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Roath, Cardiff

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Changing the subject - back to 1971 - have you plans for a Warship or two working to Roath ?

.

Here might be some justification

.

Brian R

.

 

D867 Zenith

13/08/71 Fri.

7V70 09.40 Hither Green - Severn Tunnel Jct.

4B45 20.30 Severn Tunnel Jct. - Plymouth Friary

 

D845 Sprightly

14/08/71 Sat.

2B91 07.50 Newton Abbott - Kingswear

1C36 08.45 Kingswear - Cardiff

1B04 13.10 Cardiff - Paignton

Sighted by myself at Cardiff General

5B80 17.10 Paignton - Newton Abbott ECS

 

16/08/71 Mon. 6

C13 17.50 Newton Abbott - Waterston (oil empties) to Severn Tunnel Jct.

17/08/71 Tue.

8A09 00.55 severn Tunnel Jct. - Taplow

0F70 L/E Taplow - Old Oak Common

 

D854 Tiger

14/08/71 Sat.

4V14 00.30 Basingstoke - Reading

8C00 03.30 Reading West Depot - Severn Tunnel Jct.

8C67 13.45 Severn Tunnel Jct. - Ebbw Vale

8C67 16.35 Ebbw Vale - Severn Tunnel Jct.

15/08/71 Sun.

Stabled Severn Tunnel Jct.

16/08/71 Mon.

7C20 08.10 Severn Tunnel Jct. - Barry Docks

8E69 13.10 Severn Tunnel Jct. - Temple Mills.

17/08/71 Tue.

6V59 20.20 Norwich Thorpe - Bristol Kingsland Rd.

00.43 ex Temple Mills.

L/E Kingsland Rd. - Bath Rd.

0C22 L/E Bath Rd. Avonmouth

7C22 07.05 Avonmouth - Radyr

8B41 10.20 Radyr - Filton C.C.D.

0F74 L/E Filton - Bath Rd.

7E12 19.38 Bristol Kingsland Rd. - Temple Mills to Swindon, Cocklebury

18/08/71 Wed.

0F70 L/E West Ealing - Old Oak Common

0C14 L/E Old Oak Common - Acton

7C14 04.30 Acton - East Usk Yd.

0F74 L/E East Usk Yd. - Bath Rd.

7E12 19.38 Bristol Kingsland Rd. - Temple Mills.

 

D822 Hercules

16/08/71 Mon.

7C26 08.45 Plymouth Friary - Severn Tunnel Jct.

8O30 22.20 Severn Tunnel Jct. - Hither Green

17/08/71 Tue.

7V70 09.40 Hither Green - Severn Tunnel Jct.

8O30 22.20 Severn Tunnel Jct. - Hither Green

18/08/71 Wed.

7V70 09.40 Hither Green - Severn Tunnel Jct.

8O30 22.20 Severn Tunnel Jct. - Hither Green.

 

D869 Zest

17/08/71 Tue.

0C41 L/E Old Oak Common - Acton

7C41 10.35 Acton - Severn Tunnel Jct.

7B14 23.24 Severn Tunnel Jct. - Totnes

 

D817 Foxhound (Maroon F.Y.E.)

18/08/71 Wed.

0C41 L/E Old Oak Common - Acton

7C41 Acton - Severn Tunnel Jct.

0Z?? L/E Severn Tunnel Jct. - Llanwern

6Z?? Llanwern - ????, Worcester

0F82 L/e Worcester - Severn Tunnel Jct.

 

D857 Undaunted

18/08/71 Wed.

0F73 05.40 Laira - Swindon Works towing D1001 & D1057.

0F82 L/E Swindon - Severn Tunnel Jct.

8A43 16.10 Severn Tunnel Jct. - Acton.

 

D858 Valorous

18/08/71 Wed.

7C26 08.45 Plymouth Friary - Severn Tunnel Jct.

0O67 21.50 Severn Tunnel Jct. - Jersey Marine.

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Oh the weather outside is frightful...

 

...but the thought of tea and modelling is, well, delightful. With term coming to an end and returning home to Bracknell has meant that I can pick up where I had left off with Roath a few weeks ago. Strictly speaking I should be revising for my finals but I'm sure a few days off won't do much harm.

