RMweb Gold RFS Posted May 4, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 4, 2011 It was removed when the TCS DP2X-UK decoder was first installed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Have you removed the capacitor? Hello John and all, I have the identical problem. I was going to e mail Richard regarding this but was waiting until the instructions had been published but now the subject has been broached it seems appropriate to mention it. I think the problem is not related to the capacitor as I have not yet had the cap connected, indeed all the tests I have conducted, the decoder has just been coupled to an ESU 51900 Decoder tester. The voltmeter (A Calibrated fluke 289) was coupled directly across the motor terminals. With my decoder, on an increasing throttle, the voltage "drop" is constantly repeatable and I have used 3 dcc systems Sprog, Powercab, and Hornby elite to control the decoder. No cvs were changed from factory default. Below are the voltage tests. DCC-S4SAP DCC concepts decoder. 21 Jan 2011 Speed Step Voltage tests Speed (Voltage).drops between Speedstep 95 & 96 on increasing throttle. Ave. Volts at SS-95 8.492vdc Ave. Volts at SS-96 7.351vdc Ave. Volts at SS-97 7.975vdc Ave. Volts at SS-98 8.123vdc Ave. Volts at SS-99 8.167vdc Ave. Volts at SS-100 8.227vdc Ave. Volts at SS-101 8.368vdc Ave. Volts at SS-102 8.467vdc Ave. Volts at SS-103 8.520vdc Also noted drop in last SS increase between 125 & 126 I have more spreadsheets available with results but they are on my main PC which I cannot access till Friday. Strange thing is I found early TCS chips exhibited an almost identical problem. I will be interested to hear Richards take on this. Hope all the above makes sense. (Dyslexia) Cheers, Porcy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Mc Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Hi Porcy It is very clear and I certainly think Richard will be interested in your information. I note the Vd doesnt recover until speed step 103. I cannot fault your equipment as Fluke is an excellent brand. This is a wild guess here but based on the date of purchase somehow a pre production decoders may have got sent out with the trial batches. Best contact Richard at DCC Concepts as he will be able to answer your questions. Cheers Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BromsMods Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share Posted June 2, 2011 At long last the decoder notes are now available - see the document available at http://www.bromsgrov...m?categoryId=69 Received a new stock of these decoders this morning including the new M and TS (small thin) series. Will update the store as soon as I can to include these new ranges. Unfortunately there has been a price increase because of the falling exchange rate against the AUS$. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kay Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Having read the instructions which seem very clear, especially to a newbie like myself, I've placed an order for some of the new small thin ones. Thanks for the update John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
43078shildoncountydurham Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Hi everybody, I've just plugged 1 of the these in a Bachmann class45 8 pin, ran ok for a minute on the test track then stopped my handset says short so put the old decoder back in and the class 45 is running ok again! Any help please Regards Craig Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Hale Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 After a long(ish) period of use in at least two Bachmann locos, the DCC Concepts small decoder has finally been replaced with a ZTC item which provides far better slow speed control and mid-range performance. Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benbow Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Yep same problem. Ran OK for a few minutes then gave an Error message on handset. Loco runs fine on DC, fine with TCS, Bachmann and Lenz decoder. have emailed bromsgrove but think he has been away. Awaiting a response. Glad it's not just me! Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250BOB Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Hi Guys, Fitted my first DCC Concepts decoder into a Rebuilt Patriot tonite.....first thing I note is that it needs about 8 speed steps ( of 126 )before it moves. Also, I have gradients on my layout, and it speeds up noticeably on the down grades, probably by a scale 10 to 20 mph......never noticed this on any of my lenz or tcs decoders. Anyone else had similar exeriences, or offer any thoughts on what I can perhaps try.? Thanks................Bob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Johnson Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 *** back EMF is slightly lighter in the default settings than some other brands for good reason: It reduces the incidence of fighting between locos when consisting. This approach has been taken as it is a product that is sold globally and many markets consist locos very frequently. The light back EMF default means that loco by loco start step will needsome adjustment but I feel this preferable as CV2 is far easier to work with than any form of BEMF tweaking for the average modeller. Off the top of my head try this: For that loco try CV2 to 10, CV 3 to say 12, CV 4 to 8, CV5 to 180 and CV6 to say 60. Setup of the decoder in plain English is covered in detail here: http://www.dccconcepts.com/PDF_Downloads/DCCdecoder_instructions.pdf These instructions really do work. I have a Bachmann Jinty running beside my desk at the moment - it takes nearly 45 minutes to travel 3 metres at speed step 1. Regards Richard DCCconcepts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 We've a couple of these in modern Athearn SW1000/SW1500 and they have worked wonders, the loco's have 8 wheel pickup but are very light so intermittent pickup issues were hampering running, especially as much of it was at slow speed. The 'stay alive' module sits over the front truck with no issues, and the operation is superb. Next up will be fiddling with settings. B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250BOB Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 *** back EMF is slightly lighter in the default settings than some other brands for good reason: It reduces the incidence