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Manchester Central, CLC & GN Warehouses & Castlefield Viaducts


Ron Heggs
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Hi, All

 

Thanks for your patience - I'm still here - just about

 

The past couple of months have been physically hectic - reforming the villa to an open plan living/dining/kitchen area from a separate kitchen/living-dining room and enclosed sun-room - involving removal walls, installing steel beams, raising the sun-room floor, installing new electrics and plumbing, underfloor heating and now on to the complete re-tiling of the floors, and awaiting fitting of new windows - all work done by myself

 

This has left me *******ed, and no time or in a reasonable mental state to do any modelling - but come the end of this month I should be back to normal again - awaiting the spanish builder to do the underbuild/railway room

 

Cheers

 

Ron

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Given the economic climate, one would have thought they'd be beating a path to your door to do the work.....

 

They still have the whole of August on Holiday/Not working, as it is usually too hot for any outdoor building activity (40 deg C + in the shade) - and the builders merchants, etc. also close for the same period

 

So us canny DIY'ers make sure all the required materials are pre-ordered and to hand, so that we can continue are 'mad dog' pursuits throughout August

 

Everything then restarts in September - Builders, etc. and the grape harvest starts for the wine production - Yes !!

 

Cheers

 

Ron

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August in Spain sounds like January in Australia!

 

I have just had to wait for supplies from the Czech Republic because the August holidays are marked in indelible ink on the calendar... apparently. All we get is one Wednesday for the local agricultural show!

 

Good to hear from you again. I thought we had lost this one. Crack the whip over your Spanish builders - we need more photos!

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  • 3 weeks later...

I thought these shots of Whitworth st in the 1960s may be of interest..

 

http://edwardbeck.we...om/owecoltd.htm

Hi, Michael

 

Thank you very much for the link - these pictures will certainly help in detailing the viaduct at this point along Whitworth Street West, with a good picture of the overhanging turntable handrailing, and the rear of the Signal Box

 

Apparently, this part of Whitworth Street West was used on many occasions by heavy haulage companies for temporary parking whilst waiting for the rush hour traffic to subside so that they could proceed via Salford to Liverpool Docks

 

Cheers

 

Ron

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just when I thought I could really get back into modelling again, comes the GOOD NEWS/BAD NEWS

 

GOOD NEWS

 

Builder is starting the underbuild restructuring for the railway room at the end of October

- demolishing internal walls

- constructing buttress/columns for the supporting structural steel

Structural Steel Supplier/Installer on site Mid November

Builder laying new concrete floor with suitable insulation and dampproof membrane

 

BAD NEWS

 

Modelling has come to a halt until the beginning of December - All the modelling tables/modelling materials/models, including all those models/structures under construction are now boxed and stored away in my workshop, which is full to the gunnels - some have even been consigned to the summerhouse, suitable protected against dust, wind, heat and the possibility of dampness

 

There is just nowhere left to even attempt a modelling session - although thinking about it I might just be able to put a modelling board on top of the kitchen cupboards, and the model and modelling materials under the bed - Will need Management's permission and a promise not to vacuum under the bed, when the model, etc. is there

 

WHAT WILL I DO WITH MYSELF NOW FOR THE NEXT TWO MONTHS ?

 

- Reroute services in the underbuild before the builder starts - Soil/Waste pipes, water pipes, heating pipes, electrical cabling - some permanently, others temporarily to be re-instated after the builder has finished

- Plan locations for new electrical outlets in floor/walls & overhead

- Plan locations and select type of lighting

- Plan locations for central heating radiators, air conditioning and dehumidifier units

- Sort out the wall insulation/lining, etc.