 

A majority of the work this time concentrates on finishing off things that I have previously started so I can move the layout onto the next stages and predominatley on the left hand 'warehouse' end of the layout which has been largely ignored up until now. Work started with putting in the plaster ground works so I can get the yard surface in and finish off the ballasting - a straightforward task but also a little messy. Once it's all in and painted it'll be a case of playing with emulsions to help merge it and the trackwork all together as it's looking a little clean at the moment. 'Scuse the black boxes pretending to be the warehouse (Make a change from CDs eh?) but I'm still trying to find some inspiration to get started on it.

 

dscf1449q.jpg

 

dscf1451a.jpg

 

Also I've had a little play with those laser cut tiles I've mentioned on the previous incarnation of RMweb and I'm really pleased with the results. Here's a little test piece I've produced for a outhouse to go on the allotment at the front of the layout. They're intentionally a little higgledy-piggleday (sp?!) as I wanted it to look quite cobbled together - I've got a solution for getting them nice and straight on the terraced houses but I'll save that for a little piece I'm planning to do for the forum.

 

dscf1444.jpg

 

The allotment scene on the whole is now almost finished and I'm pretty pleased with the results. A couple of new pieces of stock can be glimpsed below - a second Lion emulsions tanker to complete the pair and D7054. The latter is a bit of a pheonix - it was the first loco for my old layout, Waltham, but a bout of neglect left it with broken glazing and bufferbeams and the weathering was knackered. However, an evenings work has been it come back to life and now just awaiting weathering and a few little detail bits. It's always satisfying to put fresh life into something but the case was more so with this loco as my Grandma, who passed away a year ago yesterday, had bought it for me as a birthday present when they first came out.

 

dscf1457.jpg

 

Another pehonix loco is this Bachmann 37 - found in a second hand shop with broken buffers, tippex numbers, some interesting weathering and a GWR nameplate I was a little cautious until I was told I could have it for a score. Still, the body work is sound and when I opened it up I found a Lenz Gold looking at me so I'm a happy chappy! It's now had the noses removed for new resin ones and been P4 using some Black Beetles, just need some of Shawplan's tasty bits and then painting it in grubby green full yellow ends with arrows as 6982.

 

 

dscf1423r.jpg

 

Changing the subject - back to 1971 - have you plans for a Warship or two working to Roath ?

 

That new Warship book is a good'un isn't it ? wink.gif

 

I do plan to do 821 at somepoint however it is a long way down the list at present as I doubt they'd of been common at Roath and the Bachmann model needs some sprucing up. When I do get round to it I plan to do it in sparkly, ex-works blue as it was outshopped from Swindon in the summer of '71, ala http://diesel-image-.../p48215438.html.

 

Thanks for the links to the Masterman galleries - there's certainly some interesting stuff there. Have you got the details for that chap who knows about the Cardiff break down vehicles BTW?

 

Right... back to the plaster...

 

OMS -

 

Pix

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Another Dose of Late Night Ramblings

 

Well I'm a week into my Christmas break and progress has been swift. The photo below shows the state of play as of Friday night and, although I was happy with the standard of modelling, there was something that niggled me about not being right for the setting of the layout. I spent a good hour staring and pondering at the scene but I just couldn't put my finger on it. After a bit of musing and threatening to set fire to it all with Bryn of this parish, he mentioned that is looked "like a box of various green crayons had vomited over the layout". He was right. It was just too 'nice'. It suggested slightly overgrown GW branchline, not run down 1970's back water. So after a couple drams and a crafty smoke, it all came up.

 

dscf1507.jpg

 

Saturday brought a fresh start and a slight headache. I explored a few reference photos and decided a more open feel was needed, as well as toning down some of the greenery to look a lot more weedy. The old coal saithes and some grounded vans (although the ones shown are just place holders until I can build something a little more apt) help bring the scene together and the latter, I hope, also hide the join between the backscene and baseboards. Oh and 'scuse the sheets of paper in the background - I'm currently playing with radii for the curved backscene to hide the corner!

 

dscf1547q.jpg

 

I need to add a lot more clutter and debris to the area, representing things discarded by shunters. I've made a start with some things I found in the bits box but more needs to go in, as well and teasing up the carpet underlay to make them look a little more bedded in.

 

dscf1610i.jpg

 

If you squint your eyes and imagine the black boxes are a warehouse, the photo below might almost... just... possibly look sort real.

