jonhall Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 I dont think shows should have to provide a full lunch for exhibitors "me being one of them" because once you have had the full breakfast at the B&B only a top up around 1pm should do it. I had a thank-you letter from a show I attended recently, the exhibition manager commented that a number of exhibitors had said that they didn't need a big lunch like that, after the breakfast at the hotel - perhaps next time my expenses should include being put up in a hotel rather than commuting, I imagine the cost of lunch would pale into insignificance compared to two nights in a hotel. I don't suppose I'm alone in wanting something to eat at lunchtime, and its nice to be able to get away from the layout/stand, and sit down in peace and 'switch off' for a few minutes. I have to admit my own clubs lunch offering is rubbish, a bit of gala pie (that if you are lucky is defrosted fully) 3 new potatoes (no more) and a bit of limp lettuce with a bread roll, and a slice of apple pie for pud. It wouldn't be quite so bad if I didn't know we were paying the catering consession at our venue £5 per head for this 'feast', x140 people x 2days thats £1400 its costing us I'd rather dispatch a memeber to clear out the sandwich section of our local tesco's, but our exhibition manager isn't keen - his concern is what we save by making other arangements might just be added back (and more) onto our venue hire. We can't really just give each exhibitor a fiver and let them buy their own at the public cafe, because that already takes ages to get served, and we are too far from any local alternative. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwrman Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Well you come to Cornwall and what do you expect to get, a 'Cornish Pasty' (or a sandwich for the non converted), people expect it of us. But I think as shows take a finacial hit, the catering fund could well see a cut in order to pay for the increased fuel bills and overheads. Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Catering has always been a problem I once did a deal with a local restaurant who I knew well and this worked but cost to much to carry on with,then our wives ,mums etc piled in and took over this proved succesfull whilst we were at the Civic Centre and we had an ideal area for the purpose,I dont know what the new arrangements are but the exhibitors I have seen at the show seem happy.You should provide food for exhibitors its part of the invite and not to is an insult to guys who give their time to entertain with wonderful exhibits.Food can be obtained at a reasonable cost from wholesalers etc and there is usualy somewhere to prepare it ,unless you are stuck with onsite caters who always look at the margins of cost ,and profit..It takes a lot of effort but food for exhibitors pays off in that good will acrues to yourselves in the model rail world and layouts will add this into wether or not they attehd. Chris Aylesbury. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invicta Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Model railway exhibitions, in the main, are pretty generous compared to other things I've been to. Even though this is a thread about catering, there is a similarity between steam rallies and model railway exhibitions and I hope that what has happened to the rallies won't happen to exhibitions. My Father is into his steam traction engines and I sometimes ship to rallies as another driver. There you are lucky at some to get much more than a token contribution towards diesel and a bag of coal for the weekend. Food and drink is entirely what you can provide for yourself. Anyone with smaller exhibits gets nothing. Often the coal is unburnable $h!t£ that soots tubes with no calorific value. No-one I know with an engine has a desire to continue supporting a rally that treats exhibitors as another cash cow. We were of the opinion that as we were giving up our time to provide them with exhibits that made their rally possible, we weren't going to pay through the nose for the privilege. Some of us could just as easily just arrange a social gathering of engines at a farm somewhere, go on a road run without the health and safety clipboard merchants imposing stupid (and in some cases dangerous) rules on us, and play with real steam engines into the night with no barrage of punters. One such gathering now takes place most years in Silverstone (village, not the track). I think as railway modellers we are really lucky that our exhibitions are so good in the main to the traders and exhibitors. Long may it continue. That's very true- I don't exhibit in my own right, but do a few shows a year helping out behind other people's layouts, and on a couple of occasions I've been to non-model railway events where there's been a token model railway presence, and the contrast between those and the average model railway exhibition was very noticeable- not so much as a cup of tea on offer unless you searched out the overpriced event catering, and on one infamous occasion, not only was there a total absence of catering for exhibitors, but it even took us until a good half-hour after the event opened before we could find someone to switch the lights on in the part of the venue we were exhibiting in....