- Check & order required modelling materials for the forthcoming builds

- Design the baseboard structure, cabling routes and control locations

- Design the entrance/exit of the railway to/from the railway room to/from the garden - level differences, weatherproof doors and canopy, etc. - 5 tracks to be accommodated and the 4.5m long Castlefield Viaduct

 

Will I post during this period - Yes - Comments on my baseboard structure, etc. will be welcomed

 

Cheers

 

Ron

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LAYOUT BASE DESIGN

 

The layout is a complete scale model of Manchester Central Station, CLC Goods Warehouse & Yard and GNR Deansgate Goods Warehouse & Yard including the approach viaducts through Castlefield

 

post-10633-0-21820500-1348758519_thumb.jpg

 

As luck would have it, the layout will just fit within the confines of our villa’s underbuild, once the internal walls are removed and structural beams installed (October/November this year)

 

The layout frames will be arranged in a tapering fashion and through almost 90 deg. The main area tapers from 4.3m to 2.3m in width over 5.3m in length followed at approx. right angles by a tapered section 1.5m to 0.5m in width over a length of 4.5m

 

Part of the main area, some 1.2m wide by 5.0m long will be arranged to be pivoted or detachable to allow access to the central portion of the main area

 

In addition, the internal area of the train shed, approx. 2.0m x 0.8m will also be designed to be capable of being lowered to give access to the tracks/platforms under the train shed roof which will be too large to be safely removed

 

The rail tracks are roughly horizontal, subject to a small number of gradient changes in the region of 1:100. An exception is in the access tracks to the lower level of the Deansgate Warehouse Goods Yard where the gradient is 1:28 (Yes, they really were that steep)

 

However, whilst the tracks are all carried on viaducts and bridges of one form or another, the land and roads lie at various levels and with varying gradients. This lends the design of the base frames to be of an open egg crate form, with the tracks and trackboards built up off the base, with the land forms and roads, etc. also built upwards as required (An extreme example of differences in level occurs beneath the Castlefield Viaducts where the tracks are elevated above the canal basins by some 230mm). This approach enables access to all structures and track from below, without any enclosed voids

 

Height of tracks above floor level will be in the order of 1.2m, which means the top of the base frames will be 1.0m. Plenty of room to access the underside when required

 

The present garden ground level at the point where the tracks exit from the railway room is 1.2m above the finished railway room floor level, so a little ground excavation will be required to enable the Castlefield Viaduct to be installed at the appropriate elevation

 

One of the main design points to be addressed is the way in which the exit into the garden will be sealed against weather and pests when the railway is not operational, noting that the Castlefield Viaduct starts 1.5m inside and continues a further 3.0m outdoors – How can it be divided complete with tracks to enable the door/partition to be closed, and easily re-instated for operation ? A possible answer is a complete lift-out section between pairs of support stanchions/piers

 

Material & General Frame Design

The base framing will be built using external grade 10mm plywood, 2500mm x 1220mm

 

It is anticipated that the plywood frames would be designed with 400mm x 400mm box sections 100mm deep, this will enable a maximum frame size of 2400mm x 1200mm

 

One box frame 2400mm x 1200mm can be made from -

7 off - 1200mm long x 100mm deep

4 off – 2400mm long x 100mm deep

 

Each sheet produces –

24 x 1220mm long x 100mm deep

or

12 x 2500mm long x 100mm deep

 

2 sheets produce 3 frames 1200mm x 2400mm plus 6 ply sections 1220mm x 100mm

 

Main Area

4 sheets will produce the equivalent of 6 frames 1200mm x 2400mm = 17.28m2

 

Narrow Area

1 sheet will produce the equivalent of 11/2 frames = 4.32m2

 

5 sheets will almost complete the base frame – 8 sheets are available in the workshop. The remaining sheets will be used to fabricate the legs, which will be located generally at 800mm centres

 

Typical box section arrangement –

 

post-10633-0-74264600-1348757868_thumb.png

 

As this is the first layout I will have built any comments are welcome

 

Cheers

 

Ron

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As this is the first layout I will have built any comments are welcome

 

 

Nice to see it all in context Ron, I'm sure all the building hassles will be worth it. This must be one of the biggest 'first layouts' of all time, but I don't doubt you can do it based on your work so far.

 

I'm sure you've mentioned it at some point, but what time period are you modelling and what track standards are you using?

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Nice to see it all in context Ron, I'm sure all the building hassles will be worth it. This must be one of the biggest 'first layouts' of all time, but I don't doubt you can do it based on your work so far.

