Gaugemaster

[Darius43]

5 hours ago, Darius43 said:

I am fortunate to live down the road from Gaugemaster and, whilst I know they generally charge full RRP,I have found them to be friendly and helpful and they have a fantastic range of products.  If you have time to kill, changing trains at Ford Station is never a chore.
 

They are also open on Sunday so I will be heading westwards later this morning to get the right* shade of blue paint for my NIR CAF 3000 model and quite possibly some other things.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

* or as close as I can find.

Nice drive to Gaugemaster this morning despite the usual shenanigans with the cars parked at the Arundel end of the road to Ford.  Got my paint (Railmatch DRS blue) and some Bachmann seated passengers.

 

A good morning well spent.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

Edited June 20, 2021 by Darius43

[fezza]

It is worth noting that Gaugemaster survive on more than retail - I doubt retail would keep them alive as the prices are uncompetitive.

 

My experience of their service is also poor -they claimed they didn't have facilities to test a loco I was buying, despite having an operational display layout right in front of them. Only after I said I wanted to speak to a manager did they relent - and only then grudgingly. I haven't gone back when so many better options are available.

[Darius43]

1 hour ago, fezza said:

It is worth noting that Gaugemaster survive on more than retail - I doubt retail would keep them alive as the prices are uncompetitive.

 

My experience of their service is also poor -they claimed they didn't have facilities to test a loco I was buying, despite having an operational display layout right in front of them. Only after I said I wanted to speak to a manager did they relent - and only then grudgingly. I haven't gone back when so many better options are available.

 

Its deja vu all over again.

[Bomag]

6 hours ago, Monkersson said:

1.   By your reckoning, because your professionally qualified cousin cant do basic arithmetic then that applies to everyone else thats professionally qualified?  Thank you for telling me that I'm rubbish at my job when you do not know me.

2.  It is well known that Farish/Bachmann/Hornby have produced excessive numbers of coaches less common than 2nd class vehicles, it is only obvious that these will still be lying around on shelves of full RRP retailers, selling these off cheap isn't going generate enough profit to allow the staff to retire to the Bahamas.

3.  Again, you do not know me to make such a statement that I am price insensitive.   I am time sensitive, I have a busy life, working, family, (including caring for an elderly relative) and other interests and thus I dont have the time (nor inclination) to spend on the internet searching for cheap items and filling out payment/shipping details - I'd much rather spend that time working on my layout.  I buy from those shops I know and trust to provide a good service, have the goods in stock and ship in good time.  They are not always the cheapest, and they are not always the most expensive.

4.  This shop supposedly had a live stock system, and I tried to cancel on a few occasions only to be met with broken promises.  The threat of taking action against them is what spurred on the eventual delivery.

5. Yes there are plenty of retailers who discount and ship quickly, but as I have said, I dont want to spend my leisure time on the internet filling out online forms.

6.  I have been building my layout for 3 or so years, the reason I like to order the items I have used on it from selected retailers is so I have the items to hand when I get the time, or inclination, to work on my layout, which means I dont have to spend that time searching on the internet to get items at a cheap price and wait a few days for delivery - I may by then not have time to work on my layout for another couple of weeks. 

7. I dont know the elasticity of demand for the model railway market, nor do I know (or care to) Gaugemasters reason for pricing their stock as they do, do you know?  What ever the reasons are, it doesnt seem to be doing them any harm.   There are plenty of shops, large and small who sell at or near RRP, yet all you hear is praise, because they give good service, perceived value for money.

 

Previous posts by other posters have shown a positive, very helpful side to Gaugemaster (which is what I experienced too) , its not all about price.

 

This can be an expensive hobby, but it is only expensive as you want it to be.  Its not the manufacturers nor shops that set your personal budget, its up to the individual to set a realistic budget, based on a multitude of reasons, not all financial.  If you cant have all the latest loco's or coaches etc then adjust your expectations, dont blame retailers for selling at RRP.

 

1. You implied that as you were professionally qualified you were competent to comment, I provided an example that disconnected being a professional from understanding of basic maths never mind market forces. I did not imply that this applied to you; however, you inferred it which is your issue not mine.

