Bachmann announcements - 2011

[The Stationmaster]

Quite correct, however if we recall say a decade or so ago, then the number and varierty of Western designs in the catalogue outnumbered those of the LNER by a decent amount (they still do). You might say that Bachmann is finally beginning to play catch up.

 

In the past - at some time - no doubt the number of Western types outnumbered the limited number of LNER types in Bachmann's catalogue. But for the 2011 catalogue that is not the case; according to my count - for the nationalised period and excluding BR Standards - the number of Western steam engine designs in the 2011 catalogue is 8 and the number of Eastern designs is 9 so, while it is a narrow margin, I can't quite see how 8 outnumbers 9?

[Guest Max Stafford]

Although I would have warmly welcomed a completely revamped V2, I'll settle for a new chassis provided they've done the Cartazzi truck in the same manner as their Peppercorns. The body itself isn't that bad and with the addition of decent flush cab glazing and some high quality cast body fittings I'm quite sure an extremely nice model will be possible. I'll certainly be giving it the treatment. The wheelbase dimensions quoted earlier though have convinced me that NER 0-6-0s will be forthcoming and really quite soon. I think if people are sufficiently swooning over the new 'C's and '3F's then they will continue to do so over a nice light green 0-6-0. Even if Bachmann don't follow this path (which I'm increasingly inclined to doubt as it maximises use of a chassis tooling and as such requires only the body and tender to be tooled for a new project), there is an opportunity for Golden Arrow to produce a resin body to fit the proprietary chassis, much like the old days of GEM kits fitted to proprietary chassis.

 

Times of promise!

 

Dave.

[The Stationmaster]

Although I would have warmly welcomed a completely revamped V2, I'll settle for a new chassis provided they've done the Cartazzi truck in the same manner as their Peppercorns. The body itself isn't that bad and with the addition of decent flush cab glazing and some high quality cast body fittings I'm quite sure an extremely nice model will be possible. I'll certainly be giving it the treatment. The wheelbase dimensions quoted earlier though have convinced me that NER 0-6-0s will be forthcoming and really quite soon. I think if people are sufficiently swooning over the new 'C's and '3F's then they will continue to do so over a nice light green 0-6-0. Even if Bachmann don't follow this path (which I'm increasingly inclined to doubt as it maximises use of a chassis tooling and as such requires only the body and tender to be tooled for a new project), there is an opportunity for Golden Arrow to produce a resin body to fit the proprietary chassis, much like the old days of GEM kits fitted to proprietary chassis.

 

Times of promise!

Dave.

 

 

 

I think the 'themed link' idea they have of buildings going with locos could readily be extended to the north east, it strikes me as a fairly obvious target although i don't know if loco types would sit easily with the most 'available' buildings on, probably, the NYMR. In my view - as someone well remote from the are but having a bit of interest from a railway viewpoint (but not modelling) the border branches or the Stainmore route (particularly the latter) offer some excellent opportunities but alas they aren't there any more. So the most likely line is probably the NYMR along with one of the prettier NER 0-6-0 classes. That then opens up some excellent modelling opportunities because with some impetus from the R-T-R end you could quite prototypically be running V2s (and on occasion even an A4 I believe) on single line branches with school specials to small country stations. Chuck in a decent revamp of the D49 from Hornby and those folk in the north east will have the rest of us crying over our cornflakes.

[Guest Max Stafford]

Interestingly Mike, the J21 would be an excellent choice from a Stainmore perspective. This is because the J21 was the last remaining indigenous type operating on the line in the 1950s along with the largely similar J25. The other types were Ivatt and Standard 2s and 4s with regular appearances from 3MT tanks and 2-6-0s. With the exception of the Standard 2 and 3 moguls, every other type to recreate the last phase of operations on this wonderful line is now in existence. I think the final standards won't be too far away either.

On a slightly different tack, I'm sure I read that the coupled wheelbase for the LNWR G2 corresponds with that of the NE's Q6 and if so, that may well also be 'when' rather than 'if'.

What are we to make of the Caledonian signal box though? If there is indeed a preserved line logic in operation, that model for me is an extremely interesting development.

 

Dave.

[D605Eagle]

In the past - at some time - no doubt the number of Western types outnumbered the limited number of LNER types in Bachmann's catalogue. But for the 2011 catalogue that is not the case; according to my count - for the nationalised period and excluding BR Standards - the number of Western steam engine designs in the 2011 catalogue is 8 and the number of Eastern designs is 9 so, while it is a narrow margin, I can't quite see how 8 outnumbers 9?

Thats hardly fair just choosing this year. All previous models can be readily bought second hand from various sources. If you include Hornby, virtually every GWR 4-6-0 have been made, can you say the same about LNER 4-6-0s?

[Bon Accord]

But for the 2011 catalogue that is not the case; according to my count - for the nationalised period and excluding BR Standards - the number of Western steam engine designs in the 2011 catalogue is 8 and the number of Eastern designs is 9 so, while it is a narrow margin, I can't quite see how 8 outnumbers 9?