 

I'm sure you've mentioned it at some point, but what time period are you modelling and what track standards are you using?

 

 

Time Period approx. 1955 to 1967

Track Standards - OO gauge

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Looking at the floor plan, can see access to some places will be tight, but where will your access to the basement be? I can understand the use of laminated girders for exibition layouts, but for a home layout would''t ensuring maximum resisting to temperature variations and warping be more important?

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Your first layout!!! :O And you even contemplated EM / P4 at one stage! You are right to stick with OO in this case!

 

Hope the building work on your house goes well.

It's taken me almost 70 years to get to this layout build, so I hope I now have the knowledge and experienced help from many of you to get this first layout built and working satisfactorily - Thanks

 

Ron

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Looking at the floor plan, can see access to some places will be tight, but where will your access to the basement be? I can understand the use of laminated girders for exibition layouts, but for a home layout would''t ensuring maximum resisting to temperature variations and warping be more important?

The drawing below shows the access points to the railway room

post-10633-0-80435000-1348948195_thumb.jpg

Because of split levels the access from the apartment is up three steps to the railway room floor level, and the access from the garden/workshop is down 5 steps. Both sets of steps are within the railway room

 

Temperature variations in the underbuild are extremely limited - seasonal variations summer/winter are less than 10 deg C - and will be reduced by the installation of insulated flooring and walls, and further controlled by air-conditioning. Humidity will also be controlled by dehumidifiers and ventilation

 

There is no natural light within the underbuild, so lighting will be a major design choice

 

The base will be anchored via the support legs to the floor, so acting as vertical restraints to prevent uncontrolled warping

 

Ron

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Having just found this thread from a link on the Scalefour forum, I've spent the last couple of hours reading the whole thing and I take my hat off to you Ron, this is THE most amazing styrene work I have ever seen...

 

John

Hi, John

 

Thanks for your interest, comments, and patience

 

Cheers

Ron

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  • 2 weeks later...

Fantastic workmanship Ron.

 

Have decided my initial attempts at N guage buildings dont cut the mustard after seeing you work.

 

Can i ask how you work out your dimensions from pictures, i assume you work from photographs?

 

Ian

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Fantastic workmanship Ron.

 

Have decided my initial attempts at N guage buildings dont cut the mustard after seeing you work.

 

Can i ask how you work out your dimensions from pictures, i assume you work from photographs?

 

Ian

Hi, Ian

 

Thanks

 

Don't give up after your initial attempts - we all need to make a number of constructions to gain experience and hone our abilities - and make a few mistakes/errors which are all part of the learning process

 

Scaling from photographs needs at least one known object dimension

- brickbuilt structures can be scaled using brick dimensions

- steel structures from standard steel sizes, although early wrought iron structures were made from rivetted non-standard steel sections

- Normal door heights of 6'6" or 2 metres, again some of the architectural doors on stations could be up to 9 foot high

- don't forget, if the photo includes people the average height of men is 5' 9" and women 5' 0" in the 1950's, which increases by about half an inch with each generation

- the photos may include builldings which still exist so dimensions could be obtained by site measurement, and then transferred to the non-existent

 

Cheers

 

Ron

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  • RMweb Premium

 

Hi, Ian

 

Thanks

 

Don't give up after your initial attempts - we all need to make a number of constructions to gain experience and hone our abilities - and make a few mistakes/errors which are all part of the learning process

 

Scaling from photographs needs at least one known object dimension

- brickbuilt structures can be scaled using brick dimensions

- steel structures from standard steel sizes, although early wrought iron structures were made from rivetted non-standard steel sections

- Normal door heights of 6'6" or 2 metres, again some of the architectural doors on stations could be up to 9 foot high

- don't forget, if the photo includes people the average height of men is 5' 9" and women 5' 0" in the 1950's, which increases by about half an inch with each generation

- the photos may include builldings which still exist so dimensions could be obtained by site measurement, and then transferred to the non-existent

 

Cheers

 

Ron

 

Another scaling feature that;s useful is cars. Lancasters building swere initially scaled from the Mark 1 Cortina parked in front of the station.

 

Jamie

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