Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Hi Everyone,

 

Although I have been actively involved in our groups Scale 7 layout for the past 6 odd years I have never built any sort of layout myself. As this is about to change I thought I would start a thread in order to share my progress with you as I have completed enough research in order to start the design and build.

 

I hope you enjoy?

 

My layout is based on the Widened Lines between King's Cross and Moorgate. I chose this subject for the following reasons;

1. I have always found electric traction to be more interesting than steam

2. I started my career with London Transport

3. Layouts of the Underground are not that common (and I didn't want yet another GWR BLT)

4. With the exception of Clerkenwell Tunnel "most" of the route was in the open air (today is very different)

 

I have been researching the Widened Lines on and off for some 5 years and I have put together a comprehensive collection of material covering rolling stock, track layouts, signalling, operating and buildings.

 

The section being modelled is between Aldersgate to Moorgate in the late 1920's/early 1930's and the diagram below forms the basis for the model. The lines to the left beyond Aldersgate to Farringdon and to the right beyond Moorgate to Liverpool Street will be fiddle yards. The time period gives a wide range of rolling stock workings with Metropolitan Railway electric stock and LMS/LNER steam stock. Whitecross Cross Street Goods depot adds even more variety even though the freight workings were limited.

 

post-6371-0-06034400-1295805276_thumb.jpg

 

The photo below proves that not everything was underground. The view today is totally unrecognisable as the reverse curve between Aldersgate and Moorgate was moved on to a straight alignment to the left of the picture and then covered over as part of the Barbican development.

 

post-6371-0-35538400-1295805565_thumb.jpg

 

The layout will be built in sections starting with Moorgate. At the moment I am busy templotting my way through the pointwork at Moorgate before track building starts on the work bench. When the weather warms and dries up a bit more then it's outside for some baseboard building.

 

All rolling stock will have to be kit built/scratch built. The LNER and LMS is well represented in the 7mm kit market and at the moment I have an N2 tank ready to make its way through the workshops. Scale 7 wheels are not an issue as Slaters make a limited range and a member of the S7 group offers a comprehensive re-profiling service.

The Metropolitan stock is a little more challenging but I have numerous drawings, a copy of David Jenkinson's excellent book on carriage building and a copious supply of plasticard. A kit of the MetroVick BoBo is due out this year.

 

Anyway time for some more templotting.

 

F

Edited by Fay Singpoint
  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Try to get a copy of the 'London Underground Surface Stock Planbook' by Ian Huntley. This has plenty of excellent drawings of the stock you require, the drawings are in 4mm scale but are very well detailed. You may find it useful to join one of the London Underground forums, 'District Dave' has a modelling section and plenty of very knowledgeable members. Lastly there is an exhibition at the LT museums Acton site on the 12/13th of March which shows LT based layouts, well worth the effort if you can make it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always fancied Liverpool Street (Met) when it still had the bay road, I had some flight of fancy regarding peak workings to and from the bay by BR stock, as I say, a flight of fancy!

 

Good luck, looking forward to the progress.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I recognise that view in the photo I travelled the line quite regularly before the Barbican project. I think the office I worked in (M&G re-insurance) has disappeared behind taller buildings I remember there being a lot of bombsite rubble around Moorgate. I will be interested to follow the project.

Donw

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Everyone,

 

Many thanks for the advice. The research for the layout has been very enjoyable and there is still more to do.

 

For rolling stock information (Pictures and Plans) I have built up the following reference library:

 

The London Underground Surface Stock Planbook. 1863 - 1959. Ian Huntley

Locomotives Illustrated No65, Metropolitan and District Railways Locomotives. Ian Allan Publishing

The 3 Part History of the Metropolitan Railway. Bill Simpson

Metropolitan Railway Rolling Stock. James R Snowdon

Steam on the Widened Lines, Volumes 1 and 2. Geoff Goslin

Steam to Silver. J Graeme Bruce

London's Underground, John Glover

The Age of the Electric Train. J C Gillham

Metropolitan Electric Locomotives. K R Benest

 

Terry Russell Trams also supplies a range of underground rolling stock drawings.

