this lot in their last postal sale:- "1162 Locos Prohibited for Electric Lines South of Crewe, Painting of Cabsides (yellow stripe), diagram of the cab/tender of each class showing where to paint the line, in relation to the number of the engine, 7P, 4F, 8P, 6P, 7F, Drawing Office Derby undated, folded & a few nicks but unusual." This would seem to include Royal Scot & Rebuilt Patriot/Jubliee, Fowler 0-6-0, Coronation, Jubilee and LNWR 0-8-0. Yes, there are quite a few photos of engines in all of those classes with yellow stripes. (And standard Jubilees as well.) The last three Stanier 8F locos also carried stripes, but 48773 should not have done as it didn't have the large topfeed that the other two carried. I have seen pictures of WD 2-8-0s with a yellow stripe but am not sure if this was correct. As far as I know, the only 8F to carry stripes was 48773 and, as you say, that was a mistake. 48775 definitely didn't have them, but I can't find a photo of 48774 to be sure about that one. I have also seen reports of some LNER types getting cab stripes in Scotland, but have nothing to hand show this actually happened. Here's a selection of ex-LNER engines with stripes, plus a Clan. There may have been more LNER Pacifics, but these are the ones I know of. 60027, 60031, 60041, 60052, 60100, 60512, 60535, 72006 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 The stripes appeared overnight virtually during August 1964. I'm not sure but I imagine this came about as a result of the energisation, at that time, of the section concerned. The ScR locos mentioned were machines that were known to run regularly into Carlisle and as a result, it had to be taken into account that they could potentially be 'borrowed' for more distant turns whilst lying over at Kingmoor. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I seem to recall that some ex-GWR types e.g. 78xx Manor class from sheds such as Shrewsbury that turned up at barry for scrapping had an archway built on the tender front apparently as a warning for the fireman in respect of the OHLE Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 4, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2011 I seem to recall that some ex-GWR types e.g. 78xx Manor class from sheds such as Shrewsbury that turned up at barry for scrapping had an archway built on the tender front apparently as a warning for the fireman in respect of the OHLE Brian R It was done on low tenders where it was easy to scramble straight in and over the top of the coal (usually to pull coal forward) but I'm fairly sure it wasn't anything like universal and only appeared on locos likely to work in under ohle (as, of course, some 'Manors' and 63XX regularly would). I've an idea it might be related to some sort of incident involving staff injury but am far from certain on that point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
great central Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I seem to recall having read somewhere that, on at least one occasion, train crew forgot the overhead with the inevitable consequences. On a lighter note I spent ages carefully removing the factory applied yellow stripe on a Bachmann re-buit 'Jube' only to then come across this picture: http://christopher8062.fotopic.net/p61890284.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 4, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2011 [/left] As far as I know, the only 8F to carry stripes was 48773 and, as you say, that was a mistake. 48775 definitely didn't have them, but I can't find a photo of 48774 to be sure about that one. Thanks for correcting me there. I have just found another picture of 48775 in 1968 48775 at Man Vic [/left] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 Im wondering if duke of gloucester would have carried a stripe had it survived in service? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Richard E Posted January 5, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 5, 2011 I know this replicates some of what has already been said but I hope it adds a bit more info: Following the energisation of overhead catenary on the West Coast Main Line south of Crewe (where the wires had been installed to clear 13ft 1ins loading gauge instead of the normal 13ft 6ins height gauge) diagonal yellow stripes were painted across the cabside of locomotives denoting their prohibition from working in electrified areas. The relaxation in clearance was permitted by the Minister of Transport to avoid the costly programme of rebuilding certain bridges and tunnels. Some of the classes prohibited included: 'Royal Scots'; 'Patriots'; 'Jubilees'; Class 4F, 7Fs and 'Coronation' Pacifics which carried the compulsory cabside stripe. The engines permitted to work in electrifies areas had their smokebox door lamp bracket moved to a lower position to prevent locomen climbing up to chimney height in the vicinity of the 25kV overhead wires. The official ban south of Crewe began on September 1st 1964. I can also find reference to the WD 2-8-0 and LMS Fowler 4F (I assume this is the 4F referred to in the quote) being banned from under the wires. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 and A3 and A4's. so has anyone ever drawn up a list of which particular locos carried them? Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 nice shot of a 4f with cabside stripe http://geoff-plumb.fotopic.net/p62523625.html Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 so has anyone ever drawn up a list of which particular locos carried them? Mike Are you volunteering, Mike ? I don't know of any overall list. There are probably lists of some individual classes, but even detailed books like Irwell's "Book of the Jubilee 4-6-0s" don't give this information. I think the hardest class to find out about would probably be the 4Fs - there are enough photographs of the LMS express passenger classes to make pretty definitive lists for them, and the numbers of Super Ds, ex-LNER engines and 'oddballs' that got stripes are small enough that it should be possible to identify all of them. However, in 1964 there were still quite a few 4Fs around, they were still quite widely distributed and in some out-of-the-way places, they didn't attract the same attention as the big passenger classes, and not all of them got the stripes before withdrawal anyway. (Now watch someone post a full list on here!) In the class of 'oddballs', here's a WD at Lostock Hall shed with a stripe (about a third of the way down the page). This engine had a Western Region type topfeed - there's a topic about this type of engine on here, and a reference there to a topic on an earlier version of RMweb. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 theres some nice footage of quite a few 4fs with yellow stripes here. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/28044-superb-archive-steam-footage/ I imagine that WD had it because of the top feed Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS2968 Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 [/left] Yes, there are quite a few photos of engines in all of those classes with yellow stripes. (And standard Jubilees as well.) As far as I know, the only 8F to carry stripes was 48773 and, as you say, that was a mistake. 48775 definitely didn't have them, but I can't find a photo of 48774 to be sure about that one. Here's a selection of ex-LNER engines with stripes, plus a Clan. There may have been more LNER Pacifics, but these are the ones I know of. 60027, 60031, 60041, 60052, 60100, 60512, 60535, 72006 [/left] There was another 8F which acquired the stripe, undoubtedly in error. The 8F Locomotive society is investigating. As to the last three (numerically) 8Fs 8773-5, they were fitted with enlarged top feed apparatus during their years in the Middle East, and this raised their height. 8775 did not receive the stripe: possibly her tyres were worn taking her below the height limit, but 8773 got it - and not by mistake. In 1966, she was overhauled at Crewe, where she received a replacement boiler with standard top feed. At that point the stripe should have been painted out but wasn't, and that was the mistake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 theres some nice footage of quite a few 4fs with yellow stripes here. http://www.rmweb.co....-steam-footage/ I imagine that WD had it because of the top feed Mike Hi Mike, you're right about the topfeed, WDs were well within the height limit for electric lines but not if fitted with a Western region topfeed as the one shown at Wakefield. (one of mine is to have this fitting, eventually). The yellow striped 4Fs in the 'movies' all had tall chimneys and if I remember correctly I read that BR gave up working out which ones had tall chimneys and/or domes and just banned the lot of them, they were being quickly withdrawn in any case. The LMS 8Fs that had WD topfeeds 48773-5 were sent to Glasgow for the new iron ore workings for the just opened Ravenscraig steelworks. The locos were bought from the government after being returned from the Middle East and were thought to be WDs and were even numbered in the WD series but before they left the works they assumed the correct identities. 48773 did receive a standard boiler around 1966 so the stripe should have been removed as has been said. I thought I'd seen a photo of 48775 with a stripe after it had been transfered down south but I may be wrong. Regards to all, Dave Franks, www.lanarkshiremodels.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Im wondering if duke of gloucester would have carried a stripe had it survived in service? No. The DoG was built to the BR Standard loading gauge. It was,after all, just an enlarged Brit using a Brit boiler with a bigger firebox and consequently longer wb. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted June 9, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 9, 2011 going a bit OT but related, were there any similar restrictions regarding steam locos in the glasgow area? when the suburban electrification was first installed there were stretches of 6.25kv due to OHLE clearance issues, but perhaps the 'loading gauge' for rolling stock was unaffected? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I am not aware that there were any restrictions on the 6.25kV lines as there were several other places where that was used because of limited clearances. The equipment was subsequently redsigned to allow 25kV to be used. There were always 'Route Availability' restrictions for certain locos over certain lines which may have covered some of the 6.25kV lines. The yellow stripe was a reminder for train crews (who should have been aware anyway from reding their 'Daily Notices' at signing-on points) that those particular locos were over height. I always thought that the height restriction actually applied south of Stafford because everything was running under the live OHE between Crewe and Stafford until it was energised south thereof and that Crewe was an easier place to apply the restriction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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