Manchester Central, CLC & GN Warehouses & Castlefield Viaducts

[Ron Heggs]

After taking a long look at the etches, have come to the conclusion that the first section to be built should be the viaduct deck. The construction is the simplest, and will allow me to gain experience with soldering brass using the new temperature controlled soldering station

 

The deck comprises 22 deck beams with interspaced beams providing support under the track rail centres, above the deck plating. There is plenty of T and L rivetted detail to produce. So the rivetting detail will be the first task. Need to produce the rivet punch using info. kindly provided by jamie92208 - Lancaster Ayre Green

 

CAD representation of underside of deck

 

 

[artizen]

If you are allowed to read this thread without being a member, there is a wealth of information in amongst all the chat about riveting and cutting metal and plastics using handmade tools,

 

http://ngrm-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/4348-portable-and-foldable-132-scale-layout/page-207

[acko22]

Hi Ron,

 

Again all I can say is amazing!

 

I was in Manchester today and parked in the old warehouse, and you really get a feel for what you are looking a achieve when you walk around the place now! The fact you have really got it in detail is just amazing I am to young to even remember Central as a derelict car park but you really do get a feeling of awe when you look at the real thing now and then at the layout in the pics! 

[Ron Heggs]

Managed to punch just short of 1500 rivets in 2¹/₂ hours today - only another 50,000+ to go   - need to make some adjustments to the drop punch to speed up the operation

 

Will start the construction/soldering of a couple of deck beams tomorrow to check fits and determine the best order of assembly

 

Pictures tomorrow

[Ron Heggs]

Progress with the soldering trial is at a stop - definitely no pictures

 

Whilst small details can be soldered successfully, the larger linear joints are a non-starter due to the heat required to maintain a running solder joint

 

Need to obtain solder paste and a small blowlamp to provide and sustain a greater heat transfer and tighter control of the solder application

 

-

 

Managed to order the 00-SF track & check gauges yesterday, they should be with me sometime within the next couple of weeks

 

-

 

Producing a few more 3D CAD designs for various detailing items - this mornings work

 

The 'tricky' fixing of the overspan and windbracing to the train shed will be tackled this afternoon

 

Printing of additional brickwork detailing for the GN Junction walling and the Train Shed walls will be carried out tonight

[jrg1]

I would recommend a GW Models Rivet Press and a London Road Models Resistance Soldering Iron for this-the best products I have used for the applications

[freebs]

That is a mighty piece of kit! wow!

[Pete Harvey]

Solder paste and an electric Hot Air paint stripper gun works just as well as a blow torch and it's a lot safer and quicker.

 

(cheaper to operate too)

 

Pete

[Ron Heggs]

Solder paste and an electric Hot Air paint stripper gun works just as well as a blow torch and it's a lot safer and quicker.

 

(cheaper to operate too)

 

Pete

 

Hi, Pete

 

Have ordered a jeweller's butane torch and solder paste on-line - these should go some way to resolving the soldering issues. The use of a hot air paint stripper is still an available option, and can be purchased locally

 

Ron

[Siberian Snooper]

Hi, Pete

 

Have ordered a jeweller's butane torch and solder paste on-line - these should go some way to resolving the soldering issues. The use of a hot air paint stripper is still an available option, and can be purchased locally

 

Ron

The hot air paint stripper is certainly useful if it all goes badly wrong, I have used mine to dis-assemble brass kits without to much collateral damage.

[GJChurchward]

I would recommend a GW Models Rivet Press and a London Road Models Resistance Soldering Iron for this-the best products I have used for the applicationsGW Models Rivet Press.JPG

 

Ron,

 

I've been wondering whether to add my piece here, since several others agree that the use of a rivet press is a good idea.  However, if you have, as I assume, had the rivet positions half-etched, then a drop punch may be a quicker method.  I have found that when using a rivet press, I have to make sure the punch is correctly located in the recess before making the impression, and this means gently pressing the job upwards against the punch with one hand while gingerly bringing the punch and job downwards to meet the die with the other.  The rivet press technique is better when no half-etching has been done, using the indexing table to position each rivet.

