Beresford Junction Posted March 27, 2011 Author Share Posted March 27, 2011 Can someone point me to information on how to build a control panel for operating signals. I'm thinking of one where a push button flicks the state of the point, or perhaps a small switch does the same and then a red / green LED for both tracks to indicate which ones are open. Thanks Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Phil I used the gaugemaster PM1 point motors which have the aux switch built in. This can be used to change control panel LEDs (like I did on Chadwood) or signals. If you are creating something similar to mine, then I'll post some more details. I got all of my info off the forums anyway, but can't specifically remember where! Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poindexter Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 I would defo use the point motors Dave (Rammy) recommended (I used old peco ones that didnt have the aux switch... I'll use PM1's next time!!) I built my control panel out of thin ply with a Mimic type diagram produced in Microsoft paint then laminated over and stuck to the box. For the electronics side I have followed the advice on here and, for easy reference, on brian lamberts web site http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical.htm and his excellent book "The Newcomer's Guide to Model Railways" which is just over a tenner on Amazon now (you could maybe buy it through RMwebs Amazon book store???) Have a look at the panel on my layout its really simple (but no LEDs). I have used buttons for my 3 way points but for normal points I just used On-Off-On switches that always return to the off setting (see my video). I would recommend a CDU to fire the points and to stop the point motors burning out by being left in the on position. I built my own CDU (about £4), again off the pages of Brian Lambert, but this was just so I could practice my soldering skills. I believe you can get a good new one for about £10. Why not try a small mimic panel on say 4 points, thats only 4 switches, a strip of wood( no need to build a box) and a few lengths of wire that way you will get a feel for whats needed, practice your soldering and only have spent the price of a couple of pints!! It really is satisfying when you flick a switch and your points change using nothing more than bunch of wires and switches that you have soldered together. Guy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave ottney Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Phil, Thanks for the explanation about terminus station operations. I missed the turnout (points) near the building end of the siding. Your operation makes all sorts of sense and of course your note that the prototypes have multiple power units stationed at each end of the train obviously makes worrying about where the loco is mute. That I've seen on numerous occasions while traveling on continental trains. In the modeling realm it just means that you have to explain to the "boss" that you really do need more locomotives Ah back to watching how the BJ develops.......... Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beresford Junction Posted March 28, 2011 Author Share Posted March 28, 2011 Phil, Thanks for the explanation about terminus station operations. I missed the turnout (points) near the building end of the siding. Your operation makes all sorts of sense and of course your note that the prototypes have multiple power units stationed at each end of the train obviously makes worrying about where the loco is mute. That I've seen on numerous occasions while traveling on continental trains. In the modeling realm it just means that you have to explain to the "boss" that you really do need more locomotives Ah back to watching how the BJ develops.......... Dave Hi Dave Glad the photos made sense. Do you have any photos of your layout(s)? Is there an equivalent of RMWeb in the US? Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beresford Junction Posted March 28, 2011 Author Share Posted March 28, 2011 Phil I used the gaugemaster PM1 point motors which have the aux switch built in. This can be used to change control panel LEDs (like I did on Chadwood) or signals. If you are creating something similar to mine, then I'll post some more details. I got all of my info off the forums anyway, but can't specifically remember where! Dave Hi Dave (& Guy) Thanks and yes if you could post some more info on it, that would be great. I've looked at your pictures and wiring, but am still sort of the stage before that. As for the Gaugemaster motors, I hadn't thought of them. I travel past Arundel (Ford, where they are is about 2 mins off the A27) about once a month so always pop in - it's a great place. I'll have a look next time I'm passing. I suppose my questions are: Do I need a Capacitor Discharge Unit, and if so what are good / where I do I get one from? Power - I'm currently using the aux power (12v) of my old Hornby R9000 (I think) from the 1970's or '80s - will this be OK for now, and what should I really upgrade to to power all this stuff - I currently also run mu LED's off that. Where does this common return come in? I have a + and - ? What were the bi-colour LED's you used, and where do I get them? What kind of switches do I want, and again where do I get them. I should point out that I haven't used a soldering iron since I was a teenager in the early '80s, and even then mainly got my older brother to do it, so I also need to invest in a basic iron - again any advice. Sorry for all the questions. Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave ottney Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Phil, I've been a bit remiss in taking photos of my N scale layout and for that matter my Fn3 (1:20.3 scale narrow gauge). I'll have to get the camera out. As far a US sites that are like RMweb I frequent the following- TrainBoard.com Forums ModelRailroadForums.com - Powered by vBulletin The Whistle Post - Model Railroad Forum - Powered by vBulletin Freerails forum Railroad Line Forums for pics I also go to RailPictures.Net - The BEST railroad photos on the 'net! and for large scale stuff Large Scale Central © - Trains and More myLargescale.com Forums I'm becoming a real fan of UK and European stuff though often I have no clue what the heck I'm looking at. Just starting to get a feel for the UK railway eras but hopelessly lost identifying locomotives. Ah well that's what keeps the hobby fresh, learning new stuff. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beresford Junction Posted March 28, 2011 Author Share Posted March 28, 2011 Phil, I've been a bit remiss in taking photos of my N scale layout and for that matter my Fn3 (1:20.3 scale narrow gauge). I'll have to get the camera out. As far a US sites that are like RMweb I frequent the following- TrainBoard.com Forums ModelRailroadForums.com - Powered by vBulletin The Whistle Post - Model Railroad Forum - Powered by vBulletin Freerails forum Railroad Line Forums for pics I also go to RailPictures.Net - The BEST railroad photos on the 'net! and for large scale stuff Large Scale Central © - Trains and More myLargescale.com Forums I'm becoming a real fan of UK and European stuff though often I have no clue what the heck I'm looking at. Just starting to get a feel for the UK railway eras but hopelessly lost identifying locomotives. Ah well that's what keeps the hobby fresh, learning new stuff. Dave Hi Dave Thanks for sharing all the links - I've had a brief look already and will dive in fully over the next few days - I suspect like you in reverse, it'll be a big learning curve, however as I've only returned to modelling after a break of about 25 years, a lot of it is all new to me here in the UK. I look forward to seeing some pics when you've got your camera out. Cheers Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beresford Junction Posted March 28, 2011 Author Share Posted March 28, 2011 Tonight has been an evening of painting. First the backboard to a better shade of blue The hole you can see is for the wiring for the LED lights inside the station building. Here you can see the change in track plan where I need to take up the cork previously stuck down and painted and finally pained the low relief factories / warehouses from Ten Commandments (using the blue that sky used to be). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Hi Dave (& Guy) Thanks and yes if you could post some more info on it, that would be great. I've looked at your pictures and wiring, but am still sort of the stage before that. As for the Gaugemaster motors, I hadn't thought of them. I travel past Arundel (Ford, where they are is about 2 mins off the A27) about once a month so always pop in - it's a great place. I'll have a look next time I'm passing. I suppose my questions are: Do I need a Capacitor Discharge Unit, and if so what are good / where I do I get one from? Power - I'm currently using the aux power (12v) of my old Hornby R9000 (I think) from the 1970's or '80s - will this be OK for now, and what should I really upgrade to to power all this stuff - I currently also run mu LED's off that. Where does this common return come in? I have a + and - ? What were the bi-colour LED's you used, and where do I get them? What kind of switches do I want, and again where do I get them. I should point out that I haven't used a soldering iron since I was a teenager in the early '80s, and even then mainly got my older brother to do it, so I also need to invest in a basic iron - again any advice. Sorry for all the questions. Phil No problem Phil. I'll try and nip in the loft tomorrow to take a few photos for you. I think that will be easier than wiring diagrams and all that - well at least that's what I find. I am using an old controller with multiple outputs to power everything. The CDU for the point motors runs off an accessory output (16V ac I think) and the LEDs are powered from one of the two 12V DC controller outputs. I will probably use the other 12V output to control building lights in the future. My LEDs were from Farnell and switches (ON-OFF-ON) from CPC. I also got a very cheap soldering iron (approx £4) from CPC. I realise its not the best, but its good enough for a complete novice like me. I will find the part numbers out for you. Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poindexter Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Do I need a Capacitor Discharge Unit, and if so what are good and where I do I get one from? I think so. It allows your point motors to get a good wallop of energy AND it protects your point motors from burning out if you leave the switch pushed on to long (it gives a pulse of electrical power then switches off till you release the switch before recharging). Here are 2 links. I have not used either they are just examples. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Capacitor-Discharge-Unit-Points-Motors-CDU-/370453410874?