 

The LT Museum has a fantastic photo collection which is useful because as DONW has mentioned, over half the area was bombed during the blitz.

 

The on line search and order facilities for the National Archives are also useful and I have obtained some signalling plans for the Farringdon to King's Cross section. The London Metropolitan Archives have a substantial collection of operating notices and timetables, and that is probably my next port of call.

 

I'm still making progress with templot and hope to start building the Moorgate switch & crossing work in the next few weeks.

 

F

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I recognise that view in the photo I travelled the line quite regularly before the Barbican project. I think the office I worked in (M&G re-insurance) has disappeared behind taller buildings I remember there being a lot of bombsite rubble around Moorgate. I will be interested to follow the project.

Donw

 

 

Mmmmm!

 

DonW?

 

Do I know you?

 

Dave Smith

Copthorne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After a shopping trip to the timber merchants a few weeks ago I have finally started work on the layout. The layout is designed with exhibiting in mind so (to keep weight down) the baseboard construction is primarily from 6mm birch ply laminated to make 18mm sections for the ends and sides with 6mm for the table top.

 

The 8' x 4' sheets of birch ply were cut in half by the timber merchants so they would fit in the 4x4 and here we have a selection of materials stacked up in the garage workshop ready for a Bank Holiday weekend of woodwork.

post-6371-0-36613400-1333902600_thumb.jpg

 

The table saw has been busy the past few days......

post-6371-0-16590700-1333902633_thumb.jpg

 

Producing the sides, ends and packing pieces for the three station area baseboards. These baseboards are 1200mm long x 900mm wide x 120mm deep.

post-6371-0-49348800-1333902649_thumb.jpg

 

The ends for the station boards are laid out with their packing pieces...

post-6371-0-15206200-1333902664_thumb.jpg

 

Then they are glued and clamped

post-6371-0-17011700-1333902692_thumb.jpg

 

I have the rest week available to complete the remainder of the first part of baseboard building so more to come......

 

F

Edited by Fay Singpoint
  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We are waiting... patiently and politely... for the next set of photos of the baseboard construction. Why? For one; because we are about to start cutting of 12 sheets of 8'x4' best 6.5mm birch ply for our local Club layout and for two; because we are roughing out the baseboard design of The Rookery for Adrian Marks - and your ideas might well be pinched unashamedly!

 

Serious for a moment. The Rookery is set in the East End of London, somewhere to the west of Farringdon and east of Stratford, with three levels:- the Extended Widened Lines are lowest and the GER main line on a viaduct is highest... with a poky, cramped, engine yard sandwiched in between as only the GER could buld such facilities. So we have three levels, crossing each other, with plenty of viaducts, cuttings and bridges. Hence baseboard design is critical to the success of the project and we are roughing out the design using Sketch-up to provide a 3D-virtual computer model.

 

Look for Adrian's blog here or the Basilica Fields journal on Wordpress for sketches of the intentions.

 

regards, Graham

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

somewhere to the west of Farringdon and east of Stratford

 

Make that east of Farringdon and west of Stratford. :D

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great Blog!

My Grandfather had a company in Spitlafields Market (a "Stand" they called them) under the name of T.E. Cornwell. Coincidently it was in the very part that still survives - it was taken over by Howgegos Ltd., and moved to Nine Elms.....

 

I worked in Spitalfields for exactly 4 weeks after leaving school at 15. I used to hate walking from Liverpool Street Station to the Market at 3:30am - visions of Jack the Ripper dancing in my head, made worse by the Porters who'd wind me up. Thank God I was invited to join Decca Records after one month!

