Steam Trams

[maunsel]

The book How To Go Tram & Tramway Modelling by David Voice and published by PSL has a steam tramway layout on page 111 by Don Sibley called Pontevedro. This was a continental style layout, rather than British. If you feel brave David Voices's book London's Tramways: Their History & How to Model Them also by PSL has instructions for a scratch built Merryweather Steam tram loco in OO.

 

One often overlooked steam tramway was the narrow gauge 2' 6" Alford & Sutton Tramway in Lincolnshire. My only book on this is the Alford & Sutton Tramway by George Dow, published by the author in 1984 (originally published as Locomotion Paper No 1 by the Oakwood Press in 1947). This is the line upon which Smallbrook Studios have based their steam tram loco. There is some Googlable info on this tramway.

[£1.38]

There's a nice drawing here

 

http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/60/Tramway.htm

[R A Watson]

Steam traction was used on a part of what became Plymouth Corporation Tramways (Plymouth, Devonport & District Tramways Company Ltd.) in the period 1882 - 1889 using five 0-4-0, locos products of the William Wilkinson of Wigan Company.

 

These were reputed to be very similar to the De Winton cofffee pot but fully enclosed and I believe at least some ended up in the slate quarries in North Wales after the system reverted to more traditional horse traction before eventual electrification.

[Mac]

St Petersburg : pre1914

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7GJ7VxfhCA

[£1.38]

For something totally different, try a Baldwin

 

Drawing and photos here http://www.jehubbard.com/hobbies/steam_dummies.htm

 

They seem to have been used a lot down under as well as in America. There are photos elsewhere of them pulling double-deck trailers. I almost fancy doing one of these myself now I have found the drawing

 

Shapeways do one in N scale - presumably you power the trailer rather than the loco.

[£1.38]

Merryweather tram drawing and photos here - just scroll down the page

 

http://www.buntbahn.de/modellbau/viewtopic.php?p=280578

 

These, or similar ones by the same manufacturer were used as far afield as New Zealand.

[Mac]

£1.38!

 

Thanks for posting those two first class website Links.

 

The Merryweather trams look good though I prefer the appearance

of Manning Wardle's steam tram.

 

Mac.

[Ravenser]

For something totally different, try a Baldwin

 

Drawing and photos here http://www.jehubbard...eam_dummies.htm

 

They seem to have been used a lot down under as well as in America. There are photos elsewhere of them pulling double-deck trailers. I almost fancy doing one of these myself now I have found the drawing

 

Shapeways do one in N scale - presumably you power the trailer rather than the loco.

 

 

Thanks for the link - the drawing is potentially useful .

 

To be strictly accurate, there was only really one Down Under user - the Tramways Dept of the NSW Colonial Government (later State Government) aka NSW Govt Tramways from 1879 to 1937 . They had 122 Baldwin motors out of a total fleet of 132 steam units (the steam tram at Crich was built by Beyer Peacock - preferred supplier of the NSW Govt Rlys - for Sydney , but the Tramways people preferred Baldwins and sent it back...) . They were mostly used in Sydney . Full details in NSW Tramcar Handbook Part 2 (Chinn/McCarthy, SPER, Loftus NSW 1976 and reprints) which is essentially a book about steam trams , with a few other bits thrown in for good measure

 

They were principally used on the Main Sydney system (56 route miles of it) prior to electrification in the Edwardian era , but also at Newcastle (NSW), in parts through to the early 30s, and a lot were then passed on to various new isolated steam lines in the outer Sydney suburbs, or new systems at Broken Hill and Maitland . These latter basically folded in 1926-32, with the last Government steam tram operation at Kogarah going directly from steam trams to trolleybuses in 1937 . There was also a private operation at Parramatta in the west of Sydney, owned by the ferry company which connected with ferries and lighters , carried freight in railway wagons, used ex NSWGT stock , as well as some Kitson and other motors later rebuilt to look like Baldwins, and had gone so far in the railway direction that it was really more of a light railway run with steam trams, a bit like Wantage . This expired early in 1943 after the river lighters were requisitioned for the war effort

 

Three of the Sydney Baldwin motors survive -

 

1A of 1879 in the Powerhouse Museum, Sydney:

http://www.powerhous...ase/?irn=214923

http://www.powerhous...ase/?irn=213344

 

103A of 1891 at the current location of the steam tram preservation society in the Blue Mountains

http://www.infobluem.../exhibits.shtml

 

One was sold to Christchurch NZ and another to Wanganui NZ, - the latter (ex Sydney 100 , which never got its A suffix) is preserved in Auckland

 

The double deck trailers (NSWGT classes A, A1-A6 ) were withdrawn or cut down to single deck by 1894. The photo seems to be from NSW Tramcar Handbook Part 2 , where it is said to be motor 3 and an A class trailer in early form (probably taken in the first few years of Sydney steam 1879-81)

 

To be honest canvas awnings aren't going to be terribly easy to model and almost any other Sydney trailer would be an easier proposition . The A3-A6 classes with hard tops to the upper decks and enclosed plain lower crossbench compartments would be easier.

 

This photo seems to be an A2 with glazed sliding doors (a detail of the photo is used in NSW Tramcar Handbook dated c1883 , so its probably the only known shot of this class)

http://www.flickr.co...per/5487520991/

 

There is fantastic material in this flickr stream - some very rare late 19th century tram material, photos taken from the last service car on the Sydney system , NSW railway material , Sydney ferry material, shots from the tramway museum at Loftus nr Sydney

 

 

Personally I'd go for a C2 steam trailer - de facto the standard Sydney steam trailer

http://nla.gov.au/nla.pic-vn4596660

http://www.panoramio.../photo/20612252

 

 

That is, if I knew where there were drawings and full dimensions - which I don't. A trip to Valley Heights in the Blue Mountains with a measuring tape isn't very practical

 

There is some interesting material on the Kogarah/San Souci line here:

http://sanssouciphotos.blogspot.com/

[£1.38]

Thanks Ravenser

 

That is all really fascinating!

