RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted November 10, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 10, 2009 Another one to add to the BR Blue Collection I'm amassing... B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Griffin Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 excellent news, but the other half has said not to pre-order one but i will anyway Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 D5909 made it to Skegness in 1959. It was in the local newspapers. Aye, that's it Lloyd. I know it's come up before but I can never remember the details Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the fuzzler Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Blimey....not even on the Heljan website yet !! Very odd choice, would say that Lion was the firm favourite for next release. Another model to hide from mrs Fuzzler then. Next layout will be a preserved railway interchange....I can run my units and have all sorts of tackle out and about on the "preserved" bit.... If memory serves, I thing that the real 23 ran under the same bogie as the 20s, and they already know about 20 bogies from their O gauge excursions, possibly making it a little easier/cheaper to produce. Lion has nothing in common with anything they (or any other model manufactuere come to think of it) has made before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 If memory serves, I thing that the real 23 ran under the same bogie as the 20s No. There are similarities in the design, but the frame shape is different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John C Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Ihope they dont arrive till the end of next year as I could do with 1 or 3. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the fuzzler Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Do we know if these are a limited edition or s "standard" model ? I'm really taken aback by this. Lion would sell on "wow" factor, as Kestrel and Falcon have done. I can't see the point in replicating this small class with a limited operating area (gn main line?) amd short life. And only a proportion of that was spent in the condition that Heljan will model it in, following the real things rebuild. Or can they get round it with just an interchangeable nose. On the model, that is ! I'd love to know the reasoning behind it, as I can't think of another main line class that was so "limited" in its operation/timescale of operation - class 17 possibly excepted. Ok, one did survive into departmental use, but even so Do Heljan intend to corner the "niche" model market - it'll be a class 77 or 84 next ! Not moaning, just very intrigued as to why the 23 made the grade. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulbb Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I would have thought that if Heljan were doing 'Great Diesel disasters of BR' that the NB class 21 would be a great choice to follow the Clayton as it had a much wider geograhical reach than th 23- they worked in East Anglia, London Burbs and of course all over Scotland. Perhaps Mr and Mrs Kernow could help us here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I have every confidence that we'll see the 21/29 within the next two years. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 How can I justify one coming to North Lincolnshire except as the RTC machine? If the steelworks can use bright yellow CLass 20s... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Blimey....not even on the Heljan website yet... All this conflab is based on one report of an advert in a (yet to be published?) show brochure. ... I can't see the point in replicating this small class with a limited operating area (GN main line?) and short life. ... It ran on the GN main line, and has the name 'Deltic' in its usual description. There are no more felicitous terms in the world of railways. If I recall correctly, it was the top ranking 'wanted' diesel loco in a certain survey. I would have thought that if Heljan were doing 'Great Diesel disasters of BR' that the NB class 21 would be a great choice to follow the Clayton as it had a much wider geograhical reach than the 23- they worked in East Anglia, London Burbs and of course all over Scotland. ... Few built because problems were so obvious at pilot build, never really got anywhere because of its' unreliability: clearly it was a greater disaster than other candidates such as the 21/29 and 28, so perhaps they are knocking them off in 'worst first' order? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 All this conflab is based on one report of an advert in a (yet to be published?) show brochure. It ran on the GN main line, and has the name 'Deltic' in its usual description. There are no more felicitous terms in the world of railways. If I recall correctly, it was the top ranking 'wanted' diesel loco in a certain survey. Few built because problems were so obvious at pilot build, never really got anywhere because of its' unreliability: clearly it was a greater disaster than other candidates such as the 21/29 and 28, so perhaps they are knocking them off in 'worst first' order? The Baby Deltics weren't a disaster. The reason that there were only ten built may reflect more on BR's dislike of two stroke engines, especially those without cylinder heads. They had a few problems early on due to the power unit and some of the auxilliary drive shafts, but once they were refurbished, they settled down with good reliability figures. They were more than a match for the Brush/Mirrlees class 30's which shared some of their duties. It could be argued that the Brush type 2's were a bigger disaster because BR had to re-engine the entire class. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluex5 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 As BabyDeltic says, they were good machines once refurbished (I will grant that as built they were a nightmare, prone to seizing and chucking auxillary drive shafts round the engine room). I think they had the best availability of all the Type 2's used on the ER once sorted. Small fleet size and the ultimate wisdom of using a Deltic engine with it's ultimatly short(er) piston life as prime mover in a low powered mixed traffic loco finally did for them. GSYP for me please!!!!! I think the NBL diesel electrics will get their "day in the sun" though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Do we know if these are a limited edition or s "standard" model ? All Heljan locos are made in *fairly* small runs, but like everything else, I'd expect them to keep their options open and their cards close to their chest when it comes to repeat runs ...I can't think of another main line class that was so "limited" in its operation/timescale of operation - class 17 possibly excepted. I'd say the NBL cl. 16 was more limited than the Baby Delt, and the Clayton in turn much less so. Not that that matters - many of the potential purchasers of any of these types will be people who dont arbitrarily limit themselves to certain areas if a nice model is on offer Do Heljan intend to corner the "niche" model market - Apparently so; according to a snippet I saw in RExM they are now targetting smaller classes and oddities (I was only reading it over someone's shoulder in Smiffs ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 The Baby Deltics weren't a disaster... Well if you say so, obviously not. But if you care to read what commuters using the KX suburban service had to say in their local papers, a rather different perception emerges. Post rebuild, they didn't stand a chance, a poor reputation is hard to mend, and as a small non-standard group they were pretty much doomed... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrushVeteran Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Do we know if these are a limited edition or s "standard" model ? I'm really taken aback by this. Lion would sell on "wow" factor, as Kestrel and Falcon have done. I can't see the point in replicating this small class with a limited operating area (gn main line?) amd short life. And only a proportion of that was spent in the condition that Heljan will model it in, following the real things rebuild. Or can they get round it with just an interchangeable nose. On the model, that is ! I'd love to know the reasoning behind it, as I can't think of another main line class that was so "limited" in its operation/timescale of operation - class 17 possibly excepted. Ok, one did survive into departmental use, but even so Do Heljan intend to corner the "niche" model market - it'll be a class 77 or 84 next ! Not moaning, just very intrigued as to why the 23 made the grade. I believe the Baby Deltic featured quite high in the 'polls' for diesel classes yet to be mass produced by a model manufacturer. With there not being many classes left to do coupled with the availability of decent archive drawings then the options become very limited. As we know Heljan are well known for getting as much out of their tooling as they can so I would imagine that we will see at least four livery variations on the refurbished bodyshell. As long as it sells, and remember almost 40% of the purchases will be by collectors, then the prognosis for an early version looks good. I think Heljan should be congratulated for taking the risk of pleasing those that will consider buying this model. I for one was fortunate enough to travel behind and photograph these locomotives, see my gallery, and yes there were complaints from the public about them and that is one of the reasons that they eventually got banned from going down to Moorgate. I can remember in my early commuting days into London it was certainly a case of keeping the windows closed! Although fairly reliable in refurbished form they were high cost locomotives to run due to the contractual arrangements between BR and English Electric which involved works visits to Doncaster or Stratford for power unit repairs. But in producing a model we are also trying to replicate the past and today us modellers have never had it so good as far as variety and choice is concerned. Once we can master the sound chip for these then we must have a smoke unit for complete authenticity, complete with oil carryover and unburnt fuel odour, lovely! What we need to go with them are some more green 31's, how about it Simon? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I would be an enthusiastic purchaser of a disc headcode version, but given the time elapsed from the launch of Heljan's 26 to present, and still no sign of a 26/0, perhaps there is little enthusiasm in Denmark for pilot versions? May need to graft a Lima or Joueff 40 disc headcode nose on... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 What we need to go with them are some more green 31's, how about it Simon? Coincidentally, only this morning I placed a pre-order for the green Class 31 (R2042A, of D5511) that Hornby are producing (not listed in the catalogue), due out in "December". Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D6975 Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I would be an enthusiastic purchaser of a disc headcode version, but given the time elapsed from the launch of Heljan's 26 to present, and still no sign of a 26/0, perhaps there is little enthusiasm in Denmark for pilot versions? May need to graft a Lima or Joueff 40 disc headcode nose on... At least the late condition 26/0 has been announced - I want original condition 26s, both types.. Could be in for a long wait. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the fuzzler Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 All this conflab is based on one report of an advert in a (yet to be published?) show brochure. It seems to have broken cover and become official now. My Railway Modeller, (December ? With the DVD on the front) carries Heljan's full page advert and its rather prominent. At this rate, Hattons will be taking pre orders before the end of the week.............. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted November 12, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 12, 2009 I would have thought that if Heljan were doing 'Great Diesel disasters of BR' that the NB class 21 would be a great choice to follow the Clayton as it had a much wider geograhical reach than th 23- they worked in East Anglia, London Burbs and of course all over Scotland. Class 23s were very common in Cambridge, and I'm pretty sure I've read of them working to Ely; at least they could have easily done so at the time when one of the King's Cross - Cambridge Buffet Expresses was extended to / from Ely. Good for Heljan for sticking their necks out with this, and I'll certainly buy one as I have fond memories of them and their smoke effects, but hopefully in due course they'll also make an original condition version which I would prefer for compatability with my GN-section steam locos. As someone else has mentioned, we're still waiting for a Pilot Scheme 26, which I would also love to buy if it were available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrushVeteran Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Coincidentally, only this morning I placed a pre-order for the green Class 31 (R2042A, of D5511) that Hornby are producing (not listed in the catalogue), due out in "December". Paul Hi Paul What I meant was the re-introduction of the headcode version of the 31 that Hornby made an excellent model of R2572 D5640. These were the the Brush Type 2's which rubbed shoulders with the refurbished Baby Deltics at Finsbury Park from the mid-sixties. The version of D5511 which is coming out is another Stratford Great Eastern pilot scheme locomotive which Hornby are releasing to satisfy those people who have had problems with the original version R2420 D5512. I and quite a few others would love to see another version of R2572 with or without yellow warning panels, so over to you Simon! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Class 23s were very common in Cambridge, and I'm pretty sure I've read of them working to Ely; at least they could have easily done so at the time when one of the King's Cross - Cambridge Buffet Expresses was extended to / from Ely. Good for Heljan for sticking their necks out with this, and I'll certainly buy one as I have fond memories of them and their smoke effects, but hopefully in due course they'll also make an original condition version which I would prefer for compatability with my GN-section steam locos. As someone else has mentioned, we're still waiting for a Pilot Scheme 26, which I would also love to buy if it were available. Just for the record, I've definately seen them working the extended CBE through Chesterton Junction to Ely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Class 23s were very common in Cambridge, and I'm pretty sure I've read of them working to Ely; at least they could have easily done so at the time when one of the King's Cross - Cambridge Buffet Expresses was extended to / from Ely. Good for Heljan for sticking their necks out with this, and I'll certainly buy one as I have fond memories of them and their smoke effects, but hopefully in due course they'll also make an original condition version which I would prefer for compatability with my GN-section steam locos. As someone else has mentioned, we're still waiting for a Pilot Scheme 26, which I would also love to buy if it were available. I've certainly seen photo's of them at Peterborough. There is a photo somewhere on Flickr of D5903 (GFYE) passing Peterborough North Signalbox in 1968. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Well if you say so, obviously not. But if you care to read what commuters using the KX suburban service had to say in their local papers, a rather different perception emerges. Post rebuild, they didn't stand a chance, a poor reputation is hard to mend, and as a small non-standard group they were pretty much doomed... This is true. But many loco classes were failing at the time of introduction, or it took a while for problems to rear their ugly heads, such as the power unit crankcase fractures on class 47's (and class 28's). Some of these problems were not fully resolved, and in the case of class 47's it meant the engine had to be downrated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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