 

dscf1557.jpg

 

Also of note the first of the second generation of terraced houses are out the mould and being assembled. The first pair are shown below, complete with the master for the 'middle' piece that connects the rear extensions together. I've put a lot more thought into the way they go together now and have carefuly placed the join lines in places where they'll be hidden by drain pipes, as well as moulding that 'middle' piece as one. I'm dead chuffed how these have come out, the rendering feels a lot more 'right' than the old stone ones I had done before.

 

dscf1645p.jpg

 

As ever, any comments or insults are welcomed.

 

On a side note I popped into the Steampunk exhibition in Oxford on Saturday - which has really given me some ideas about a future layout...

 

OMS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuIa5NoPH9c

 

Pix

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"....... Also if i really squint, the black boxes only need a sign say "Republic" or "Corporation" and they could pass as a night club!........... "

.

Nightclubs, conspicuous by their absence in Cardiff circa 1971.

.

There was "Tito's" in Greyfriars Road, "Bumper's" in the Castle Arcade and the "Top Rank" in Queen St. - the latter being the most popular on a weekend.

.

There was "The Ocean Club" on Rover Way (very remote) and "The Double Diamond Club" (extremely remote, near Aber Jct. Caerphilly !).

.

Most famous - the "New Moon" on Mill Lane, frequented by "grebo's" ..... local slang for those with long hair and attired in an unkempt manner, but they did sell Newcastle Brown !

.

Brian R

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Pix, good for you for having a ponder over what looks right or not, and then having the courage to do something about it! smile.gif

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Neil,

.

Were you thinking of 'The North Star' club ?

.

And yes, "The Customhouse" and it's near neighbour "The Glendower" the places to go when the tv was broken, just to watch the 'ladies of the night' and other characters.

.

I think one of the 'girls' survives under the bridge on Marc Smith's current micro-layout !

.

My experiences of the area, dealing with the 'girls' and their 'punters' will be kept for my memoirs !

.

Brian

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Bri, thats the one!

 

We used to nip into the White Hart every Weds, about 2130 after the Cardiff 4mm Group stopped playing trains for the evening.

 

I can remember with absolute clarity the atmosphere!

 

There was a certain lady of the night, Big Black Lisa as she was known! blink.gif Took great delight in whipping out parts of her anatomy to show me, then a very niave 15/16 years of age!laugh.gif

 

Mike Bird and Clive Jenkins p****ing themselves laughing as I was mesmerised by the sight seen before my young eyes!

 

If you could only model that!

 

Or in the New sea Lock, lock-in more like.

wink.gif

No pubs like that anymore, mores the pity!

 

Pix, shame you werent about then, the things we could have got up to!!!!!blink.gif wink.gif

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".... Big Black Lisa ..... "

.

Big Lisa has been dead for many years, and was a fixture of Cardiff's dockland in the way that Tommy Letton (fishmonger), Billy Boston (rugby league)and a certain 'Mr' Parker (jazz musician) all were. Albeit she made her living on her back........ and claimed to be a princess in an African tribe.

.

The 'Bay MRG' boys used to adjourn to 'The New Sea Lock' after our club nights, in those days it was run by Rita DeGabriel (IIRC) who had jet black hair, despite her years, and it was an establishment that was unaware of the licensing hours, but then the local Old Bill were also unaware of the correct licensing hours ........ !

.

I remember listening to the legendary Viv Brook, my former Detective Chief Super, hard as nails, built like a brick sh!t house, hands like shovels , revered "down the docks" and an accomplished pianist...... tell this story from his days as a PC on the beat in Cardiff's Dockland in the early 50s

.

"It was a Sunday, and I was working 4-12, and in my No.1 uniform, as was required on Sundays. I got a call at the pillar to attend 240 Bute St. (The Salvation Army hostel) where two Swedish seamen were slugging it out. I arrived and parted them, but they started on me. It ended up with me in a right mess, but I eventually got the better of them and had one in a headlock and the other knelt on the other. At this point the Salvation Army captain emerges from the hall and says "Mr Brook, can you moderate your language please, we're trying to hold a service !"

.

Viv once called in to a certain station where Sullivan senior and I worked and instructed the 'reserve man' to attend at the nearby 'Royal Oak' and shin up the drainpipe, in thro the flat and open the door, as the landlord was locked out ....... having been socialising at Viv's house.