 

Best, Pete.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We are waiting... patiently and politely... for the next set of photos of the baseboard construction. Why? For one; because we are about to start cutting of 12 sheets of 8'x4' best 6.5mm birch ply for our local Club layout

 

regards, Graham

 

Hi Graham,

 

I thought I had good quality 6mm birch ply but for some reason the laminating process produced some curvy results unsuitable for the baseboard ends. Therefore I have swapped to using 18mm solid ply for the ends and cross members, and 12mm solid ply for the sides. The 6mm ply is being used on the baseboard tops.

 

I am currently building seven baseboards as the first phase of Moorgate. They are all 1200mm long . Here is the 1st board to roll off the production line. The board is 900mm wide and is destined for the station area. There are 3 more 900mm wide boards being assembled along with a 600mm wide board and and two 450mm wide boards.

post-6371-0-09281500-1334169150_thumb.jpg

 

This is the underside of the board. Nothing really special and fairly easy to assemble once I had completed batch building the component parts. As described, the ends and cross pieces are 18mm solid ply and the sides 12mm. The board is a little bulky but easy to lift as the layout is designed to be assembled by one person (me).

post-6371-0-75992000-1334169167_thumb.jpg

 

Keeping with the one woman assembly idea, I have experimented with self locking hinges for the support legs as I wanted to avoid flaffing around with trestles or independent bracing. The hinges do give some movement so I will be adding self contained bracing.

post-6371-0-58213500-1334169181_thumb.jpg

 

Everything stows within the board for neatness and ease of handling. The hole in the cross bracing is for wiring.

post-6371-0-18181800-1334169197_thumb.jpg

 

In theory nothing special but you might find something useful. Now to complete the remaining 6 boards..

Edited by Fay Singpoint
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting subject to model,

 

Been interested in the widened lines since seeing 31's at York road KX and watching a Cravens climb struggle into platform 15 (?). Travelling to college in 78-9 from KX to Liverpool St saw the Bedford -Moorgate service with the Rolls Royce hydraulic DMU's but didn't ride them.

 

Looking back probably should of done it just the once.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest oldlugger

Very interesting idea for a layout Fay; I'll be watching this one progress. In the mean time, here's a video that you might not have seen (apologies if you have!)

 

 

Cheers

Simon

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Make that east of Farringdon and west of Stratford. :D

Ooopps, sorry Boss - maybe I was looking south when I thought that I was facing north.

 

Just which way is up?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have experimented with self locking hinges for the support legs as I wanted to avoid flaffing around with trestles or independent bracing. The hinges do give some movement so I will be adding self contained bracing.

 

In theory nothing special but you might find something useful.

 

Mechanical interlocking for the hinges? Must see what "The Signal Box" has to say about that!

 

I shall be interested to see your design for the bracing of the legs.

 

A couple of questions relating to the photos:-

 

[1] there is no diagonal bracing so what deters the boards from twisting?

 

[2] as yet the ends show no holes or fittings for aligning / securing adjacent boards. What method will you use?

 

thank you, Graham (who is now back to earth and looking at... a monitor)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very interesting idea for a layout Fay; I'll be watching this one progress. In the mean time, here's a video that you might not have seen (apologies if you have!)

Cheers

Simon

 

Hi Simon,

 

Yes I have seen the video. There is an earlier video on YouTube, which I have been unable to locate, that shows the open air Moorgate station that i am trying to model albeit the film was taken in the 1950's whereas I am modelling the early 1930's

 

 

A couple of questions relating to the photos:-

 

[1] there is no diagonal bracing so what deters the boards from twisting?

 

[2] as yet the ends show no holes or fittings for aligning / securing adjacent boards. What method will you use?

 

 

Hi Graham

 

[1] In theory the 18mm ply cross braces should be sufficient to prevent twisting. "Hopefully"

 

[2] The alignment holes will be drilled in pairs. What you see is the first board off the production line so no holes have been drilled until the next adjacent board is finished.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Graham,

 

I thought I had good quality 6mm birch ply .