2. You seem to miss the point that having models on shelves doesn't generate any profits. You also equate matching market prices to 'selling off cheap'; this is two different things - matching prices is a method of rebalancing the market with more of it going to you. Whereas 'selling off cheap' would imply to me that this would be at, or below cost.

3. I can only go on your post - that you did not want to search to find if there were cheaper prices. Given that searching the internet is a trivial and quick activity and as you has plenty of time to post a six paragraph post on this forum the inference that you were price insensitive is valid based on your post. 

4. People are different, most people I know would have cancelled and contact their bank/credit card company at the first sign of problems.

5. I am dyslexic, but even I find filling my name, address and credit card details on commercial e-commerce sites trivial. While some shops have ersatz sales system which actually don't link stock and sales the are fairly easy to spot, although I expect that this will be less obvious to others.

6. This does not make sense to me; once you have got towards then end a section of your layout you are working on, on the assumption you have the next section planned already, why can't you order the parts for the next section for delivery before you finish the bit you are doing? That's what I do.

7. The post from fezza mentioned high prices and poor service. The only thing I normally hear about shops which sell at RRP is the pricing policy; the shops which were service and availability over price e.g. the late Wakefield Model Railway Centre, are a dying breed.

 

You miss the point that many retailers do routinely discount from RRP and there is a market median, being substantially above that is going to limit sales to the many who are price sensitive. In some cases market median is a few percent under RRP, in others its 10%. I don't 'blame' shops that sell everything at RRP irrespective of the market, I just don't buy from them.  I can appreciate fezza's disappointment of having anticipated a good retail experience and be disappointed, either through price policy or poor service.     

[Monkersson]

16 minutes ago, Bomag said:

1. You implied that as you were professionally qualified you were competent to comment, I provided an example that disconnected being a professional from understanding of basic maths never mind market forces. I did not imply that this applied to you; however, you inferred it which is your issue not mine.

2. You seem to miss the point that having models on shelves doesn't generate any profits. You also equate matching market prices to 'selling off cheap'; this is two different things - matching prices is a method of rebalancing the market with more of it going to you. Whereas 'selling off cheap' would imply to me that this would be at, or below cost.

3. I can only go on your post - that you did not want to search to find if there were cheaper prices. Given that searching the internet is a trivial and quick activity and as you has plenty of time to post a six paragraph post on this forum the inference that you were price insensitive is valid based on your post. 

4. People are different, most people I know would have cancelled and contact their bank/credit card company at the first sign of problems.

5. I am dyslexic, but even I find filling my name, address and credit card details on commercial e-commerce sites trivial. While some shops have ersatz sales system which actually don't link stock and sales the are fairly easy to spot, although I expect that this will be less obvious to others.

6. This does not make sense to me; once you have got towards then end a section of your layout you are working on, on the assumption you have the next section planned already, why can't you order the parts for the next section for delivery before you finish the bit you are doing? That's what I do.

7. The post from fezza mentioned high prices and poor service. The only thing I normally hear about shops which sell at RRP is the pricing policy; the shops which were service and availability over price e.g. the late Wakefield Model Railway Centre, are a dying breed.

 

You miss the point that many retailers do routinely discount from RRP and there is a market median, being substantially above that is going to limit sales to the many who are price sensitive. In some cases market median is a few percent under RRP, in others its 10%. I don't 'blame' shops that sell everything at RRP irrespective of the market, I just don't buy from them.  I can appreciate fezza's disappointment of having anticipated a good retail experience and be disappointed, either through price policy or poor service.     

 

1-7.  Please read my post again

 

I am missing no point, there are plenty of retailers that do discount, of that I am well aware and I use some of them, and there are plenty that dont, who I also use, and on both sides there are successful and unsuccessful retailers.  Many of those who are price sensitive have modelling ambitions within their means where the odd RRP item isn't going to dent their plans, not everyone has to have the latest model and multiples thereof.

 

Retailers can charge what they want for items, above RRP or max discount (in fact a supplier setting a maximum discount is technically illegal), they should not be judged on their pricing strategy. Retailers need to make a profit, how they do that is up to them.

