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NCB South Wales area "paddy trains"


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I've posted this in the Help / Questions section of the forum - and will understand if the moderator deletes one or t'other thread - I've posted it here as well as the 'rustfans' amongst you may be able to help.

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The National Coal Board (NCB) ran "paddy trains" on two South Wales colliery systems until the turn of the 1970s.

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One was based on the Talywain & Blaenserchan system, and utilised former GWR vans.

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The second was on the Pontardulais - Graig Merthyr system and used what appeared to be ex-LMS Dia.1664 vans, possibly an ex-SR banana van and a bogie coach whose provenance I cannot make out.

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I seem to recall an article published some years ago, about the Talywain "paddy train" and believe it may have been in the Welsh railway Archive, the magazine of the Welsh railways Research Circle (WRRC).

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Does anyone have access to this magazine, and can identify which volume and edition it may be ?

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I would like to identify which GWR diagram vans were used at Talywain (V14, V16 ?)with a view to knocking a rake together.

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Any help would be appreciated.

 

Brian R

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There was an article on the Talywain to Blaenserchan 'passenger train' in the Welsh Railways Research Circle journal. I should point out that the train was always referred to as the 'Carriages' never the Paddy Train.

 

There are photos of the vans on an enthuiast special at

http://railwaysofwales.fotopic.net/c1704595.html

 

Originally a set of coaches were used, later vans replaced them.

 

Articles about Talywain are quite plentiful, there have been four articles in British Railway Journal by Desmond Coakham featuring excellent photographs maps etc and first hand observations. There has also been an extensive article in Railway Bylines recounting the operation of this fascinating system.

 

The Graig Merthyr miners train finished in 1970 and latterly comprised some box vans, the coach they had was unused towards the end. Again there was an extensive two part article on the system in Railway Bylines including photos showing the bogie coach. Often the odd empty wagon from the landsales depot was tagged on the back as well.

 

See

http://railwaysofwales.fotopic.net/c1709048.html

for photos of the vans in use on an enthusiast special with one of the original Barclays. Notice that for some reason the Barclays at Graig Merthyr ran without the cladding on the cylinders. This seems to be a South Wales trait as many of the NCB locos in South Wales ran like this including Llantanum Abbey at Mountain Ash, quite pointless as there is nothing covered by it that you would need regular access to.

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There was an article on the Talywain to Blaenserchan 'passenger train' in the Welsh Railways Research Circle journal. I should point out that the train was always referred to as the 'Carriages' never the Paddy Train.

 

There are photos of the vans on an enthuiast special at

http://railwaysofwales.fotopic.net/c1704595.html

 

Originally a set of coaches were used, later vans replaced them.

 

Articles about Talywain are quite plentiful, there have been four articles in British Railway Journal by Desmond Coakham featuring excellent photographs maps etc and first hand observations. There has also been an extensive article in Railway Bylines recounting the operation of this fascinating system.

 

Thanks for the response - Respite.

 

I referred to the services as a 'paddy train' as I thought more readers would know what I meant, as it was a common phrase elsewhere, especially underground.

 

I have Ernie Brack's page bookmarked, unfortunately the wgaons aren't to clear.

 

I had forgotten about the 'Bylines' article.

 

As for Desmond Coakham's BRJ series, I only have the one, for Branches Fork etc.

 

 

The Graig Merthyr miners train finished in 1970 and latterly comprised some box vans, the coach they had was unused towards the end. Again there was an extensive two part article on the system in Railway Bylines including photos showing the bogie coach. Often the odd empty wagon from the landsales depot was tagged on the back as well.

 

See

http://railwaysofwales.fotopic.net/c1709048.html

 

This pair of 'Bylines' articles I do have to hand.

 

 

Notice that for some reason the Barclays at Graig Merthyr ran without the cladding on the cylinders. This seems to be a South Wales trait as many of the NCB locos in South Wales ran like this including Llantanum Abbey at Mountain Ash, quite pointless as there is nothing covered by it that you would need regular access to.

 

As you indicate, the cylinder cladding was most likely left off, as it was puely cosmetic ?

