DCC Concepts Loco Decoders

[Tim Hale]

Hi,

 

When first announced, I bought one of the small decoders plus 'stay alive' to install in a FIA Trains 10000 but I am still awaiting the release of the definitions on DCC Concepts website and have received no response to my requests for an update from DCC Concepts. A recent email to Bromsgrove mail provide a better response?

 

DesA

[Marty Mc]

Hi

 

When first announced, I bought one of the small decoders plus 'stay alive' to install in a FIA Trains 10000 but I am still awaiting the release of the definitions on DCC Concepts website and have received no response to my requests for an update from DCC Concepts. A recent email to Bromsgrove mail provide a better response?

 

Please be patience Richard of DCC Concepts has just returned from his UK/Europe trip promoting his new decoder. Richard has 1000's of emails waiting for him and I am sure he will get to them ASAP. The full instructions are nearly ready, but Richard wants to make sure they are right. The end of Feb is still looking good for release of full instructions.

 

From Richard

 

All this is a wee bit premature in a way as I hadn't actually intended to add them to the web until my return from an OS trip early in Feb ( I am visiting UK and EU). I am very sorry that full instructions will have to wait until then too... CV structure isn't different but we are doing instructions a bit differently as we try to with many of our products - really wanting to demistify the act of setting decoders up for use properly for the average modeller.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Martin

[Godders]

Hi all,

 

Last week, Monday, I ordered the following from Bromsgrove Models; pack of 5 small 4 function decoders with "stay alive", 2 single cobalt accessory decoders and a cobalt point motor.

 

Yippee, wonderful service, ordered Monday afternoon, delivered Tuesday morning 0955.

 

The decoder was fitted to a new Hornby 08 and the "stay alive", wired by screwing wire ends together, after all I am a retired professional Control System Engineer.

 

I ran the loco without any adjustments to CVs and it took the best part of 30 minutes to travel 36 inches minus the length of the loco. Without the body it was possible to see the "stay alive action" kick in when almost stalled. heaven knows what will be achieved when we get the manual. In the mean time I'm going to start experimenting with settings to see what I can achieve. The "stay alive" can be supplemented to give longer periods without power, haven'i tried that aspect yet.

 

As for the Static decoder and point motor, thank goodness someone has heard my prayers for single decoders that can be mounted locally to the equipment they operate. All it takes is; two wires from track to decoder, each two inches long, two wires from decoder to point motor, again two inches long and one wire from point motor to "frog", four inches long. Who says DCC is complicated! And as a bonus the point motor is positive and quiet.

 

Ooh! sorry, forgot you might need two wires if you want local push button operation.

 

Cheers

 

Godders

[Tim Hale]

Godders,

 

In the absence of any response from DCC Concepts and no further information on their website, would you be so kind as to share your understanding of which wires from the 'stay alive' are connected to what/which connection?

 

Many Thanks

 

DesA

[Marty Mc]

Hi DesA

 

I sent you a step by step guide on how to install the decoder and "stay alive" with a photo. These are not the DCC Concepts instructions but mine to get you started. I can understand you want to get your loco running but be fair he has a lot on his plate and you were told the end of February.

 

Great to hear Gooders you are happy with them. Those small decoders are excellent for jobs such as what you have done. Maybe you could post some photos for all to see.

 

Cheers

 

Martin

[Tim Hale]

Hi Martin,

 

If you wish to see example of my work, you merely need to use the ' contents' facility and review the items therein.

 

Many thanks for the information supplied, I find it very unusual to be sold goods without instructions however your assistance is much appreciated and I am looking forward to installing a top quality decoder in my FIA Trains twin.

 

DesA

[Godders]

Hi All

Godders,

 

In the absence of any response from DCC Concepts and no further information on their website, would you be so kind as to share your understanding of which wires from the 'stay alive' are connected to what/which connection?

 

Many Thanks

 

DesA

 

There is nothing magical about the DCC-S4SAX (With Stay Alive), certainly not it's name. Until we get more info from DCC Concepts we probably won't find any innovations.

However, what I will say is that it is excellent value for money, even though I believe all decoders from all sources are vastly overpriced.

 

Now after the prattle the answer to your question. The two wires on the "Stay Alive" are Black and Blue. There are four wires on the decoder; Green and Purple, Black and Blue. Just join the Blue to Blue and Black to Black.

 

The Green wire is function output C, the Purple wire is function output D. all other wires are connected by harness from decoder to a standard 8 pin plug.

 

Great to hear Gooders you are happy with them. Those small decoders are excellent for jobs such as what you have done. Maybe you could post some photos for all to see.

 

Martin

 

 

When I get back in later I will attempt to take and post photos but they can' t believe they be exciting to anyone.

