AllScales Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Hi All, Over a few pints of ale, a friend and I started to talk about building a layout for the completely non-existent Orpington & Downe Tramway. So far we've got: Small size and modular: 3 boards, Orpington (main depot), Farnborough (passing loop and works train storage) and Downe (very simple terminus). Avoid scratch build as much possible So we looked at the Peco and Branchlines kits, as that is really the only option at first sight. Not having built rolling stock before (nor O-16.5) we have a couple of questions: What is the minimum radius one of the Peco/Branchlines loco's can do? How long are these loco's? What about the Branchlines Clogher Valley coaches? What length/minimum radius do they have? Who other than Peco sells ready made O-16.5 points (with smaller radius) Any other suppliers of O-16.5 gear that isn't listed on the 7mmnga web-site? The Peco body kits require soldering, I guess a normal soldering iron won't do??? For the most part this is intended to be a fun layout (I'll never commit to creating an exhibition layout). Thanks for any advice, Friso Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted January 6, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 6, 2011 A few pints of ale is always a good place to start Sorry I can't answer some of your questions but I am pleased that you have already discovered the 7mmNGA site. A couple of obvious omissions from the list on the 'links' page are Port Wynnstay Models (Phil Traxson is often here on RMweb) and also Smallbrook Studios. Have a look at these sites for further information as they both offer simple (and more complex ) kits that would be a good starting point for you. http://www.ngtrains.com/Pages/Port_Wynnstay/portwynnstay.htm http://www.smallbrookstudio.com/page_1201118902437.html You may get a more detailed response if you ask your specific Peco/Branchlines questions on the 7mmNGA Yahoo Group (details at the bottom of the Assn front page) http://www.7mmnga.org.uk/ Seeing your location, you have missed the biggest narrow gauge show of the year which was near to you at Swanley in October - next is Shepton in February and then 7mmNGA at Burton in May. I look forward to seeing the progress Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greengiant Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Hi Friso As you are so close by the 60th anniversary year exhibition of the Orpington and District Model Railway Society will be happening this weekend - 8th and 9th January at Pratts Bottom Village Hall, Norsted Lane, BR6 7PQ. Open from 10am to 5pm both days. I will be there with my O-16.5 layout, Whiteoak Light Railway, if you wanted to have a look and ask questions I may be able to answer. Martin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllScales Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 Hi Mike, Martin, Thanks for the info. The Port Wynnstay models certainly look very good. Over the last few days I had thought that the goods would have to consist of a bunch of 6 Peco Open wogen and 6 Box Peco Vans, and a set of 3 Peco Passenger would be the passenger train. A Tram loco would be running the passenger services and a Hunslet for the goods. I might order one of each of the Peco Wagon kits, to see how well we get on with building them before committing large amounts money to this project. Martin: I did pop in today to the show, but you were busy sorting out a traffic jam round the back of the layout! I will pop past again tomorrow for a chat and to get one of my loco's repaired (one of the cats knocked it over and the brake compressor broke off). I love the layout by the way. Very nice! Thanks, Friso Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greengiant Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Martin: I did pop in today to the show, but you were busy sorting out a traffic jam round the back of the layout! I will pop past again tomorrow for a chat and to get one of my loco's repaired (one of the cats knocked it over and the brake compressor broke off). I love the layout by the way. Very nice! Thanks, Friso Sorry I missed you, it was a busy show today, thanks for the comment on the layout, be sure to ask if you don't see me around, someone will know where I am. I am a fan of the Chivers kits many of which appear on Whiteoak, I think they are better than Peco and available again from here: http://www.slimrails.co.uk/index016.5kitspage.html Backwoods Miniatures do some interesting kits and body conversions: http://www.backwoodsminiatures.com/0n3kits.htm Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
invercloy Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Friso, have you come across NGRM (http://ngrm-online.com) ? It's a great narrow gauge specific forum which will have many more 0-16.5 modellers that you can question about various things. Lots of the questions you are asking have already been covered on there in one form or another. I like the sound of this project, look forward to reading more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllScales Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 Hi Martin, I really like those Chivers kits and the web-site has been duly bookmarked. It was great to see how things happen behind the scenes at show as well. It has given me a new angle on how to show a layout. The Backwoods Miniatures models don't look like what I'm looking for, although the vertical boiler steamer is tempting (perhaps a little logging branch?). We're aiming for the early twentieth century (but post WW I), so just before the development of the commuter belt, so possibly a Ford truck can appear, but the other engines should look like the heyday of steam. I've had a long chat with my collaborator and he is of the same opinion... You were going to drop me a link to a dedicated narrow gauge site? Is it this one: Narrow Gauge Co Uk? Thanks, Friso Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllScales Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 Friso, have you come