 

I gave an example of my experience by a discounter.  If that retailer had told me at the time of ordering that they were having supply problems and the order would be delayed, I would have been completely fine with that, given it was during the pandemic last year, but their service was terrible, constant broken promises. 

 

I've also had poor treatment from full price retailers, which is why I stick to my preferred retailers, one is a very well known discounter, and one is a very well known seller at near to full RRP.  I get great service from both of them.  I get great service from all the retailers I use regularly.

 

A few posts back I mentioned my local model shop (local as in a 30 mile round trip), he has a very limited model railway selection, specialising in Air &  AFV kits, but he sells paints and other consumables at full RRP.  He knows what I buy and what I use it for.  Recently when he starting stocking a new paint range, he offered to show me the colours when dry to see if they would be of any use to me.  They where, and I bought a set of them - I bought the set he opened and tested for me, at RRP.  I could have got that set £4 cheaper online, but the service, and value of that personal service, far outweighed any financial saving.

 

Fezza could have checked Gaugemasters pricing online or in print before travelling to the shop, they are well known to sell at RRP so he really has no grounds of complaint on that front.  Customer service may have let him down, it happens in a retail establishments for various reasons.

 

 

[40F]

If anybody bothers to check Gaugemaster do discount the standard models stocked by other shops ie Bachmann and Hornby etc. They do not discount their own products in common with most other manufacturers . Have a look at Hornby`s site all RRP

[Darius43]

Meanwhile I have applied masking tape to a coach body, thinned the paint that I bought from Gaugemaster this morning and airbrushed it onto said coach body.   Three coats and it’s done.

 

 

Thanks to their being open on a Sunday I get to enjoy some modelling.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

We now return you to your scheduled argument.

[fezza]

On 20/06/2021 at 18:02, Monkersson said:

 

 

Fezza could have checked Gaugemasters pricing online or in print before travelling to the shop, they are well known to sell at RRP so he really has no grounds of complaint on that front.  Customer service may have let him down, it happens in a retail establishments for various reasons.

 

 

 

I was passing by as we have family in the area, but I would certainly advise anyone to check their prices before making a special journey.

 

In fairness their controllers are outstanding and I can't praise them enough, but I can't get my head around why their retail side is so uncompetitive. I guess it's because there are still a group of consumers who will pay  whatever they are charged, just as there are people who never switch their insurance or electricity supplier.

[SamThomas]

14 hours ago, fezza said:

 

 I can't get my head around why their retail side is so uncompetitive.

My post on Saturday @ 13:17 explained it, in a nutshell.

 

You will find that other outfits that import/distribute/wholesale to the trade that also have retail outlets operate in the same sort of fashion.

[fezza]

9 hours ago, SamThomas said:

My post on Saturday @ 13:17 explained it, in a nutshell.

 

You will find that other outfits that import/distribute/wholesale to the trade that also have retail outlets operate in the same sort of fashion.

 

Of course no one is expecting them to undercut their trade customers on products that they supply, but what about the rest that they don't supply to their trade customers or that their trade customers don't sell at all?

 

They've every right to operate this model, but it's only fair to advise new modellers that they can get much better value elsewhere.

 

Perhaps they do offer good service to some people, although I always notice that when anyone criticises a shop's service on here, there are immediately other posts declaring how exceptional the service is. That does lead me to wonder if every poster on here is being entirely honest about their motivations for posting. I'm sure some posts are from genuinely satisfied customers, but still...

Edited June 23, 2021 by fezza

[Joseph_Pestell]

28 minutes ago, fezza said:

 

Of course no one is expecting them to undercut their trade customers on products that they supply, but what about the rest that they don't supply to their trade customers or that their trade customers don't sell at all?

 

They've every right to operate this model, but it's only fair to advise new modellers that they can get much better value elsewhere.

 

Perhaps they do offer good service to some people, although I always notice that when anyone criticises a shop's service on here, there are immediately other posts declaring how exceptional the service is. That does lead me to wonder if every poster on here is being entirely honest about their motivations for posting. I'm sure some posts are from genuinely satisfied customers, but still...

 

It's not for them to advise customers on cheaper options elsewhere. Customers' job to do the research.