 

What was more exciting to me was at the same time as I did the above I tried to get my factory fitted DCC "Super D" to run properly.

From new this loco limped and lurched and no matter how I adjusted the CVs it continued to limp and lurch.

Drastic action was required. I completely stripped it; took the unsightly coupler box off, removed the myriads of capacitors and inductors, re-soldered the wiring directly to the motor and adjusted the wheel pickups.

Bingo, a beautiful loco that runs almost as slowly as the 08.

Cheers Guys

 

Godders

[Tim Hale]

Godders,

 

Many thanks, I totally agree with your sentiments on decoder prices.

 

With your's and Martin's help, we should be in business.

 

DesA

[CullingworthGNR]

Can anyone tell me if the stay-alive capacitor works with DC control?

 

You could fit just the stay-alive capacitor to a DCC 8 pin connector, making the benefits available to DC users as well... All for about £10?

[Richard Johnson]

*** Sorry Tom, no, it can't be used like that.

 

regards

 

Richard

 

Can anyone tell me if the stay-alive capacitor works with DC control?

 

You could fit just the stay-alive capacitor to a DCC 8 pin connector, making the benefits available to DC users as well... All for about £10?

[DougN]

Richard, do you have any suppliers in Melbourne currently?

 

Thanks

[PaulT]

I have just had an em from Richardf of DCC Concepts...

 

 

"We should have instructions online mid March..."

[john dew]

They are still not listed on DCC Concepts Web Site. Bromsgrove dont ship to North America..............any suggestions where I can buy some?

 

Kind Regards from Vancouver

[Marty Mc]

Hi

 

You will be able to buy them soon enough. The main problem was they were not to be released for about another 2 weeks from now. Unfortunately they were announced early but that is how it goes.

 

Most of the larger retailers in the UK/Australia will stock them as well as DCC Concepts. My guess you will also see them pop up on ebay like every other product.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Martin

[john dew]

Thanks for the reply Martin.......I will look out for them

[RedgateModels]

Hi John,

 

I'd love to try one but they don't seem to be listed on your website ...

[Richard Johnson]

*** Thats my fault, not Johns - i was further ahead of full release than I realised when I supplied John with some limited stock and having only part of the range was creating some issues, not the least of which was massive email loading from those looking for them... so I have withheld further release until all the T's are crossed and eyes dotted, and fuller stock is available (apart from a few examples sent out to specific consumers)

 

Not too long now... sorry to keep you wating.

 

Richard

[john dew]

Thank you for the update Richard......much appreciated.

 

It looks a super product and I am looking forward to trying it out.

 

Would it be possible for you to let me know from whom I should eventually order it ? I live in Canada and much as I would like to order from John, his insurers ,for some bizarre reason (I order from many UK suppliers), will not allow him to do so.

[RedgateModels]

Thanks for the update Richard, I've bought a few Lenz Standards to keep me going for now, might see if I can rig up a stay alive cap for one.

 

As long as the price is right I'll give one a try when they are ready

[Marty Mc]

Hi

 

As long as the price is right I'll give one a try when they are ready

 

The price is more than right.

 

I know I will upset some here with the following. I am of the opinion for what you get they are under priced. The are up there with Zimo Lenz etc. I think they should be at least 20% more but that's just my opinion.

 

Martin

[Ron Ron Ron]

The price is more than right.

 

I know I will upset some here with the following. I am of the opinion for what you get they are under priced. The are up there with Zimo Lenz etc. I think they should be at least 20% more but that's just my opinion.

 

The introduction of this range is very welcome, particularly as the price is very competitive (please Martin, don't tell Richard he isn't charging enough !).

I haven't bought any yet, but initial reports suggest they are very good, however I wouldn't get too carried away.

 

Although good, the spec is fairly standard, middle price band fare.

Motor power rating is good

function output power rating is good

Nothing unusual about extended addresses, standard range of speed steps, BEMF etc

Lighting effects (Mars,Strobe, Alternating Ditch lights and Flickering Firebox etc) are the usual found on many other decoders etc, etc.

 

The "killer app" as they say in IT parlance, is the very very affordable "stay alive" capability and the fact it is available ready to fit.

(n.b. We're still waiting to hear about the easy programming method or whatever?).

 

In other respects the spec (as issued so far) isn't anywhere near "being up there" with more expensive decoders from the likes of Zimo, but then not everybody wants or needs all those extra or advanced extra features and functionality.

However spec isn't everything, particularly if there isn't performance to match it, so I'm pleased to hear that these decoders are reported to be very good in this department. I look forward to more reports from users.

 

 

No doubt Richard will be considering or planning to add to the range in due course?

Personally, I hope there will be...