.

When he got his QPM he had a party at his home, walked down to the nick from where he called the control room and ordered any calls for the area to be phoned tho' to his home ...... then instructed the officers to come and help him celebrate !

.

Such was the impression he left upon Pope John Paul II when he visited Cardiff, he personally awarded Viv a Papal 'knighthood'........ and I have another (nice) story there about a copper called Sullivan, who moaned all day because we'd come on at 9.00pm and worked until 5.00pm the following afternoon. We were put right in front of the Papal dias, to stop HH Pope John Paul II being mobbed by marauding priests and nuns as he made off in his 'Popemobile'. Well Mikey 'S' didn't shut up, berating the Catholics for imposing on his rest day, for which he'd only get another day off. Then, as the 'Popemobile' approached Mikey 'S' noticed a small girl in her best 'Corpus Christi' dress being pushed and shoved by these priests and nuns.

Mikey 'S' bends down, lifts her onto his shoulder, strides thro the crowd, and past the barrier. The 'Popemobile' stops, and His Holiness blesses her ........ I pulled him up about it later, and he just shrugged his shoulders and said 'had to be done' !

.

I also recall being on the picket line outside Margam in connection with the coke convoys to Llanwern during the strike of '84.

.

Viv was such an imposing figure, and through his communicative skills, he won the admiration and respect of miners and coppers alike

.

I was there when he briefed a load of us following the fatal stabbing in Ninian Park Road of a Swansea supporter by Crustal Palace fans before an FA Cup replay at Ninian Park. Straight off the top of his head he delegated officers to various tasks, to the extent that a couple were nicked within minutes filling their car up on North Rd. a couple more at Cardiff Central station buying singles back to London, and two more in London the next morning. I recall the murderer was a bloke called Barry Rondeau !

 

What a boss !

.

Brian R

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What a place to work (and play!).

 

My first job after the 6th form was In Currans! Worked in the labs there, almost blowing myself up several times (the old ammunition 'cookery books' were still there from WW1 and 2!), to much temptation for an 18 year old intent on joining HM Royal Marines!

 

Can remember Rita as well! Hubby grey haired and hen pecked and the barman, Mike I think! Lots of gold! Lock ins and sing songs with the bay guys or Llanederyn as it was then!

 

All part of Kaerdiffs atmosphere!

 

Top tales to about the old man, funnily enough I just been pounding the beat in Keyham, Plymouth where he was posted as a young Matelot in the late 1940's!

 

I see a pint of dark coming on, a clarkes and a right old chinwag next time I am up!

 

Pix, sorry mate your threads been well and truly hi-jacked!

 

Dont forget Pix, you need a nice advert somewhere to for Kardov!!!!! As Brian, he will tell you!!!!!

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".... I see a pint of dark coming on, a clarkes and a right old chinwag next time I am up!....."

.

Just let me know, I'll stir 'Gunsmoke' from his slumbers too !

.

Had my 'exit interview' today with South Wales new chief Peter Vaughan (albeit he joined us in 1984), nice chin wag over coffee and my certificate of 'excellent' conduct over 30 years and 192 days !

.

Just meant I didn't get caught !

Well I did, but always had the right answers.

 

"..... Dont forget Pix, you need a nice advert somewhere to for Kardov!!!!! As Brian, he will tell you!!!!!.... "

.

Yep, my old lady used it to make 'bakestones' (Welsh cakes to the less well educated)and her pastry, in fact I think it was her pastry that Reich Chancellor Himler employed to construct the Berlin bunkers.

.

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....meanwhile...back to the layout ;)

 

I like the revised foreground - seems to work much better - less is more and all that.

 

A question about your front display panel if I may - is it easily removable to allow work on the layout as I see some photos with/without? TIA

 

Pete

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Thanks for the kind words all!

 

Rendered could well be just the job...Always seems to be a lot of houses so treated when Im looking out of the train window when going to Newport or other S Wales locations for a beer or.. / wild jol.. / "business trip"

 

There was quite a debate over here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/3906-introduction-of-cement-rendering/ but the real impetus to change was moving into one of the said terraced houses. The ease of painting rendering compared to getting a decent result on a mass scale was also good reason for the change!