 

Hate to disappoint but that ply is neither good quality nor Birch Ply (ie Birch through and through, which is what is usually meant by the term Birch Ply). It looks like the usual far eastern rubbish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hate to disappoint but that ply is neither good quality nor Birch Ply (ie Birch through and through, which is what is usually meant by the term Birch Ply). It looks like the usual far eastern rubbish.

 

Hi,

 

You are sort of correct :fie: ..... I brought the 6mm birch ply sheets from a local timber merchant. The ply sheets didn't have any labels or markings on them so they could have come from anywhere.

 

After some problems with the first set of ends it was off to the big orange DIY store to get some 12mm and 18mm external quality (WBP) ply that does have Made (or grown) in Malaysia stamped on it. I am continuing to use the 6mm birch ply for the surface of each board. The finish of the sides and cross members looks a little scruffy but the idea is to have a session with the orbital sander and then paint the undersides gloss white.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is what real birch ply looks like: http://www.finnforest.co.uk/products/panelproducts/Pages/Birchplywood.aspx. Notice ALL plys are the same thickness.

 

It comes from Finland or the baltic states (some times from Canada).

 

If it dosen't look like this it's not Birch Ply.

 

There is some plywood about that has a very thin birch finish that gets sold to the unsuspecting as Birch ply. You can easily tell the difference as the inner plys are a different thickness to the outer thin ply.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at the picture of how you clamped the wood I suspect this may be the cause of the problem. When we made the boards using this method for our layout we clamped each to a substantial length of aluminium angle and they have been straight for 20+ years now without a problem.

Edited by Paul Cram
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is what real birch ply looks like: http://www.finnfores...rchplywood.aspx. Notice ALL plys are the same thickness.

 

Wonderful. After a search on their site I have discovered a very local stockist. I may well pay them a visit for materials when I get round to the next lot of baseboards.

 

 

Looking at the picture of how you clamped the wood I suspect this may be the cause of the problem. When we made the boards using this method for our layout we clamped each to a substantial length of aluminium angle and they have been straight for 20+ years now without a problem.

 

Hard to believe I got an O level in woodwork many many years ago. Many thanks for tip although I suspect part of the problem was with the 6mm plywood sheet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was brought up in a furniture town and given woodworking lessons by old-masters. So when we were looking for 6mm BIrch ply for our new club 7mm layout I visited all of the usual suspects and got very disappointed as to what was on offer "off-the-shelf". I did find the "finn-forest" web site and used the search facility... and I got entries for businesses which I had visited!. So I used Google and searched for exterior birch ply... and found that Wickes would supply against order. The Wickes website gave details of their offering and those details gave me confidence to order.

 

Wickes delivered today.. fifteen 8'x4' sheets of 6.5mm birch ply as illustrated by the web reference given earlier. Price was £420 for the wood and free delivery. I am pleased with what has been received.... no warp or twist with clean cut edges and right angle corners.

 

regards, Graham

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my experience when the thicker plys start to warp nothing will stop them whereas 4mm and 6mm ply hasn't the strength to warp if it is braced. Diagonal braces make a lot of difference. BTW don't store it by leaning it against a wall store it flat and build the boards on a flat surface makes a lot of difference.

Don

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my experience when the thicker plys start to warp nothing will stop them whereas 4mm and 6mm ply hasn't the strength to warp if it is braced.

 

No doubt time will tell... Mind you have also heard horror stories about 6mm ply warping (even when diagonal bracing is used).

 

Here are the first 3 boards (12' length in total) erected with a back scene temporarily fitted. The purpose of this exercise was to make sure I was happy with the working height of the layout and the back scene, and to check the stability of the support legs, before proceeding any further. The boards are just clamped together and not properly levelled.

 

post-6371-0-00754000-1334445235_thumb.jpg

 

I've another 4 boards to build which will bring the layout to 28' (half its final length) and then it's look at track laying....(something to do during the Olympics :) )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.