Ever Regretted Using 00?

[Stephen Freeman]

Hi, yes I had looked at the Exactoscale parts and they do indeed look great, it's not so much the soldering that's the problem just the sheer volume of points and the amount of time it would take. I am going to order some parts and have a go though.

 

30 Turnouts commissioned would cost around £1,000.00 the DIY approach would probably cost you around £300.00, (you then have to balance out how much you could earn in the time it takes to build them - I know that for many they think this is not a consideration as they are not sacrificing - or don't think they are, paid time, what they forget is that no time is really free). It doesn't matter which gauge or method of construction you adopt. I can't see that soldering approach should be any quicker and probably won't look as good.

[roger440]

30 Turnouts commissioned would cost around £1,000.00 the DIY approach would probably cost you around £300.00, (you then have to balance out how much you could earn in the time it takes to build them - I know that for many they think this is not a consideration as they are not sacrificing - or don't think they are, paid time, what they forget is that no time is really free). It doesn't matter which gauge or method of construction you adopt. I can't see that soldering approach should be any quicker and probably won't look as good.

 

Interesting. Thats only £33 a go..... Im surprised. Suddenly handbuilt points seem more attractive.

[Stephen Freeman]

Interesting. Thats only £33 a go..... Im surprised. Suddenly handbuilt points seem more attractive.

 

I did say around - depends on the turnout of course. Say for B6 approx £39.00.

[Guest jim s-w]

30 points at an hour each - I wish I earned £5g a month!

 

Cheers

 

Jim

[highpeak]

I can't see that soldering approach should be any quicker and probably won't look as good.

I would agree on both points (sorry!) but there is one advantage with soldered construction for the novice (which is where I am) and it's not strength either. The solder/PCB approach gives you a degree of adjustability that plastic construction doesn't.

[roger440]

30 points at an hour each - I wish I earned £5g a month!

 

Cheers

 

Jim

 

Happy to give you first refusal for the work if/when i get round to it.!!! I know i certainly couldn't knock out a point in an hour. Maybe when i get to the 30th! And i doubt it will compare to yours.

 

Im just surprised that i could get built it for that. Thats only 2-3 times a peco code 75 point, but a million times better looking.

[Guest jim s-w]

You will Roger

 

Not the first few I grant you. If you use exactoscale bits it will look exactly like mine!

 

Cheers

 

Jim

[roger440]

You will Roger

 

Not the first few I grant you. If you use exactoscale bits it will look exactly like mine!

 

Cheers

 

Jim

 

Not quite the same, wrong gauge

[Portchullin Tatty]

The difference is that the gap between running and check rails in P4 is less than the width of the rail head, like the real thing. In EM its the other way round. Once you know this difference its very obvious and makes EM look more like 00 than p4.

 

..................and watch the stock go over a crossing (what Peco call a frog - aggghhh!). Except in P4, the vehicle lurches into the gap between the crossing nose and the wing rail before bouncing back up again; to me (and this is just my view), it screams toy train.

 

The height and magnitude of the rail is the other key thing to me; bullhead track is startlingly slender when you look at it and even modern flat bottom rail is more delicate than Peco streamline (or finescale). Then you get the issue of sleeper spacing, that horrible device to hold the blades over, the radiuses that are used, flange heights and we have not mentioned the guage yet......................................................................................aorry; now you have got me going you see!!

 

What you do is your decision, but have a play with one of the turnout kits (C&L or P4 Track Co), a couple of meter of rail and one of Craig Whilding's chassis kits to see what you think before you make a decision - be it EM or P4, you don't know until you have tried.

[Nickey Line]

..................and watch the stock go over a crossing (what Peco call a frog - aggghhh!). Except in P4, the vehicle lurches into the gap between the crossing nose and the wing rail before bouncing back up again; to me (and this is just my view), it screams toy train.

 

Not so; any 'Fine Scale' gauge (EM, DOGA Fine, 00-SF etc.) will not exhibit the problems you're describing.

[bike2steam]

..................and watch the stock go over a crossing (what Peco call a frog - aggghhh!). Except in P4, the vehicle lurches into the gap between the crossing nose and the wing rail before bouncing back up again; to me (and this is just my view), it screams toy train.

 

 

Doesn't with my Peco code 75/ Shinohara code 82, funny smell round 'ere.

[craigwelsh]

Doesn't with my Peco code 75/ Shinohara code 82, funny smell round 'ere.

Peco has a raised section of plastic in the frog doesn't it? You wont have an issue if you use nice wide coarse wheels anyway but Alan Gibson/Ultrascale tyres would cause issues for example.

 

00-SF would have no issues with all 00 wheels.

 

Its basically a case of needing to specify a minumum tyre width to match your trackwork.