 

Complicated for Gaugemaster as an importer of so many lines. They can not (or should not) undercut the retailers that they are supplying. They understand this and, as far as I am concerned, hats off to them - unlike Hornby. They are supporting local retailers.

 

Some of us, who are a bit older, will remember Gaugemaster as a "box-shifter". They have chosen a different business model. More power to their elbow.

 

I recall my dealings/rivalry with a French retailer who had a lot of dealings with Gaugemaster. He was amazed by how good they were to deal with and how little margin they were taking by comparison with the importers here.

[fezza]

45 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

It's not for them to advise customers on cheaper options elsewhere. Customers' job to do the research.

 

Complicated for Gaugemaster as an importer of so many lines. They can not (or should not) undercut the retailers that they are supplying. They understand this and, as far as I am concerned, hats off to them - unlike Hornby. They are supporting local retailers.

 

 

I was just suggesting it was only fair for rmwebbers to point out there is much better value elsewhere. Honestly, why would any retail customer choose to pay up to 20 per cent more on commonly available products when so much is available at the touch of a keypad?

[SamThomas]

54 minutes ago, fezza said:

 

I was just suggesting it was only fair for rmwebbers to point out there is much better value elsewhere. Honestly, why would any retail customer choose to pay up to 20 per cent more on commonly available products when so much is available at the touch of a keypad?

fezza - why on earth do you think that "rmwebbers" need it pointing out to them that they can check prices for themselves, using the very keypad/keyboard that they have used to be here ?

 

It's all down to individual choice & the very bottom line is not the "be all & end all to everyone". It's no wonder local model shops are non-existant in some areas. I can assure you that the margins in model railways are not great.

 

I've met a lot of model railway retailers/traders over the years & have yet to meet a "rich" one - most of them are enthusiasts themselves - something you won't find at the huge multinationals.

The small retailers/traders (well, most of them) need & appreciate support.

Model Railways are a hobby, we do not need to save a fiver on a £200 locomotive or have it delivered next day by someone in a borderline MOT case Nissan Micra.

 

Why oh why have so many of us become so money driven & want it yesterday ?

[Darius43]

2 hours ago, fezza said:

I always notice that when anyone criticises a shop's service on here, there are immediately other posts declaring how exceptional the service is. That does lead me to wonder if every poster on here is being entirely honest about their motivations for posting. I'm sure some posts are from genuinely satisfied customers, but still...

If a model shop gave consistently poor/unsatisfactory service to every customer then they would no doubt find themselves short of customers and cash in very short order.  No one is disputing that you were disappointed by your visit but it is big leap to suggest that there is some conspiracy to promote Gaugemaster on RMWeb.   I have two model railway shops nearish to me - Gaugemaster in Ford and Morris Models in Lancing.  Both are a drive away but Gaugemaster is bigger and has easier parking.  Both in my experience charge full RRP and both in my experience provide good service.  They are real model shops and there is a certain pleasure to be had from being in an actual shop that you cannot get from a website.  I buy from websites (including the big two box shifters) and I buy in model shops such as Gaugemaster.   Sometimes there is more to life than saving money on everything.

 

Tell us (repeatedly) about your poor experience by all means and to buy at a discount from other shops is your prerogative but don’t be too surprised if the rest of us don’t follow or agree with you.  That is our prerogative

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[AY Mod]

1 hour ago, fezza said:

Honestly, why would any retail customer choose to pay up to 20 per cent more on commonly available products

 

Perhaps not everyone wants to eat at the cheapest restaurant, have the car serviced by the cheapest mechanic, buy the cheapest clothes etc etc?

 

As they say, price isn't everything but it's probably fruitless to try and explain the concept to someone for whom it is.

 

 

[dibber25]

13 hours ago, SamThomas said:

My post on Saturday @ 13:17 explained it, in a nutshell.

 

You will find that other outfits that import/distribute/wholesale to the trade that also have retail outlets operate in the same sort of fashion.

Exactly! Unfortunately there's none so blind as those who WILL NOT see.

[40F]

 Quote  "I was just suggesting it was only fair for rmwebbers to point out there is much better value elsewhere. Honestly, why would any retail customer choose to pay up to 20 per cent more on commonly available products when so much is available at the touch of a keypad?"