 

][/b]Pix, good for you for having a ponder over what looks right or not, and then having the courage to do something about it! smile.gif[/quote]

 

I tend to make most scenic stuff up as I go along and usually it comes out as the mental image I have of what I want the layout to look like, although this time I must of been imagining Ashburton or something else quaint. It certainly harks back to what Jim SW was saying recently about it can be a lot easier to model an actual location as all decisions are made for you!

 

Pix, shame you werent about then, the things we could have got up to!!!!!blink.gif wink.gif

 

I've got some tales to tell about my time in Cardiff but there certainly isn't the characters about now that Brian and yourself describes. I think when the docks went and became swanky resturaunts and hotels it's all become a bit sterile. Certainly no Big Black Lisa's but if you strole up Bute Street in the evening you'd get some 'offers' I'm sure.

 

Dont forget Pix, you need a nice advert somewhere to for Kardov!!!!!

 

Google doesn't seem to throw much up - do you know of any photographs of such an advert? I've had a flick through John Briggs' 'Before the Deluge' and 'Streets of Cardiff' but couldn't spot any.

 

A question about your front display panel if I may - is it easily removable to allow work on the layout as I see some photos with/without?

 

It slides in and out for movement of the layout to shows and so on. The lower section, which forms the fascia boards on the front of the layout become part of the packing crates while the lighting gantery section bolt onto each other to protect the light fittings. I must admit I have made the gantery sections 6' long so they're a little bit of a pain to move but I plan to use a van most of the time when the layout goes to shows so it shouldn't be too much of an issue. The photo below shows the overal effect - the joining bolts in the middle can just about be seen.

 

 

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/1320/dscf2562n.jpg

 

Hopefully these naff photos shows how the ends are attached to the boards - it's just a simple bit of baton that slots into a gap. It's real belt and braces stuff but it's nice and solid.

 

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/6361/dscf2569o.jpg

 

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/3093/dscf1701.jpg

 

Nothing huge has happened to the layout over the last few days although the pheonix 37 has moved on a bit more with the addition of some of Brian Hanson's tasty new bits and the new resin ends going on. I've also lowered it by a mil or so which has really helped the overall feel of the loco - it looks a lot 'heavier' like the prototype. Still needs some of those etched footsteps, handrails and other details but I think it should be done by the end of Christmas.

 

 

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/2372/dscf1688.jpg

 

Note to self: I must cut down on the pies....

 

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/6207/dscf1698.jpg

 

 

OMS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvqkwvA9i4Q

 

Seasons greetings,

 

Pix

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I've really enjoyed reading this thread over the last day or so. Pixie, the modelling is very evocative and that blue 37 puts me in mind of something I've just happened across on youtube.

It's fifteen years later than your chosen period but it's a nice record of a time that's now gone. Brian's recollections add some meat to the bones of the Cardiff that you're recreating. Top stuff - I look forward to reading more!

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Pix., re the Kardov adverts..........I dont, Brian might well have. They seemed to be everywhere at the time!

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Thanks for posting the photos and detailed explanation of the front fascia panel.

 

How about your 2mm FS layout....still progressing?

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Now that 37 looks fabbo - must get those bits frae BH sorted...

Do like the way this is being presented Pix, very nice....;)

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Another Dose of Late Night Ramblings

 

Well I'm a week into my Christmas break and progress has been swift. The photo below shows the state of play as of Friday night and, although I was happy with the standard of modelling, there was something that niggled me about not being right for the setting of the layout. I spent a good hour staring and pondering at the scene but I just couldn't put my finger on it. After a bit of musing and threatening to set fire to it all with Bryn of this parish, he mentioned that is looked "like a box of various green crayons had vomited over the layout". He was right. It was just too 'nice'. It suggested slightly overgrown GW branchline, not run down 1970's back water. So after a couple drams and a crafty smoke, it all came up.

 

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/7387/dscf1507.jpg

 

Saturday brought a fresh start and a slight headache. I explored a few reference photos and decided a more open feel was needed, as well as toning down some of the greenery to look a lot more weedy. The old coal saithes and some grounded vans (although the ones shown are just place holders until I can build something a little more apt) help bring the scene together and the latter, I hope, also hide the join between the backscene and baseboards. Oh and 'scuse the sheets of paper in the background - I'm currently playing with radii for the curved backscene to hide the corner!