 

 

In 1975 I bought a Western Welsh Omnibus Co day rover ticket, and caught the first Cardiff - Swansea service at Ely Bridge. At Swansea I changed to a Gorseinon bus and walked to Pontardulais, via Brynlliw Colliery, Grovesend.

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All was quiet at Brynlliw, and even quieter at Pontardulais ...... it was 'stop fortnight' and both pits were shut !

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I returned later that year, in the late autumn, and got soaked because it was what the Irish called a 'soft day' (?).

 

But, I recall slipping up the hillside at Goppa (referred to elsewhere as Banc-y-bo) and watching one of the Hunslets struggle around the sharp curve , past the platform and crossing heading for Graig Merthyr.

 

My next visit was on a Sunday, after Graig Merthyr closed and one loco saw occasional use in the sidings at 'Bont' - so all was quiet, passed Duport's at Llanelli the same day, again the works was closed.... highlight was pacing a pair of Cl.03s running light, along the coast, near carmarthen bay P.S.

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I never got to Talywain, albeit my spotting comrades did, on the enthusiast special that featured in Colin Boocock's railway World article circa 1970/71 and which I think is featured in Ernie Brack's fotopic shots.

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Thanks again for your help

 

Brian

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The tour photos are great, all those people packed into open wagons and all unfitted! Chances of that happening in today's H&S culture? Well think of a number between nought and zero! :lol:

 

There were similar trains run on the Cannock Colliery system (amongst others), an online article abut them can be found here http://chasewaterstuff.wordpress.com/cannock-wood-colliery-and-paddy-train-part-1-b-j-bull/

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I have some photocopies of the Welsh Railways Research Circle piece of the Blaenserchan carriages (unfortunately, I forgot to note the issue number on the back) from one of my periodic jaunts to Cardiff University Library. This doesn't show the later GWR vans but an altogether more characterful collection of an ex-NLR carriage, a converted 8 plank mineral, an unidentfied bogie coach (probably from one of the south Wales companies), and a conversion of a long-wheelbase van of some description which was apparently ex-Dowlais Iron Company. I can confirm, however, that the Banana van - which must have been a mite cosier than the ex-LMS types owing to the additional lagging - at Graig Merthyr was definitely an ex-SR type. ABS do a kit for it in 4mm (and perhaps 7mm as well).

 

Adam

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As you mention the BRJ issues are No. 52 of Summer 1994 for the Branches Fork article and Nos 63, 64 65 for the three part article on the Talywain system.

 

The Bylines article was in Vol 3 No.1 the Dec 97 -Jan 98 issue you can get probably get backcopies via the Irwell Press website.

 

The Welsh Railways Research Circle article on the carriages was in Vol 1 No.4 of their journal.

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The Bylines article was in Vol 3 No.1 the Dec 97 -Jan 98 issue you can get probably get backcopies via the Irwell Press website.

 

I have this at home, and forgot all about the article . . . . (it's an age thing, so they tell me, but I can't remeber who told me ?)

 

 

The Welsh Railways Research Circle article on the carriages was in Vol 1 No.4 of their journal.

 

Just purchased a copy of the relevant WRRC 'Archive' on line, so combined with BRJ No.65 I should be reasonably well 'tooled up'

 

Thanks to all who took the time and trouble to help me out.

(Incl Brian W. who responded to my 'other' post).

 

Brian R

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  • 4 months later...

I appreciate that this is a bit late in the day, but as part of the ongoing transfer of Ernie's Railway Archive to Flickr following the demise of Fotopic, a series of pictures from Graig Merthyr have reappeared:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/5869327128/in/set-72157626918178539/lightbox/

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/5869329998/in/set-72157626918178539/lightbox/

 

While I'm at it, there are a few from Talywain as well (there are more, but I'm only linking a handful):

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/5765177756/in/set-72157626693205137

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/5765177974/in/set-72157626693205137/

 

This one is also interesting, since it illustrates the survival of one of the earlier vehicles (a converted 8 plank mineral):

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/5764656553/in/set-72157626693205137/lightbox/

 

Adam

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