 

Not every body is computer literate, has access to the web, or wants to spend all day sat in front of a computer trawling the net to save 20p. There is much more to life than that 

Edited June 23, 2021 by 40F

[SGP]

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but Gaugemaster are the UK suppliers / wholesalers / importers now on most of the items they stock. 

Therefore, they are not allowed to offer discounts to the public except on Hornby / Scalextric / Airfix / Humbrol / Bachmann and the like where they are just stockists. 

Likewise, buying direct from Hornby or Bachmann you cannot get discount for the same reason. 

Look at Gaugemaster's prices on (say) Piko / Heljan and there is no discount because they are supplying the trade. Conversely, look at their (say) Hornby / Bachmann prices and you will find a RRP and a discount price because Hornby and Bachmann do their own importing and distributing. 

[1E BoY]

29 minutes ago, SGP said:

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but Gaugemaster are the UK suppliers / wholesalers / importers now on most of the items they stock. 

Therefore, they are not allowed to offer discounts to the public except on Hornby / Scalextric / Airfix / Humbrol / Bachmann and the like where they are just stockists. 

Likewise, buying direct from Hornby or Bachmann you cannot get discount for the same reason. 

Look at Gaugemaster's prices on (say) Piko / Heljan and there is no discount because they are supplying the trade. Conversely, look at their (say) Hornby / Bachmann prices and you will find a RRP and a discount price because Hornby and Bachmann do their own importing and distributing. 

 

I am not aware of Bachmann Europe selling to anyone who does not meet their dealer requirements. They most certainly do not sell their products on-line and direct all enquiries to their dealer network.

[John M Upton]

Also don't forget that Bachmann/Farish and Hornby have very strict rules on how much certainly new release items can be discounted by off RRP which to be honest, isn't much.

 

Peco have the same issue, they are obliged to sell their products and those of the various makes they also distribute at full RRP, they are not permitted to undercut the retailers they supply.

 

One thing about Gaugemaster though is that although they do have a range of exclusive models, they still distribute them through to the rest of the trade, you don't have to buy it direct from them and can still continue to support your local retailer if you are still lucky to have one that is.

[SGP]

Quote

I am not aware of Bachmann Europe selling to anyone who does not meet their dealer requirements. They most certainly do not sell their products on-line and direct all enquiries to their dealer network.

I didn't say they did. I can't cross every t and dot every i. Read my post for the information it infers

I said that Bachmann are their own importers and suppliers and so Gaugemaster can offer a discount on Bachmann items as they then become a retailer on those goods. Bachmann supplies Gaugemaster and so so does Hornby so Gaugemaster are able to offer a discount. Gaugemaster imports Piko / LGB / Heljan etc and so therefore cannot offer any discounts on those brands 

With the likes of (say) Piko and LGB, Gaugemaster are importers and distributors and cannot undercut the trade they supply. The only time that Gaugemaster CAN offer discounts on the goods they distribute to the trade, is when all stock has sold out at outlets and there are no further orders.

[1E BoY]

2 hours ago, SGP said:

Likewise, buying direct from Hornby or Bachmann you cannot get discount for the same reason.

 

You inferred that Bachmann sell direct and that you cannot get a discount only RRP.

 

That may be true of Hornby but it is most definitely not the case with Bachmann who do not sell direct to us consumers.

[SGP]

Quote

You inferred that Bachmann sell direct and that you cannot get a discount only RRP.

 

I was not inferring. You know what I meant. 

Gaugemaster can offer a discount because they are not the importers ... Bachmann do that themselves. 

Are the T's crossed and I's dotted now? Can you understand what I am saying?

Gaugemaster used to offer discount on a lot of lines when they weren't the importer / supplier but they got the job of main suppliers when the previous importer / supplier passed the ball.

[SGP]

Says a lot when I offer facts and the owner of the forum sides with comments against what I am trying to say. 

[Darius43]

4 hours ago, SGP said:

Says a lot when I offer facts and the owner of the forum sides with comments against what I am trying to say. 

Instead of flogging this particular dead horse, might I suggest you try some railway modelling or some other form of meditative contemplation.  It might make you feel less aggrieved at the world in general.

 

Cheers

 

Darius