21-pin and more importantly PluX fitted models

a 5 or 6 function model (so we can have proper full lighting control on D&E models)

Asymmetric Braking Control

and, if Richard can get over his reticence or apparent scepticism, RailCom.

 

Some if not all of those features are provided on quality decoders from Lenz, Zimo, ESU, TCS, CT Elektronik, Kuehn etc.

 

 

I'm following these interesting developments with eager anticipation and like others, wish the project well.

 

Regards

Ron

[Marty Mc]

Hi Ron

 

Fair call based on the info that out there I agree.

 

Although good, the spec is fairly standard, middle price band fare.

Motor power rating is good

function output power rating is good

Nothing unusual about extended addresses, standard range of speed steps, BEMF etc

Lighting effects (Mars,Strobe, Alternating Ditch lights and Flickering Firebox etc) are the usual found on other decoders etc, etc.

 

The "killer app" as they say in IT parlance, is the very very affordable "stay alive" capability and the fact it is available ready to fit.

(n.b. We're still waiting to hear about the easy programming capability).

 

In other respects the spec isn't anywhere near "being up there" with more expensive decoders from the likes of Zimo, but then not everybody wants or needs all those extra or advanced extra features and functionality.

However spec isn't everything, particularly if there isn't performance to match it, so Im very glad to hear that these decoders are reported to be very good in this department. I look forward to more reports from users.

 

All the info and specifications have not being released yet, so I suppose I based my judgement on what I know. See Richard is a modeller just like us and he wanted to design an manufacturer a decoder that would suit 90% of us. He has also come up with a new simplified concept for programming CV,s and I can guarantee when it is launched it will be greeted with a sigh of relief from newbees and even the veterans.

 

Not long now now.

 

Martin

[Tim Hale]

Ron wrote:

In other respects the spec (as issued so far) isn't anywhere near "being up there" with more expensive decoders from the likes of Zimo, but then not everybody wants or needs all those extra or advanced extra features and functionality.

However spec isn't everything, particularly if there isn't performance to match it, so I'm pleased to hear that these decoders are reported to be very good in this department. I look forward to more reports from users.

 

I fitted my DCC Concepts decoder in a large (typical) diesel with a fairly high starting load, this model is somewhat difficult to start smoothly and has already defeated a Lenz Gold but does respond well to a big Zimo. High hopes, indeed, for the DCC Concepts but it failed to favourably compare with the big Zimo and the start from dead control was no better than the Lenz Gold.

 

However, this model is notorious for sorting the wheat from the chaff, only the Zimo seems to provide a smooth start with full control and on a smaller model the DCC Concepts performed adequately, no dramas but neither was the control 'precise'. In short, a nice middle-of-the-road decoder with the 'stay-alive' feature.

 

The above subjective rather than objective but they are the type of use expected by the average modeller - for your information I used a new model MultiMaus driving through a Lenz LZV100 v3.6 software.

 

DesA

[RFS]

Just bought a couple of DCC Concepts decoders from Bromsgrove Models - S2SAX (small without stay-alive). These were for my two King Arthurs as I was having trouble with the TCS DP2X-UK decoders with slow-running. I needed the small version due to the restricted space in the King Arthurs, and there's no room either for the stay-alive component, although with both loco and tender pickup that shouldn't really be necessary.

 

As I'm using RR&Co TrainController automation I calibrated the loco with its new decoder. With CV5 set to 255 top speed was 79 mph which I'm perfectly happy with. So I set CV2, CV3 and CV4 to 0 as threshold speed, acceleration and deceleration are handled by TC. And I set CV6 (mid-speed) to 127 as this should produce a linear speed curve (it does on my Lenz-fitted locos). TC runs the loco back and forth over a measured section using 15 speed steps in mulitples of about 8. But the ouptut from the TC calibration was not a straight line as expected:

 

 

There seems to be a sudden increase in speed at around the half-way mark. In fact, if I drive the loco with my Lenz LH100 throttle, and not TC, then there is a sharp burst of acceleration between speed steps 64 and 80 which seems to match the profile above. Setting CV3=5 seems to make no difference and isn't needed with TC. However, the slow-running is much improved over the TCS decoder previously used.

 

The back of the decoder package says that the decoder PDF documentation files can be downloaded from the DCC Concepts web-site, but all that's there is a message saying "coming soon".

 

I've tried changing CV3, for example, but the sudden lurch forward above step 64 is still there. It's not the loco as it never did this with the TCS DP2X-UK decoder.

 

Any ideas?

 

This is the same loco's calibration with the TCS DP2X-UK decoder, which has CV5=170 and CV6=85.

 

 

[BromsMods]

Have you removed the capacitor?