the penguin of doom Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Rob. You have a PM. Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed-farms Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I have just read this thread with great interest after reading DapolDave's comment about wanting to still tackle DP2 to make the key decision of sticking with Heljan or cancel to get the (possible) Dapol model. I have studied the photo's from Tony M at Model Rail Scotland against the drawings and photo's in one of my brothers many 50 books and I think Heljan have got it nailed pretty much spot on. Only complaint I have is the red lights sticking out a bit too much on the nose ends. Suffice to say I will not be cancelling my order for the original green and my Dad will keep his 2 tone green version on order. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
40F Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 While DP2 looked like a Class 55 locomotive in outline, there were many detail differences; particularly the large bodyside radiator vents at one end, and the single roof fan as opposed to the four symmetrically placed fans on the Deltics. These differences revealed that DP2 was totally different from the twin-engined Deltics internally, having only a single prime mover and generator. The loco was later updated with electronic control systems to become the forerunner of the Class 50. Taken from the Google page Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluex5 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 While DP2 looked like a Class 55 locomotive in outline, there were many detail differences; particularly the large bodyside radiator vents at one end, and the single roof fan as opposed to the four symmetrically placed fans on the Deltics. These differences revealed that DP2 was totally different from the twin-engined Deltics internally, having only a single prime mover and generator. The loco was later updated with electronic control systems to become the forerunner of the Class 50. Taken from the Google page Unecessary copypasta, I think most folk posting in this thread know what DP2 is / was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aguila Wren Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 The headcode font will be correct on the production releases. That's good to hear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D605Eagle Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I have just read this thread with great interest after reading DapolDave's comment about wanting to still tackle DP2 to make the key decision of sticking with Heljan or cancel to get the (possible) Dapol model. I have studied the photo's from Tony M at Model Rail Scotland against the drawings and photo's in one of my brothers many 50 books and I think Heljan have got it nailed pretty much spot on. Only complaint I have is the red lights sticking out a bit too much on the nose ends. Suffice to say I will not be cancelling my order for the original green and my Dad will keep his 2 tone green version on order. Do you not think the cabs are wrong? All I can say is see one in the flesh before you choose to keep your order or not. Although I've not seen one in the flesh myself, two good friends who are both big deltic fans have and were both very dissapointed by the cabs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Do you not think the cabs are wrong? All I can say is see one in the flesh before you choose to keep your order or not. Although I've not seen one in the flesh myself, two good friends who are both big deltic fans have and were both very dissapointed by the cabs. Don't you think you should see it yourself then before advising other people? I'd be happier giving this advice if I'd seen it with my own eyes. Otherwise it's no better than repeating a story you heard from a bloke down the pub. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed-farms Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Do you not think the cabs are wrong? All I can say is see one in the flesh before you choose to keep your order or not. Although I've not seen one in the flesh myself, two good friends who are both big deltic fans have and were both very dissapointed by the cabs. I am still yet to see one in the flesh, but comparing the photos to the drawing it looks good enough for me. If Dapol did revive theirs it may be a different matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluex5 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I'd be happier giving this advice if I'd seen it with my own eyes. Otherwise it's no better than repeating a story you heard from a bloke down the pub. Dave. We have seen it Dave, thanks to some kind sould posting pics a page or two back. It's the wrong shape - the cab windows run parallel with the bodyside instead of tapering in towards the nose as per the prototype and Bachmann's attempt. It's not like the taper is so slight you'd struggle to notice it either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltic21 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 The "look" of a model is always a subjective issue,some people will want it accurate to 0.1mm, whereas some will be happy if it captures the "feel" of the loco. I try to take each model on it's own merits and will read others comments, but ultimately make up my own mind. However, with the photos posted of DP2 it is clear to me that the profile around the cab windows and bonnet top are wrong. i was really hoping that this was going to be a superb model, as i said previously, i was looking forward to another DP1, but Heljan have made a major boo-boo and i fear that it is too late to be rectified. You would hope that they do read these forums and take note of the feedack they recieve, but (of the top of my head) this is the 3rd significant release with major dimensional issues (33/0 & 86 before this). As someone has posted previously, you could arguably forgive an error on the roof, but to make an error on an area which is easily measureable is to me a schoolboy error. I will not be buying one of these models and i'm sure many people will hold back in the hope that the Dapol model is revived, DapolDave will have many pointers on how to improve if he does proceed!! To those who do buy, i hope you are happy with the model and fingers crossed Heljan will move away from the silly mistakes. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I'm looking back at my Locomotives Illustrated edition and the photographs of the Heljan DP1 - I have to respectively disagree with the posters above that the taper for the windows down to the nose isn't there. It most certainly is: but is more subtle than on the real thing, and that is down to, I feel, that the width of the cab across the windows is too wide. It's certainly not more than 0.1mm either side, but enough to make it look different to the preserved Deltics (light bulb shape comment probably well suited to the discrepancy). The taper, however, is definitely there. I'm fairly confident my money is going on one of these - it looks better than the Silver Fox kit for my money and particularly around the bogie and bodyside areas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwales Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I have just read this thread with great interest after reading DapolDave's comment about wanting to still tackle DP2 to make the key decision of sticking with Heljan or cancel to get the (possible) Dapol model. I have studied the photo's from Tony M at Model Rail Scotland against the drawings and photo's in one of my brothers many 50 books and I think Heljan have got it nailed pretty much spot on. Only complaint I have is the red lights sticking out a bit too much on the nose ends. Suffice to say I will not be cancelling my order for the original green and my Dad will keep his 2 tone green version on order. Hear Hear well said, I am looking forward to recieving my model in due course, funnily enough I was just looking at a photo taken by Gavin Morrisson of DP2 leaving Leeds Central and the nose does look ever so slightly different (wider?) to a Deltic, wouldn't it be ironic if Heljan have got it right after all. one in the eye for the doom and gloom merchants. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Piszczek Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Hear Hear well said, I am looking forward to recieving my model in due course, funnily enough I was just looking at a photo taken by Gavin Morrisson of DP2 leaving Leeds Central and the nose does look ever so slightly different (wider?) to a Deltic, wouldn't it be ironic if Heljan have got it right after all. one in the eye for the doom and gloom merchants. I believe we are starting to get a bit silly here. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that DP2's body was anything other than a production Deltic, modified for the alternate primer mover. It is wishful thinking to believe that somehow the cab taper was modified on the prototype and Heljan was clever enough to capture this subtle change on DP2. <ROTFLMAO> You don't have to see the model in the flesh to tell there are issues with the lack of cab taper. The photos posted of the model are more than sufficient to come to the conclusion that this area is off. The consensus with Heljan's Western having a misshapen brow came about well before the model was seen in the flesh, nothing really changed in that regard when you actually had one in your hands. "One in the eye for the doom and gloom merchants"? Really! Why does this have to be some kind of pissing match between those "defending the model" and those individuals pointing out where the locomotive is less than perfect? If you like it, buy it, if you don't, pass on this offering. One would hope there would be some maturity in this process. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed-farms Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I think it would be fair to say this model will "divide the camp" so to speak - some people will buy it and others won't touch it with a 10ft barge pole. Those who do buy will hopefully be happy with it and those that don't will hopefully get a model they are happy with from Dapol. Either way I am looking forward to mine arriving, putting a sound chip inside and running it on Leeds Weeklyn Hill at one of our up and coming shows and yes it will probably appear alongside a Bachmann Deltic or 2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
neal Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I saw the prototype today in Howes, and I must admit it looks fantastic. The ride height clearly sees the wheels set within the loco side/tumblehome, and the finish is superb. I asked about clearances and minimum radii. Staff suggested that it would negotiate 2nd radius curves, although it might struggle with rapid gradient changes due to minimal internal clearances (you may need to avoid Hornby elevated track ramps!) Apparently the internals have been pared to the bone to allow the wheels to fit inside the body sides. I still suspect that the cab is slightly 'fat' to assist with clearances, however in my opinion this deviation is more than compensated by the excellent side on view. If another manufacturer were to model this locomotive (or a Deltic or 37 for that matter), I wonder how they would engineer the chassis and body for the same effect. Apparently the ETA will now be April - I am about to pre-order one! N Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Otherwise it's no better than repeating a story you heard from a bloke down the pub. With mucho respect Dave, it *is* different. I'm sure we all have an idea whose judgment we'd trust on a given issue and whose we wouldnt. I agree with Pete, this is getting a tad silly. The process here, involving early assessment of shortcomings but without a model in front of us, is no different to any other model of recent years. Or is it? - do the mutterings of another manufacturer taking up the torch make a difference? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BR Blue Posted March 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 6, 2012 Hear Hear well said, I am looking forward to recieving my model in due course, funnily enough I was just looking at a photo taken by Gavin Morrisson of DP2 leaving Leeds Central and the nose does look ever so slightly different (wider?) to a Deltic, wouldn't it be ironic if Heljan have got it right after all. one in the eye for the doom and gloom merchants. Ian Sorry Ian but that is pushing the bounds of credibility. There is no way that DP2 was had a different body profile than a Deltic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D605Eagle Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Don't you think you should see it yourself then before advising other people? I'd be happier giving this advice if I'd seen it with my own eyes. Otherwise it's no better than repeating a story you heard from a bloke down the pub. Dave. Can you please explain whats wrong with advising somebody to see it in the flesh before jumping in? I didn't tell him not to buy it or anything. some people...I ask you.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D605Eagle Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I am still yet to see one in the flesh, but comparing the photos to the drawing it looks good enough for me. If Dapol did revive theirs it may be a different matter. Thats OK then Ed. As long as your happy, and as long as you realise I'm only trying to help, not dictate! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I saw the prototype today in Howes, and I must admit it looks fantastic. The ride height clearly sees the wheels set within the loco side/tumblehome, and the finish is superb. I asked about clearances and minimum radii. Staff suggested that it would negotiate 2nd radius curves, although it might struggle with rapid gradient changes due to minimal internal clearances (you may need to avoid Hornby elevated track ramps!) Apparently the internals have been pared to the bone to allow the wheels to fit inside the body sides. I still suspect that the cab is slightly 'fat' to assist with clearances, however in my opinion this deviation is more than compensated by the excellent side on view. If another manufacturer were to model this locomotive (or a Deltic or 37 for that matter), I wonder how they would engineer the chassis and body for the same effect. Apparently the ETA will now be April - I am about to pre-order one! N Thanks Neal nice to get some useful information might explain a few things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 @D605 Eagle. All I'm questioning is making a judgement before seeing the evidence for yourself. If you want to take someone else's word at face value then who am I to stop you? After all, that same bond of trust works at keeping our state's leaders in a job and out of jail very effectively. But I digress. Anybody noticed the very nice 'sit' of the model? Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 @D605 Eagle. All I'm questioning is making a judgement before seeing the evidence for yourself. If you want to take someone else's word at face value then who am I to stop you? After all, that same bond of trust works at keeping our state's leaders in a job and out of jail very effectively. Not that I'm questioning your friends' personal integrity, that's not the case, but their perception is something unique to them and might not be the same as yours in its finer points. That's all I'm saying. Don't base your own appraisal on somebody else's assesent without first seeing it for yourself. In the flesh, rather than photographed in a glass case which would almost certainly cause its own problems. Then if you don't like it, keep your hand in your pocket. Don't count on Dapol coming to the rescue though. I doubt the market would support two models of a one off. There again, there is the small matter of the 10000...But I digress. Anybody noticed the very nice 'sit' of the model? Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D605Eagle Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 How can just advising somebody to look before they jump in have anything to do with the way this countries leaders keep their jobs is totally lost on me. I've seen the pictures, I've spoke to those in the know, I've just said take a look. THAT IS ALL. nothing more, nothing less. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 You've seen the pictures. You haven't seen the model. Just sayin'... Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Sorry guys, I'll repeat what I said earlier and what Pete said - this is getting daft. Some folk *can* perceive things better than others from pics, but this gainsaying is goin' nowhere fast. Don't count on Dapol coming to the rescue though. I doubt the market would support two models of a one off.There again, there is the small matter of the 10000...But I digress. Well, Dapol will do what Dapol will do. Whether it's a good use of resources from our POV is another matter of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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