 

I wasn't planning on modelling Sydney specifically - rather a fictitious line, but the stuff you have mentioned is really useful!

[Danny W]

Thank you all for your replies and information. Sorry not relpied sooned because of family circumstances. Mostly better now. Just starting to get back to normal with a visit to Manchester Show yesterday, so may actually do something soon.

 

Dan W

[Klink]

This is a rather interesting DVD I have in my possession:

 

Steam Tram Nostalgia

 

Its has some very interesting footage of the Steam Trams that used to operate around Kogarah and Parramatta, as well as the preserved and operational 103A.

Might be worth a look for you!

[micknich2003]

Are you talking of a Street Steam Tramway? If so get in touch, I have drawings of most types of "Street" engine plus many photo's of a Kitson engine. micknich2003@yahoo.co.uk

 

Someone by the name of "Luke" recently contacted me for information. I part replied, and then in error deleted the E Mail. If you think I can help further please get in touch. Best Wishes, Mick.

[micknich2003]

Back in Hull to get more details of the Kitson Steam Tram.

 

Does anyone know if a dedicated layout has ever been built to solely display British

Steam Cars in an urban setting?

 

Pricing the best deal for two volumes of Gladwin's British Steam Tram.

I noticed you can get Volumes 1&2 for approx £20 & £30 respectively.

 

Mac.

I have in mind a freelance Hull based Steam Tramway layout. I will call it the "Newington and Dairycoates Tramway". Living in Hull I'm not fat away from some very nice buildings which would make an excellant background. Admittedly today, they are past their "Sell By Date"; but we modellers know how to turn back the clock. I would date the model 1899, the year the electric trams arrived. This would allow the overhead poles to be erected but without the complications of the wiring. One end of the tramway could be "Lost" with an Hull & Barnsley Rly over bridge and the other with a North Eastern Rly level crossing. I retire next year, so who knows? Best Wishes, Mick.

[jamie92208]

I have in mind a freelance Hull based Steam Tramway layout. I will call it the "Newington and Dairycoates Tramway". Living in Hull I'm not fat away from some very nice buildings which would make an excellant background. Admittedly today, they are past their "Sell By Date"; but we modellers know how to turn back the clock. I would date the model 1899, the year the electric trams arrived. This would allow the overhead poles to be erected but without the complications of the wiring. One end of the tramway could be "Lost" with an Hull & Barnsley Rly over bridge and the other with a North Eastern Rly level crossing. I retire next year, so who knows? Best Wishes, Mick.

 

You could always join the TMS and do your research in the new library at Crich. Not only do they have all the Steam tram Books but have a wealth of other source material with copies of the relevant periodicals etc. As a nationally recognised Museum I believe that their archives have to be open for genuine study. Good luck with your project though if the past 10 years since I retired are anything to go by you won't get as much modellig time as you imagine.

 

Jamie

[Mac]

I have in mind a freelance Hull based Steam Tramway layout. I will call it the "Newington and Dairycoates Tramway". Living in Hull I'm not fat away from some very nice buildings which would make an excellant background. Admittedly today, they are past their "Sell By Date"; but we modellers know how to turn back the clock. I would date the model 1899, the year the electric trams arrived. This would allow the overhead poles to be erected but without the complications of the wiring. One end of the tramway could be "Lost" with an Hull & Barnsley Rly over bridge and the other with a North Eastern Rly level crossing. I retire next year, so who knows? Best Wishes, Mick.

 

Your proposed layout sounds very interesting Mick.

 

Re' Hull structures/ background details: I would recommend any of the

3 volumes of F S Smith's Drawings(Images of Victorian Hull).

 

Mac

[dullsteamer]

To be strictly accurate, there was only really one Down Under user - the Tramways Dept of the NSW Colonial Government (later State Government) aka NSW Govt Tramways from 1879 to 1937.

 

Not entirely correct. Apart from NSWGT, the Adelaide, Unley & Mitcham tramway had a vertical boiler Baldwin, which wound up with Sydney Ferries at Parramatta. The Bendigo tramway had Baldwins as well as locally-built copies, and the Belmont tramway in Brisbane had another Baldwin. Saywell's Rockdale-Brighton line had an ex-NSWGT Baldwin, which was no.100, now at MOTAT in Auckland. Other NSWGT Baldwins were sold to various collieries and other private lines, and a number were tranferred to the Public Works Department.

 

There was also a private operation at Parramatta in the west of Sydney, owned by the ferry company which connected with ferries and lighters , carried freight in railway wagons, used ex NSWGT stock , as well as some Kitson and other motors later rebuilt to look like Baldwins

 

Jeanneret's tramway, which was later owned by Sydney Ferries, had a Baldwin motor built new, to the NSWGT design, as well as the second-hand examples. The only tram loco they rebuilt to resemble a Baldwin was one of the Kitsons.

 

Personally I'd go for a C2 steam trailer - de facto the standard Sydney steam trailer...That is, if I knew where there were drawings and full dimensions - which I don't. A trip to Valley Heights in the Blue Mountains with a measuring tape isn't very practical.

 

I'm the bloke who produced the drawing referred to on John Hubbard's page. I have good drawings of the C2 trailers.

 

As you might gather, I have more than a passing interest in the Baldwin motors we ran here. I've been lucky enough to have worked on and run all three survivors. 28A is back in the store at Castle Hill, while 100 has just been put back into traffic after an overhaul.

 

 

That's me on 103A, back in the days before the fire at Parramatta Park.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.