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item5640be743a http://www.ehattons.com/stockdetail.aspx?SID=7157 Power - I'm currently using the aux power (12v) of my old Hornby R9000 (I think) from the 1970's or '80s - will this be OK for now, and what should I really upgrade to to power all this stuff - I currently also run mu LED's off that. I would just use that for your building leds and get a better, dedicated, power supply for your point motors some people use a laptop power supply rated at 18v or more. Where does this common return come in? I have a + and - ? Common return is normally the -ve . Basically you can join all your -ve wires together off your point motors and just feed one wire back to your CDU -ve. Conversely the one wire that would come off your +ve CDU supply is feed to each of your switches in turn (see Daves first mimic panel wiring post on his thread. The first wire he puts in that links his switches is the +ve wire, the other wires added later are the point switching feeds). What were the bi-colour LED's you used, and where do I get them? Examples here http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10-x-3mm-Bi-colour-Diffused-LED-Bi-red-yellow-green-/260736448784?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item3cb51a7910 What kind of switches do I want, and again where do I get them. Examples here http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10-X-ON-OFF-ON-MINIATURE-TOGGLE-SWITCH-POINTS-CONTROL-/270468714421?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item3ef9310fb5 I use an Antex soldering iron like this one http://www.rapidonline.com/sku/Tools-Fasteners-Production-Equipment/Soldering-Equipment/Soldering-Irons/Lead-free-soldering-irons/73126/85-5090 I bought this one because I didn't know what else to buy and this was recommended. It has worked well for me and I am a complete novice like yourself (25+ years away from the hobby). I bought all my stuff from a local electronics shop the links I have provided are just examples. Hope this helps Guy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beresford Junction Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 Hi Guy & Dave Thanks for all the really useful info - I'll do some reading (and shopping), then no doubt be back with more questions. Cheers Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 I used these LEDs from Farnell and these switches from CPC I also bought this soldering iron and this stand for a fiver from CPC !!! Not sure how these prices compare with Guy's as I can't access Ebay from work! Can't imagine why? lol Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beresford Junction Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 I used these LEDs from Farnell and these switches from CPC I also bought this soldering iron and this stand for a fiver from CPC !!! Not sure how these prices compare with Guy's as I can't access Ebay from work! Can't imagine why? lol Dave Hi Dave Thanks for the info - strange that about eBay from work. Fortunately, I work from home most of the time so have no problems in that department. In fact a couple of more Grids have turned up today from a certain on-line auction site bringing the total to seven. Cheers Phil 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beresford Junction Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 Thanks for all the advice. Various bits and bobs ordered, and I've found a 18v adapter from a spare ADSL router that I guess I can re-use by just snipping the plug off the end? A whole new (and exciting world). Am I right that with the PM1, I can also attach up a signal (in due course) that will change at the same time as the point? Cheers Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Am I right that with the PM1, I can also attach up a signal (in due course) that will change at the same time as the point? I don't see any reason why the PM1 aux outputs couldn't be split to feed poth the mimic panel and signals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beresford Junction Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 I've just been having a look under the board and of course four of the nine points are directly above a batten under the board, so I'll have to do a bit of hacking under there first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beresford Junction Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 Here is the final(?) track layout for this side. The old cork taken up, and the new down and painted. The point motors, switches, LED's and CDU have arrived, however the soldering iron hasn't yet. So I'll have a go at fitting a couple of motors before I head off and building my control unit - I think I'll have one for this side for now and worry about the rest later. This is my first initial thoughts about the layout of the sidings for the other side. Going from right to left, there are the two roundy lines. The next one is a way in and out of the sidings, with enough room to pull past the points and then reverse in (based on a pic I saw of Scott's layout Bocott - here but the mirror image) with the addition of an engine yard and fueling point / buildings. The EWS class 56 you can see at the very top/back is where the way in/out (is there a technical name for this?) joins back on to the main loop. All still early days hence the track just laid roughly in place, and I think the sidings need spacing apart. I'm also debating if I need to hide the curved track with some kind of hill/bridge / false background. Another consideration. As have some DC and some DCC, I'm planning on sort of running two different (unconnected) layouts for now. This yard and the associated loop will be DCC, with the other loop and the station I've been building as DC (hence a linear layout being able to isolate loco's via points). Thoughts? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beresford Junction Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 The newly painted factory low relief units. I've also weathered one slightly - I think it needs more, but thought I'd start off with a little then add more. Cheers Phil 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Looking good mate. Love the pics on your last 2 posts. The trackwork is looking good and you've made a good job of painting the warehouses. I wish you would slow down though as you are making me look really slow! I popped into the loft tonight to take a few pics of my panel for you, but it was quite hard to photograph now installed. Instead I have knocked up a very basic diagram which shows where all the wiring goes. I will try to neaten it up soon, but hopefully gives you an idea. Dave 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beresford Junction Posted April 1, 2011 Author Share Posted April 1, 2011 Looking good mate. Love the pics on your last 2 posts. The trackwork is looking good and you've made a good job of painting the warehouses. I wish you would slow down though as you are making me look really slow! I popped into the loft tonight to take a few pics of my panel for you, but it was quite hard to photograph now installed. Instead I have knocked up a very basic diagram which shows where all the wiring goes. I will try to neaten it up soon, but hopefully gives you an idea. Dave Hi Dave That's great and makes really good sense to me. Couple of supplementary questions: 1) Are the yellow/blue wires to the LED's AC or DC? 2) Do I need to put a resistor in series with the LED's, if so what size and where? In terms of the buildings, the brick / dirt on the blue is actually just pastel (wax crayons to you and I). I suspect it's a bit easier just walking down to the basement than going up into the loft. I used to have my layout in the loft in my youth and remember it being either too hot or too cold. I'm looking forward to some pics of the new additions to Chadwood. Cheers Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 1) Are the yellow/blue wires to the LES's AC or DC? The yellow / blue wires are a 12V DC supply. As this is from the controller, I can actually turn it up and down to get the brightness of the LEDs right. The black / red wires to the CDU are a 16V ac supply (I seem to remember) - not the second 12V dc supply. i will use the 12V later for lighting. 2) Do I need to put a resistor in series with the LED's, if so what size and where? Yes, sorry I forgot to detail that. I fitted resistors to the LED inputs (wires D and E from the point motors). Use the online LED Resistor Calculator to calculate what size resistor to use. I fitted the resistor to the LED but I suppose it may actually have been easier to fit it at the point motor end. It would have saved a bit of clutter under the panel. Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beresford Junction Posted April 1, 2011 Author Share Posted April 1, 2011 Thanks again Dave. It's all a steep learning curve, but fun at the same time with this electrics lark - it's all starting to come back to me about how to read resistors, with the stripes etc. No sign of the soldering iron yet so I'll have to amuse myself with other things - I have been and bought some more plywood to finish off the 'sky' round the whole layout. Last night was fun again as I got the trains running and was experimenting with the various sections of track, although I do find trying to control all of the loco's at once a bit of a headache - especially when filming too - a crash narrowly averted here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n98sCQH0GNc&feature=player_profilepage Cheers Phil 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poindexter Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Hi Phil. Cracking progress, makes me want to crack on with mine.I would recommend popping down to the library (or amazon) and getting Electronics for Dummies. I found it invaluble for getting my head round transistors,resistors, LED's, diodes etc. Seems a bit patronising when you first start it but it really is a good basic reference manual. Loving the line up of Grids and the low relief buildings. Keep up the rapid progress Guy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beresford Junction Posted April 1, 2011 Author Share Posted April 1, 2011 Hi Phil. Cracking progress, makes me want to crack on with mine.I would recommend popping down to the library (or amazon) and getting Electronics for Dummies. I found it invaluble for getting my head round transistors,resistors, LED's, diodes etc. Seems a bit patronising when you first start it but it really is a good basic reference manual. Loving the line up of Grids and the low relief buildings. Keep up the rapid progress Guy Hi Guy, Thanks, and you're right I need to do a bit of reading before I get in too deep - I'm sure it'll all come back to me - I've not made any use of my A-level Physics for the past 25 years so now is obviously the time... I'm always torn between cracking on and doing the ultimate/best ever thing, however I find if I aim for that nothing happens, so my plan has been to get something done then go back and upgrade having learned along the way. I fancy doing some scratch built low relief buildings and have bought all the materials, but seem to be back to major woodworking and painting - I find this hobby interesting in it's extremes - serious construction with saws and hammers through to fiddling round with things 1mm in size. I look forward to seeing more of your updates. Cheers Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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