of fighting between locos when consisting. This approach has been taken as it is a product that is sold globally and many markets consist locos very frequently. The light back EMF default means that loco by loco start step will needsome adjustment but I feel this preferable as CV2 is far easier to work with than any form of BEMF tweaking for the average modeller. Off the top of my head try this: For that loco try CV2 to 10, CV 3 to say 12, CV 4 to 8, CV5 to 180 and CV6 to say 60. Setup of the decoder in plain English is covered in detail here: http://www.dccconcepts.com/PDF_Downloads/DCCdecoder_instructions.pdf These instructions really do work. I have a Bachmann Jinty running beside my desk at the moment - it takes nearly 45 minutes to travel 3 metres at speed step 1. Regards Richard DCCconcepts Hello Richard...........many thanks for your response. I bought a selection of 4 decoders as I was keen to give these a really good work out. The one I have tested , the S2SAX, fits perfectly in the loco without any space issue. But I like to set CV5 to be the max speed I want the loco to work at....in the case of this decoder it is around the 137 mark. This is so I can set my controller to 126, then just watch as the loco accelerates to its preset max speed. Also, I like to have very slow, realistic acceleration and deceleration, I normally use about 100 for acceleration and about 60 for deceleration with my lenz decoders, it may seem pedestrian, but thats how I like to have it work, and it works ok with all my TCS and Lenz decoders. I will give your suggestions a try later tonite....but it is the acceleration on the downgrades that does worry me, the speed increases from about a scale 40mph to about a scale 60mph on a 1:85 downgrade, and this increase happens very quickly once onto the downgrade section. last night I did take off the BEMF by putting value 0 into CV61, it did improve the runaway problem quite considerably......but I then encountered some other problems of inconsistent accleration. I will get back to testing tonite, its my last chance until next week, as I will be away till Monday. But first I will try your recommendations and see if I get the performance. I had already read your very comprehensive instructions......commendable. Your reply is much appreciated Richard....its great to get feedback from you as the supplier, your comments have already helped me understand where the decoders strengths are. Regard....................Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Johnson Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 *** Hi Bob - actually I do the same with my own locos... I just always use conservative recommendations on forums as some are too impatient for longer accel/decel rates and more conservative speed setting. I'd turn BEMF on again. set CV5 to whatever you want set CV6 to between 1/3 and 1/4 of CV5 Set acceleration/deceleration to whatever you want Adjust Cv2 to give a crawl at speed step 1. That'll probably be in the same area I suggested before. So far haven't failed to get any loco working just as I want with that approach... you can also trim acceleration/deceleration curves nicely with our decoder but I have not yet published the instructions for that as I didn't want to overcomplicate life for the novice user until we had a good handle on how much added email support we might need to provide in order to keep giving good customer service. Added refinements such as that will go online over the next month or two as separate instruction sections. I am happy to give direct support by the way - my direct email is on our website. kind regards Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250BOB Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 *** Hi Bob - actually I do the same with my own locos... I just always use conservative recommendations on forums as some are too impatient for longer accel/decel rates and more conservative speed setting. I'd turn BEMF on again. set CV5 to whatever you want set CV6 to between 1/3 and 1/4 of CV5 Set acceleration/deceleration to whatever you want Adjust Cv2 to give a crawl at speed step 1. That'll probably be in the same area I suggested before. So far haven't failed to get any loco working just as I want with that approach... you can also trim acceleration/deceleration curves nicely with our decoder but I have not yet published the instructions for that as I didn't want to overcomplicate life for the novice user until we had a good handle on how much added email support we might need to provide in order to keep giving good customer service. Added refinements such as that will go online over the next month or two as separate instruction sections. I am happy to give direct support by the way - my direct email is on our website. kind regards Richard Many thanks again for your response Richard....but I'm just off for a long weekend away now...so it wil be next week before I can re visit the trials. Much appreciated.............Bob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 ....... you can also trim acceleration/deceleration curves nicely with our decoder but I have not yet published the instructions for that as I didn't want to overcomplicate life for the novice user until we had a good handle on how much added email support we might need to provide in order to keep giving good customer service. The JMRI/DecoderPro file for the DCC Concepts decoders includes the acceleration trimming capabilities. - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250BOB Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 The JMRI/DecoderPro file for the DCC Concepts decoders includes the acceleration trimming capabilities. - Nigel Hi Nigel, Thanks for your reply...could you elaborate on your statement please, just explain what this is in more detail for me. Thanks.........Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Hi Nigel, Thanks for your reply...could you elaborate on your statement please, just explain what this is in more detail for me. Thanks.........Bob If you use a computer running JMRI/DecoderPro to setup your decoders (and are using the most recent test versions, or the 2.12 release which will be out in a few days time), then the decoder file for DCC Concepts Decoders includes the advanced acceleration and deceleration features which Richard eluded to. These give the option of setting different acceleration and deceleration rates at different speed settings. Richard gave me a lot of information prior to the full release of his decoder range, and took the time to check over my test version of the JMRI file. That allowed the JMRI file to be available publically pretty much on the day of the release of the decoder for general sale. There is, of course, a possibility that an error has crept through into the file, and should anyone find something not working correctly, I'll make changes for future JMRI releases. - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250BOB Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 If you use a computer running JMRI/DecoderPro to setup your decoders (and are using the most recent test versions, or the 2.12 release which will be out in a few days time), then the decoder file for DCC Concepts Decoders includes the advanced acceleration and deceleration features which Richard eluded to. These give the option of setting different acceleration and deceleration rates at different speed settings. Richard gave me a lot of information prior to the full release of his decoder range, and took the time to check over my test version of the JMRI file. That allowed the JMRI file to be available publically pretty much on the day of the release of the decoder for general sale. There is, of course, a possibility that an error has crept through into the file, and should anyone find something not working correctly, I'll make changes for future JMRI releases. - Nigel Thanks for explaining that further Nigel. Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted July 4, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 4, 2011 not read through this thread at all but bob, if you want me to bring my laptop which has jmri on and lenz usb interface next time i visit you can have a play with setting up your decoders if you want. you can borrow the interface if you have a laptop too (dont have any use for it now i havent got a layout) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250BOB Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 not read through this thread at all but bob, if you want me to bring my laptop which has jmri on and lenz usb interface next time i visit you can have a play with setting up your decoders if you want. you can borrow the interface if you have a laptop too (dont have any use for it now i havent got a layout) Hi Jim, Must admit I am a bit vague on this stuff....but sounds like you understand it, so next time your up, yes, bring along your laptop. But just to bring you up to speed......the decoder is fine for me, apart from the way it tackles gradients. The loco speeds up coming down hill, and slows going up hill, and my understanding of bemf is that it is supposed to eliminate that.? Or am I mistaken.? Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted July 5, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2011 oh i dont understand it at all bob but im sure we can work out how to do it between us, may have tomorrow evening free to pop over i do find jmri useful for when i lend locos to people and the cv's get changed, can quickly change them to how they were before i lent them to you........sorry i meant other people!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250BOB Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Hi Jim, I'm in all night, just have a pal popping round about 8pm, he wants me to take a decoder out of his 08 and fit it into his new railroad patriot. No problem if you fancy coming over, be good to see you. Bob. PS.........love the "L" plates. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benbow Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Yep same problem. Ran OK for a few minutes then gave an Error message on handset. Loco runs fine on DC, fine with TCS, Bachmann and Lenz decoder. have emailed bromsgrove but think he has been away. Awaiting a response. Glad it's not just me! Roger Well returned it to Broms Mods and a reply from John stated that when he tested it it "went up in a puff of smoke"!!! A new one is on the way. I look forward to trying it. Excellent service as usual. Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Just trying to set up custom speed curves on a pair of Athearn SW1500s with D2SAPs, it seems like the 'even' speed steps produce slower speeds than the 'odd' speed steps on both machines? Current setup is that CV5 is 80, CV6 is 40, CV2 is 0, 3 and 4 have a small amount of momentum in but I can't recall what. One loco is running reversed and both under the same number with the intention that they will work as a pair once set up, but both show the same symptom when used individually. I'm very new to the customising CVs thing, so i've probably overlooked something... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Johnson Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 *** I'm not actually quite sure about the question, but in general: Those loco's both have similar gear ratios so should work similarly once you sort it the way you want it. I'd make Cv6 about 1/3 of Cv5 and I tend to keep stepping in even numbers when I create a custom curve because of the way decoders interpret between 28 and 128 speed steps. (so keeping with your appx CV5~Vmax, say 28 and 84) . I'd possibly also take CV2 as high as 10 with a low Cv2 as it minimises each steps voltage change quite a lot.. with any low speed loco thats going to be used for switching I'd probably keep momentum somewhere between 6 and 12 in each direction, as that makes it possible to run slow and shunt very precisely with only the direction button, leaving the speed knob totally alone, once you are used to the settings. ------------------------------------- Incidentally, I'm happy to help as much as I can but its not always possible to give quick responses online as I don't always drop in every day to see whats going on - my desk is piled very high with other things to do, and if I am away on business I try not to look at the forums at all :-)... so as long as there is a little patience as the reply may take a day or two, any owner is welcome to contact me directly via email if they wish - Being a modeller too, I always do my best to help as best I can. There are lots of email links on our website. kind regards Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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