(When we got there, we were basically told 'you're in here' and left to our own devices- the person 'stewarding' didn't know where the light switches were- they turned out to be behind the bar- which was closed, locked and inaccessible until someone eventually turned up with a key...) That was a fun two days.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted March 3, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 3, 2011 Warners (BRM Shows) are possibly the tightest outfit going, Trades at Doncaster got nothing, layout people got vouchers for food and tea. Why clubs support Warners is beyond me! Support clubs not Publishers I say. Charlie Well said. The Blackburn club always offer exhibits - layouts or demonstrators - "at cost" to other similar organisations. We don't expect to recover anything beyond transport and vehicle hire costs. We expect a similar approach from exhibitors we invite to our annual show. However, I have recommended that where we are invited to a "commercial" event, we should ensure a nominal fee is included as a contribution to the other costs we incur in making the exhibits avalable. As a guide I believe we should expect to receive about £100 for a large layout at a two day show. Perhaps £30 per demonstrator would also be appropriate? Steve Hewitt. (In no official capacity) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy C Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Totally agree with that Steve for all their pontification and navel gazing about promoting the hobby etc etc, at the end of the day a commercial organisation is only interested in one thing, making a profit. If there wasn't something in it for them, they wouldn't do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim V Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 The question was would an exhibitor go to a show where they had to feed themselves, pay their own expenses? The short answer is no. There is no comparison with the motor racing steward example, as what are the EXTRA costs incurred by the steward? No van hire, or crew. I have attended two Warners' shows, and I was impressed with how well we were looked after. It was a model for other shows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted March 3, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 3, 2011 To be fair to them, the first couple of years at Harrogate, exhibitors (don't know about traders) were well looked after - Pie and Peas on the Friday at the showground, a meal on the Saturday at the Hotel free of charge and unlimited tea/coffee, but it did go down hill from there. Last show I did at Harrogate evening meals were still arranged but became chargable and tea tokens were introduced (3/4 per person per day). Alegedly, at Doncaster this year, the staff on the BRM stand got the same provision out of Warners Exhibitions (their sister company) as all the other traders - i.e. nothing! Would have been an interesting converstation back at the office on Monday morning We commuted to Harrogate Food was available on Friday pm but no tea or coffee as we were told "Saturday meal in hotel or free tea or coffee" - we didn't get the meal and no drinks either ..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 The short answer is no. Is it? Would depend on the show, but having deomstrated at Scalefour North on a number of occasions and taken part of a alyout there, I'd happily go there at my own expense. The experience there alone would be worth it. And I've not always used meal vouchers either taking my own food as I detest having a big hot meal in the middle of the day and each time there I'd much rather be sitting talking to other people there! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim V Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 It's a bit different turning up in your own car to arriving in a hired van - try covering three days van hire and fuel yourself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Don't tell Steve Hall this but for Scalefour North I'd consider it if that's what was needed to ensure the show continued. But in your post you didn't specifically mention van hire but seemed to answer on behalf of everyone, I provided an example which was contrary to that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Catering has always been a problem I once did a deal with a local restaurant who I knew well and this worked but cost to much to carry on with,then our wives ,mums etc piled in and took over this proved succesfull whilst we were at the Civic Centre and we had an ideal area for the purpose,I dont know what the new arrangements are but the exhibitors I have seen at the show seem happy.You should provide food for exhibitors its part of the invite and not to is an insult to guys who give their time to entertain with wonderful exhibits.Food can be obtained at a reasonable cost from wholesalers etc and there is usualy somewhere to prepare it ,unless you are stuck with onsite caters who always look at the margins of cost ,and profit..It takes a lot of effort but food for exhibitors pays off in that good will acrues to yourselves in the model rail world and layouts will add this into wether or not they attehd. Chris Aylesbury. At Railex now we give exibitors vouchers they can spend on a hot lunch in a seperate exibitors area, plus access to free tea and coffee, we also take orders on a friday night for fish and chips although we don't pay for these we do bring them back to the stadium so those setting up can get a bite to eat. We also have for the last few years laid on a hot buffet and a real ale pub on the Saturday night and lay on a bus to get people there and back we charge this at cost at £7 per head last year we had sixty five people attend. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted March 4, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 4, 2011 A true story now! many years ago, I was at a show, run by a very friendly but small club. The venue was in West Yorkshire. I was in the queue for exhibitor lunches and the chap in front of me asked what was on offer. the answer was "pie and peas" (A traditional northern dish, in this case a warm pork pie and mushy peas in a bowl, with optional mint sauce). The chap paused and asked "Is there a vegetarian option?". A beautifully timed response of "Peas" brought many chuckles from those around! I find that if it is a staying away do (ie hotel) then by the time you have partaken of the usual full brekkie, then had a hot meal in the middle of the day then a restaurant style meal in the evening, I eat about triple what I would at home! I usually eat a full meal in the evening so if it is a staying away do I would be happy with a sandwich at lunchtime. If it is a travelling daily show, the last thing I want to do is spend all day working on a layout, drive maybe an hour home then start cooking, so a cooked meal in the middle of the day is very welcome. I have done lots of exhibitions now, well over 100. I can honestly say that the only thing that has upset me over catering is the lack of drinks. A couple of shows have been stingy over the number of drinks vouchers but other than that I can't really say that I have ever had a problem. I fully understand that costs are a major factor, possibly more than ever before and if a show was run on a tight budget I would rather take a packed lunch than expect a club to fork out on a slap up meal. Some of the bigger shows are now fully fledged business ventures rather than enthusiasts events and wouldn't entertain such a thing for these shows. I recall being told that at one of the "commercial" shows, exhibitors were paying £1 a time for tea and coffee. To me that is quite simply not acceptable and that would stop me going again. If we are there earning profits for a commercial company, perhaps we should charge them for our time at a sensible daily rate, never mind us adding to the show's profits by paying over the odds for drinks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted March 4, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 4, 2011 perhaps we should charge them for our time at a sensible daily rate, never mind us adding to the show's profits by paying over the odds for drinks. It is a valid question to ask just how commercial would be some of those shows if all the exhibitors were to ask for an hourly attendance rate for the requisite number of operators and in addition to any costs and show fee offered. Voluntary societies and one-man small businesses might ask the same though I draw a line at larger businesses since their staff are often paid at the agreed rate by the business as a part of their job anyway. Two themes which have emerged throughout this topic are that (1) drinks should not be charged for and should be available in at least generous, possibly unlimited, quantity and with more options than just tea or coffee and (2) everyone's personal eating habits differ and while there is a general consensus on there being a complimentary lunch there is no real agreement on what that should be! Some are clearly happy with a light snack but by no means all. A case of agreeing to differ in the detail once the fundamentals have been established, perhaps? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 The decision about catering should not be very complicated. Exhibitors are my guests. I treat my guests as I would expect to be treated myself. Simple really. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 personally I reckon that the exhibitors should get free tea/coffee/water and nowt else, the support crew (all those guys that help set up the show) should get the aforementioned brew and a meal be it pie and beans using farmfoods cheap alleged meat pies but as long as it is hot being involved in motor racing as a marshal has shown me how it should be done, ... This post is just amazing... and I'm surprised it's only been mentioned once in passing since... there is utterly no comparison between a model railway show and a motor racing event!! Where on earth do you get the idea from - that there is a seperate "support crew" from the "exhibitors" at a model railway show, and that they should be fed but not the exhibitors..?!?! The exhibitors bring their own layouts and set them up themselves; the 'support' is usually the host club doing a floor plan beforehand, working the Entrance/Ticket sales, providing the catering and Car Park possibly. There just isn't the distinction you make, and if you do organise your own show your way ("how it should be done"), I doubt you'd get many exhibitors to attend, or return the next year... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 The availability of catering is a major issue when choosing and costing an exhibition venue these days. Only a few years ago our society used a school where we could use kitchen to prepare food cooked previously offsite for serving. We used a lot of people to run a cafe for paying visitors, and served similar food for exhibitors. The food included a lot of salad and pasta as cheap bulk. Exhibitors seemed to like the food, and we made a good profit from the public. By the time we left the school though their tightening up of regulations meant it was hard even to find a source of water to wash mugs. By moving to a more professional venue, we lost the last stage of freedom in preparing food, and it became more a matter of deciding a viable level of subsidy. It happens that at our current venue the food is excellent, but not cheap. Queueing is unfortunately a fact of life - there is only one serving point, and this is shared with the public - but the staff are efficient, and even with a full hall they've coped and the queues have been fast. At exhibitions where I've been exhibiting there have probably only been two that have been unacceptably poor. One was several years ago, and I've no idea whether the same catering applies today, the other has moved venue, so I suspect it has changed. One, the exhibitor catering was a voucher to use at the burger van in the car park, that didn't cover the cost of a burger, chips and a drink from the van. There was no shelter and nowhere to sit and food couldn't be taken back into the hall. The other provided a choice of two hot meals, but restricted the choice so that each layout had a fixed (and uneven) number of tickets for each option, and also fixed the time when people could eat by shifts. One option was a piece of chicken, which had been pre-cooked and kept hot in an oven, gradually drying out to a rubbery consistency that was impossible to cut with a knife and could only be torn apart with difficulty. When on the Sunday we realised that the menu was identical it caused arguments amongst our team and several chose to go without lunch rather than wait until the last sitting for the vulcanised chicken. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 The decision about catering should not be very complicated. Exhibitors are my guests. I treat my guests as I would expect to be treated myself. Succinct and true. . . . PS - Does that mean your buying the first round then Geoff? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMal Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 One, the exhibitor catering was a voucher to use at the burger van in the car park, that didn't cover the cost of a burger, chips and a drink from the van. There was no shelter and nowhere to sit and food couldn't be taken back into the hall. The other provided a choice of two hot meals, but restricted the choice so that each layout had a fixed (and uneven) number of tickets for each option, and also fixed the time when people could eat by shifts. One option was a piece of chicken, which had been pre-cooked and kept hot in an oven, gradually drying out to a rubbery consistency that was impossible to cut with a knife and could only be torn apart with difficulty. When on the Sunday we realised that the menu was identical it caused arguments amongst our team and several chose to go without lunch rather than wait until the last sitting for the vulcanised chicken. Good description. As a seasoned exhibitor I recognised both these venues immediately, but of course not mentioning any names! It is interesting to note that where exhibition managers are also regular exhibitors themselves that catering (and indeed all other aspects of the show) are generally better organised to make things easy for visiting layouts/traders/demonstrators. Mal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted March 4, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 4, 2011 Its a pity that JdF aint here to air his views on what is needed 3 courses 3 times a day seems good Don't forget the cooked breakfast - a three course brekky can't be tea, croissant and jam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted March 4, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 4, 2011 Tea and bacon butties will be available tomorrow and Sunday at reasonable cost no problems, can't guarantee there will be pint mugs though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arran Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Don't forget the cooked breakfast - a three course brekky can't be tea, croissant and jam HI All I think all exhibition managers are going to have to allow more room behind the layouts for all the 9 courses some people will be adding to the wastline. REgards Arran Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Nevard Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 I generally find the exhibitor's eating area a most miserable experience as I peer at all the single glum faces trying to avoid eye contact (it's probably the cat thing I know). It doesn't really bother me to be honest the food, and if I know it's not that great I'll take my own packed lunch for a one day show. I always forget to pack a decent mug for tea though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted March 4, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 4, 2011 I always forget to pack a decent mug for tea though! plus spec's, 3 link hooks etc etc .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arran Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Your trainset has room for a few behind it.... maybe you could open a emergency fat bloke service station there? Whats that then "the local mobile pie shop" Regards Arran Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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