 

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/8753/dscf1547q.jpg

 

I need to add a lot more clutter and debris to the area, representing things discarded by shunters. I've made a start with some things I found in the bits box but more needs to go in, as well and teasing up the carpet underlay to make them look a little more bedded in.

 

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/1101/dscf1610i.jpg

 

If you squint your eyes and imagine the black boxes are a warehouse, the photo below might almost... just... possibly look sort real.

 

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/941/dscf1557.jpg

 

Also of note the first of the second generation of terraced houses are out the mould and being assembled. The first pair are shown below, complete with the master for the 'middle' piece that connects the rear extensions together. I've put a lot more thought into the way they go together now and have carefuly placed the join lines in places where they'll be hidden by drain pipes, as well as moulding that 'middle' piece as one. I'm dead chuffed how these have come out, the rendering feels a lot more 'right' than the old stone ones I had done before.

 

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/1518/dscf1645p.jpg

 

As ever, any comments or insults are welcomed.

 

On a side note I popped into the Steampunk exhibition in Oxford on Saturday - which has really given me some ideas about a future layout...

 

OMS: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=vuIa5NoPH9c

 

Pix

 

Dear Pixie, I've just come across your layout. I really like it, especially the way it evokes the shabbiness of the railways at that time - junk and detritus in the corners etc. Those vans are nicely weathered too - good to see some chalk marks!

 

Colin Parks

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Two points arising:

 

Kardov flour - there could be few if any Western Welsh buses that did not carry ads for this product but I do not recall [very important word, recall] seeing billboard ads for it.

 

Bakestones - these were the thick pieces of metal on which Welsh cakes were cooked. Think ship's plate cut into a circle with a slot for a handle and you get the idea. The bakestone was placed on the gas stove - in the days when we had coal gas instead of the fast-disappearing stuff from the North Sea - and greased with lard applied with a twist of greasproof paper or the wrapper of the block of lard. The cakes themselves are made from a form of pastry or dough with raisins and/or mixed fruit rolled out flat, cut out with a pastry cutter, placed on the bakestone and flipped over half-way through cooking. Straight from the bakestone they are gorgeous and moreish, especially if dusted with caster sugar. My Nan in Barry made them and they bring back many happy memories!

 

Pixie - sorry for hi-jacking your thread yet again. Try your local supermarket for these delicacies if you haven't discovered them already.

 

Chris

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Two points arising:

 

Kardov flour - there could be few if any Western Welsh buses that did not carry ads for this product but I do not recall [very important word, recall] seeing billboard ads for it.

 

Bakestones - these were the thick pieces of metal on which Welsh cakes were cooked. Think ship's plate cut into a circle with a slot for a handle and you get the idea. The bakestone was placed on the gas stove - in the days when we had coal gas instead of the fast-disappearing stuff from the North Sea - and greased with lard applied with a twist of greasproof paper or the wrapper of the block of lard. The cakes themselves are made from a form of pastry or dough with raisins and/or mixed fruit rolled out flat, cut out with a pastry cutter, placed on the bakestone and flipped over half-way through cooking. Straight from the bakestone they are gorgeous and moreish, especially if dusted with caster sugar. My Nan in Barry made them and they bring back many happy memories!

 

Pixie - sorry for hi-jacking your thread yet again. Try your local supermarket for these delicacies if you haven't discovered them already.

 

Chris

Further west, bakestones were known as 'plancs' (the Spanish have a similar thing called 'La plancha'), and were quite often artisanal productions by family members in the steel industry. My mother's one came from great-great-grandfather who worked at Cwnfelin works, Swansea, at the beginning of the 20th century, but the foundrymen at Landore would still knock you one out thirty years ago. The supermarket ones are usually a traversty (much like their faggots!), but they're easy to make. Essential seasoning is a bit of ground mace, and some mixed peel- hang it all, I think I might make some this afternoon....

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...............(the Spanish have a similar thing called 'La plancha'), ....................... The supermarket ones are usually a traversty (much like their faggots!), but they're easy to make.

.

Brian,

.

My 'plancha' is of the more modern - electric powered - type. But is a cracking thing to cook with all the same - Iberdrola permitting !.

.

As for supermarket 'bakestones' or 'Welsh cakes' - you never tasted my mother's !!

.

Now, faggots, that's something else - with peas (mushy or processed ?) and an onion based gravy ........... hmmmmmmmmm !

.

Brian

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