 

 

Incidentally Exactoscale 'P4' wheels can theoretically drop into P4 crossings as they have an exact width tyre whereas P4 has a slightly increased check gauge, you should really ahve to build to S4 but its not really an issue in reality.

[Julia]

Just to offer a slightly different perspective. Rather than wishing I modelled in P4 or EM, I wish I was modelling H0. But as I want to model BR(S) I have no option but to model in 00.

 

And the reason with this. My friends model in H0, more specifically as a member of a group building very large modular layouts, they model continental image in H0 and I would like to be able to connect my modules to theirs.

 

The nutty reasons behind how the UK ended up with 00 rather than H0, followed by people then fixing this by creating p4/em, does sometimes make me want to scream. But there is not much we can do about it now, and until British H0 takes off (and pigs fly...) I don't really have much choice. I just wish there was a RTR alternative to PECO track.

 

J

[Julia]

My only regret is that when Mainline and Airfix entered the R-T-R market in the 70s, they used OO rather than HO. Imagine, had they chosen HO Hornby might well have eventually followed suit, and our trains would nowadays be running on correct gauge track.

 

Amen to that.

 

J

[Julia]

00 is the prominent form of modelling as its what comes out of the box, the other gauges are finescale niche scales for people with the time to go further than the basics on an out of the box item.

 

As these are niche markets the suppliers are invariably mainly fellow enthusiasts or small businesses.

 

 

Sorry to be a pedant, but I think you may find that H0 is the more prominent form if we decide to include the rest of the world in our considerations.

 

J

 

 

 

[craigwelsh]

Sorry to be a pedant, but I think you may find that H0 is the more prominent form if we decide to include the rest of the world in our considerations.

 

J

Yes but until the channel tunnel there was very little that this mattered for and even with the tunnel its only a handful of models you need in 2 gauges.

 

As for your H0 point I suggest you look up previous threads on why it still wouldn't work for British models without us getting even worse compromises on models.

[Julia]

Yes but until the channel tunnel there was very little that this mattered for and even with the tunnel its only a handful of models you need in 2 gauges.

 

As for your H0 point I suggest you look up previous threads on why it still wouldn't work for British models without us getting even worse compromises on models.

 

Well you say that, SNCF stock was found through out the South Eastern Railways' area, usually having arrived by ferry.

 

Also, having seen the quality of many of the loco's available from German manufacturers I struggle to see the argument that making UK image models in H0 scale would lead to too many compromises. Especially when you see the quality of some TT and N scale loco's of British outline.

 

J

[Bernard Lamb]

Also, having seen the quality of many of the loco's available from German manufacturers I struggle to see the argument that making UK image models in H0 scale would lead to too many compromises. Especially when you see the quality of some TT and N scale loco's of British outline.

 

J

 

I model both UK and German outline and would love to see a range of UK H0 models. A Dean Goods for example. Gresley coaches would also easily find a place in my scheme. Painted green if I realy want to cause an upset.

It is not to be, as Craig has pointed out. I give you the example that clinches it. A German BR52 in H0 is wider over the cylinders than a WD or a 9F in 00. Using overscale width wheels with a scale track gauge and there is quite simply no way that you can get everything to fit without a major compromise.

Bernard

[PWSlack]

...... A German BR52 in H0 is wider over the cylinders than a ......9F in 00......

 

As the two locomotives' home sheds are geographically separated by the Channel and a couple of countries, there is little risk of a finding a prototype that could place these two side-by-side credibly unless one were cloning the Nene Valley Railway. The infrastructure gauge for such a line would be for the German equipment, and British prototypes would have little challenge with achieving passing clearances.

 

It would seem a little incongruous to place models such as these examples side by side in two different scales, just to take the opportunity of using a common track gauge for both. Such an approach would seem likely to generate the sort of regret questioned in the original post.

[edcayton]

Wansford (Nene Valley)?

 

Ed

[Bernard Lamb]

As the two locomotives' home sheds are geographically separated by the Channel and a couple of countries, there is little risk of a finding a prototype that could place these two side-by-side credibly unless one were cloning the Nene Valley Railway. The infrastructure gauge for such a line would be for the German equipment, and British prototypes would have little challenge with achieving passing clearances.

 

It would seem a little incongruous to place models such as these examples side by side in two different scales, just to take the opportunity of using a common track gauge for both. Such an approach would seem likely to generate the sort of regret questioned in the original post.

 

I could give you a string of sheds that at one time shared the two wartime built classes. My reference to Gresley coaches in green was a bit of a give away as to location.

I am not saying that you should mix and match scales, although some people do. I was using the two classes to point out the difference in the real thing in terms of overal width in relation to the track gauge.

Bernard