across NGRM (http://ngrm-online.com) ? It's a great narrow gauge specific forum which will have many more 0-16.5 modellers that you can question about various things. Lots of the questions you are asking have already been covered on there in one form or another. I like the sound of this project, look forward to reading more. And then another post has probably answered my question! I'll have a look tomorrow as I need to do some domestic labour now (before I get killed :-( ). Don't expect fast results on this project, it's in a slow gestation phase.... Having said that, I have just ripped all the track from a badly conceived project to give me a spare 4ftx1ft train table...... Thanks, Friso Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greengiant Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Hi Friso Good to meet you today. The one in Invercloy's post is the one I was on about, very worthwhile and loads of information. If I come across any other sites with suitable stock I will let you know. Will be watching your project with interest. Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllScales Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 I just had a quick google of the original railway proposal, and it would have been Orpington > Green Street Green > Cudham > Biggin Hill Tatsfield. So my idea of Orpington > Crofton > Farnborough > Downe i s completely incorrect, but then I've never let the facts get in the way of any railway modeling before, so I don't see why I should start now! :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
invercloy Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Do you know if a survey was carried out of the line? I found out about a proposed line on the Isle of Skye and have tracked down drawings in the National Archives which has REALLY helped me plan a layout: http://hlrco.wordpress.com Might be worth a look on their site too to see if you can find any for this line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllScales Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 It's amazing what you can find online these days! The Surrey History Centre has a copy of the Light Railway Order from 1902! Anyone know what is in those documents? If it's all just legalese then it's probably not worth the trip, but otherwise it might pay to nip over to Woking to get a copy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
invercloy Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 If it is anything like the document that I found for the HLR then it will include the suggested method of motive power, gauge, provision for waiting areas and platforms at stations, signalling, requirements for turntables (or not), any limitations on the areas that could or couldn't be worked in, and then all the "legalese". Well worth going to look at if you want to be accurate in your portrayal of things. Finding the documents for the HLR has helped me determine what Isle Ornsay would have looked like, what facilities it would have had and what stock might have run there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllScales Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Woking (or National Archives) here I come! Many thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllScales Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 I have found some details in a book called "Colonel Stephens - Insights into the man and his empire". I appears there were two proposals: The first was to travel from Orpington to Green Street Green and then up to Cudham Church and on to Biggin Hill and Tatsfield, This was around 1898. The second would have gone Orpington, Green Street Green, Downe and Keston, Biggin Hill and Cudham, Tatsfield, Chelsham and on to Sanderstead. This one was around 1925 and was to have been built as an electric light railway operated by the S.E. & C.R.. Colonel Stephens was involved in both proposals. I can see the route in my minds eye for both proposals, the earlier proposal would have been very challenging as there is a fairly steep gradient from Green Street Green on up to Cudham Church! I think I'd model the second proposal, but pretend it was earlier, and narrow gauge steam instead of electric... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturminster_Newton Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 (edited) As relevant here as any other O-16.5 discussion. Don't forget you need to work to a 21" grid otherwise you all your chosen O gauge structures won't fit onto your OO scaled baseboard... It is easy to think that working in 7mm will cure the eyesight and space restrictions of OO9, but this not the case It should be obvious but it can take a while for the scale/gauge penny to clatter on the bottom of the box... Thus a OO9 plan on 4 x 2 nominal will when scaled to suit O-16,5 need a space of 8'0 x 3'6. Scaling the plan grid (normally 12") works in all scales. O-gauge is 1.75 larger dimensionally larger than OO. G1 which will need a multiplier of 2.38 or around 30" to indicate the amount of room to contain a 1:32scale model of the original OO9 4x2 layout. It is the structures that dictate the space needed. You may of course reduce the station used in OO9 to a garden shed and a few paving slabs in G1... and it will not look a too cramped on 4x2 but operating interest may be easily exhausted. So you have to add more detail and perhaps make working features that you may not have considered in OO. Less in many cases is more - scenic detailing work. Of course you may have a O-16.5 shunting plank on a 1000 x 450 baseboard, but scenically development may not be more than a ground frame and some weeds with possibly a ditch and section of hedge. Proportionately low-profile O scale buildings occupy a reasonable foot print and you can soon find your ideal track plan runs parallel to the baseboard edge and is no more than a few pieces of straight track and a set of points. Edited August 26, 2020 by Sturminster_Newton Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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