 

Andy

[jrg1]

Ron,

 

I've been wondering whether to add my piece here, since several others agree that the use of a rivet press is a good idea.  However, if you have, as I assume, had the rivet positions half-etched, then a drop punch may be a quicker method.  I have found that when using a rivet press, I have to make sure the punch is correctly located in the recess before making the impression, and this means gently pressing the job upwards against the punch with one hand while gingerly bringing the punch and job downwards to meet the die with the other.  The rivet press technique is better when no half-etching has been done, using the indexing table to position each rivet.

 

Andy

I have a drop press and a GW press.  The GW press is vastly superior to the drop press; it also has male and female dies to easily locate rivet position, and for lines of rivets, has slide and cross-slide for spot-on pressing.  My drop press has been relegated to marking out hole centres for drilling.  The GW rolling mill is another superb engineering tool-and I stress engineering.

[Ron Heggs]

I must thank everyone for their recommendations and comments (Likes/Agrees/etc.) on rivetting tools. All are much appreciated

 

Have stuck with my home-built drop rivet press, because I'm making good progress with the rivets. This is only a part-time operation, and should be complete by next weekend 

 

Most of my time is being taken up with the Train Shed overspan ties and windbracing. I found it to be impractical to fix these whilst stretching over the roof, so have resorted to fixing from below, within the roof structure which is a bit fiddly (sat on the bar stool, neck bent backwards, and hands above my head for minutes at a time), feeding the curved ties through the structure, and requiring the use of long tweezers and small weighted clamps to hold the styrene in place whilst the adhesive dries. A very slow process, but working well, and should also be completed by weekend

 

Ron

[Ron Heggs]

Pictures of the first of the three sections of overspan ties and windbracing linking the the three roof sections and gable ends  -

 

Ties, etc. are white styrene - to be painted later

 

The apex steam and smoke vent will be extended when the structure is complete

 

The small cantilever braces still to be fitted

 

The modeller's view from chest level

 

- it's back to the bar stool for the next link section

[d winpenny]

Absolutely magnificent

 

David

[Jamiel]

Wow, I thought the bottom image was of the real thing to compare to, before I realised that the breeze blocks were not panels on the rebuilt place.

Quite superb modelling, thank you for continuing to share images of this fantastic layout, and its progress.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Jamiel

[GJChurchward]

I have a drop press and a GW press.  The GW press is vastly superior to the drop press; it also has male and female dies to easily locate rivet position, and for lines of rivets, has slide and cross-slide for spot-on pressing.  My drop press has been relegated to marking out hole centres for drilling.  The GW rolling mill is another superb engineering tool-and I stress engineering.

This has now become 'off-topic', since Ron has decided to continue with using his drop press.  However, I would be interested to know how to get better performance from my rivet press.  Mine is not that from GW Models, the quality of which I am sure is unequalled.  I do have a rolling mill from the same stable, and I fully agree with your comment about it.  I purchased a press tool for other purposes, and a set of rivet punches and dies was an optional accessory which I decided to have in order to speed up the pressing of half-etched rivets in brass kits.  I was disappointed with the results for various reasons, some of which were due to my lack of experience with the technique, and perhaps I am now able to produce better rivets.  I have great difficulty producing a straight line of rivets, since the half-etched recess is invariably too wide to be an accurate location for the tip of the punch.  The width of the recess determines the diameter of the rivet head.  If I place the tip of a punch into the recess, it's not guaranteed to be in the centre.  Hence the line of recesses is nice and straight, but my line of rivets is not.  Although my rivet press is inferior to the GW Models press, this problem seems more dependent on the process than its execution.  Please tell me what I am doing wrong!

 

Andy

[Ron Heggs]

Wow, I thought the bottom image was of the real thing to compare to, before I realised that the breeze blocks were not panels on the rebuilt place.

 

Quite superb modelling, thank you for continuing to share images of this fantastic layout, and its progress.

 

... and the clocks are missing, as well as the roof cladding/glazing

 

Thanks

 

Ron

 

PS. these remaining breeze blocks will soon disappear - covered by the final section of foam panel lining - temperature is now stabilized at 19 deg C, and a relative humidity of 48% (outdoors it is 15 deg C daytime and 8 deg at night)

[Ron Heggs]

The 00-SF track/check gauges from C+L, turned up this morning, so trackwork will commence again next week

[Ron Heggs]

.... I have great difficulty producing a straight line of rivets, since the half-etched recess is invariably too wide to be an accurate location for the tip of the punch.  The width of the recess determines the diameter of the rivet head.  If I place the tip of a punch into the recess, it's not guaranteed to be in the centre.  Hence the line of recesses is nice and straight, but my line of rivets is not

 

Hi, Andy

 

I know that you are stuck with the size of the recess being slightly larger than the punch tip, which is something I anticipated when I designed my bridge etches - the recess sizes are just 75% of the actual required rivet size, and the punch tip has been ground to match

 

Is it possible to locate the punch tip always to one and the same side of the recesses each time to try and maintain a straight line of rivets ?

 

Ron

[hayfield]

 

The 00-SF track/check gauges from C+L, turned up this morning, so trackwork will commence again next week

 

 

 

Ron

 

That's good and I will look forward to seeing the build.

 

I think this has been covered in a previous post, in case it has not or for new readers Gordon S does some beautiful trackwork using this gauge in copperclad, as the flexi track is in 16.5 gauge he only uses 16.2 at the common crossing, then having a transition length both sides of the common crossing back to 16.5 gauge to match the flexi track. Gordon S has a good diagram showing this. However I guess when building complexes he keeps to 00sf within the complex and the transisions to 16.5 is only where it joins the flexitrack.

 

Secondly I have noticed you use chaired track, which I guess is either C&L or Exactoscale. Do you use the Exactoscale additional chairs ? 

[Ron Heggs]

Ron

 

That's good and I will look forward to seeing the build.

 

I think this has been covered in a previous post, in case it has not or for new readers Gordon S does some beautiful trackwork using this gauge in copperclad, as the flexi track is in 16.5 gauge he only uses 16.2 at the common crossing, then having a transition length both sides of the common crossing back to 16.5 gauge to match the flexi track. Gordon S has a good diagram showing this. However I guess when building complexes he keeps to 00sf within the complex and the transisions to 16.5 is only where it joins the flexitrack.

 

Secondly I have noticed you use chaired track, which I guess is either C&L or Exactoscale. Do you use the Exactoscale additional chairs ? 

 

Hi, John

 

 

The complete approach trackwork into the Train Shed from the viaducts is one complex unit, and will be built entirely to 00-SF. Platform roads, carriage and goods sidings may be built to 16.2 gauge also

 

Besides the standard and sliding 3 bolt chairs, the Exactoscale check rail chairs are used, cut to provide the 1mm check gap

 

Ron

[Ron Heggs]

Completed the second link section of ties and windbracing yesterday, then started on linking the south end gable/transom, and disaster

 

Eleven of the seventeen transverse tie beams which should link to the gable/transom shattered as the solvent was brushed on the joint to the gable span - the gable span remains unaffected. This does happen very occasionally with new styrene strip, but never before on older styrene. This means that another eleven tie beams need to be made to replace the damaged ones - don't want to risk doing a repair job

 

Took time out, before tackling the replacement transverse tie beams, to produce a mock-up of the roof cladding and glazing. The glazed sections occupy just over 55% of the roof cover. The strip lighting in the railway room is fortunately directly over the centre of the roof. Visibility under the roof cladding, etc. is very good, enabling all the roof structure detail to be viewed easily from below (platform level), and with clear (not frosted/weathered) glazing also allowing good views of the platforms, etc. from above - much better than the prototype ever was

 

Now have the design of the cladding and glazing to detail, and work up a construction method - timber planking with bitumen felt cover (never worried about the fire risk)

 

Have also been testing one of my laptops with 6 webcams attached, just to prove that good views of the platforms/track/concourse, etc. will be possible from within

[jamie92208]

Masking tape makes a good representation of roofing felt.  I used it on a smaller scale on the waiting shelter for Long Preston.   I would have thought card of some kind, such as thin mounting board would do for the cladding.

 

Keep up the good work and sorry to hear about the shattering.

 

Jamie

[ozzyo]

Single ply tissue paper can work well to represent roofing felt, the last time I did it on plastcard I just used Mepack to fix it down. If you go down this route it maybe an idea to fit some on the inside as well.

 

Sorry to hear about the shattering, any ideas what may have caused it (to hot to cold Etc.), have you any photos to show what has happened?

 

OzzyO.