 

Things may be verging on the even stevens this year, but a flick through past catalogues will reveal a far wider (G)WR range than those from the East.

WR and SR modellers have been pretty decently catered for loco wise by both Hornby and Bachmann for the last couple of decades, ranging from shunters to Class 8's and everything in between, plus occasional specials**. Whereas upto a couple of years ago, decent LNER models seem to have been solely in the vein of the larger, more famous prototypes (V1/3 being a notable exception).

Thankfully for these past few years the manufacturers have made efforts to redress that balance, although of late Bachmann does seem to be neglecting the Southern side of things - although Hornby noticeably isn't.

Looking at the past 20 years as a whole, Southern and Western Region modellers really have very little to crow about.

 

**City of Truro being a case in point. What chance of a similar one off in the shape of CR 123, a Stirling Single or Midland Spinner? Very, very little indeed I'd wager!

[Ozexpatriate]

If you include Hornby, virtually every GWR 4-6-0 have been made, can you say the same about LNER 4-6-0s?

True, except for the Star; and the Hornby Saint hardly stands up. But isn't that really only because there are fewer GWR 4-6-0s compared with the amalgam of the GCR, NER and GER?

 

Star, Castle, King, Saint, Hall, Modified Hall, Grange, Manor, (Hawksworth) County (9) versus

B1/B18, B2/B19, B3, B4, B5, B6, B7, B8, B9, B12, B13, B14, B15, B16, B17, Thompson B1, B2 (17 or 19 depending on how you count).

 

I could turn the argument around and say "Why not do the Star?" it would round out the 'gaping hole' in RTR, GWR express locomotives, plus there's even one in the NRM. I think the whole argument is a bit thin.

[Ozexpatriate]

Things may be verging on the even stevens this year, but a flick through past catalogues will reveal a far wider (G)WR range than those from the East.

How far back should one go? In 2000, there were 12 LNER items and 6 GWR liveried items. (This counts every running number in the catalogue not unique classes.)

LNER 12 .. BR(ER) 06 .. TOTAL 18

GWR. 06 .. BR(WR) 09 .. TOTAL 15

 

Over time the unique classes Bachmann have made for the GWR and LNER are not that radically different in number. I think this list is accurate, but would welcome corrections.

GWR ------------------------ LNER

Manor ............. 4-6-0 -- A4 ............ 4-6-2

Hall .............. 4-6-0 -- K3 ............ 2-6-0

Modified Hall ..... 4-6-0 -- B1 ............ 4-6-0

City .............. 4-4-0 -- V2 ............ 2-6-2

32XX Earl (Dukedog) 4-4-0 -- V1/V3 ......... 2-6-2T

43XX / 93XX ....... 2-6-0 -- Robinson O4 ... 2-8-0

45XX Prairie ...... 2-6-2T - Austerity ..... 2-8-0

4575 Prairie ...... 2-6-2T - J72 ........... 0-6-0

56XX .............. 0-6-2T - J39 ........... 0-6-0

2251 Collett Goods. 0-6-0 -- A1 (Peppercorn) 4-6-2

8750 Pannier ...... 0-6-0T - A2 (Peppercorn) 4-6-2

57XX Pannier ...... 0-6-0T

ROD (30XX) ........ 2-8-0

 

I don't see this as a "far wider range".

 

WR and SR modellers have been pretty decently catered for loco wise ... plus occasional specials**. **City of Truro being a case in point. What chance of a similar one off in the shape of CR 123, a Stirling Single or Midland Spinner? Very, very little indeed I'd wager!

Didn't Hornby reintroduce the CR 123? If I'm not mistaken it's in their 2011 catalogue. I'm interested in your wager for the Stirling Single. I think it's exactly the sort of thing the NRM might do and would make a nice model.

[Oldddudders]

I think the 'themed link' idea they have of buildings going with locos could readily be extended to the north east, it strikes me as a fairly obvious target although i don't know if loco types would sit easily with the most 'available' buildings on, probably, the NYMR. In my view - as someone well remote from the are but having a bit of interest from a railway viewpoint (but not modelling) the border branches or the Stainmore route (particularly the latter) offer some excellent opportunities but alas they aren't there any more. So the most likely line is probably the NYMR along with one of the prettier NER 0-6-0 classes.

Does Goathland count?

 

http://www.themodelcentre.co.uk/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?page=Scenecraft_Goathland_Station.htm&cart_id=1300442534.171

[Bon Accord]

How far back should one go? In 2000, there were 12 LNER items and 6 GWR liveried items. (This counts every running number in the catalogue not unique classes.)

LNER 12 .. BR(ER) 06 .. TOTAL 18

GWR. 06 .. BR(WR) 09 .. TOTAL 15

 

Over time the unique classes Bachmann have made for the GWR and LNER are not that radically different in number. I think this list is accurate, but would welcome corrections.

GWR ------------------------ LNER

Manor ............. 4-6-0 -- A4 ............ 4-6-2

Hall .............. 4-6-0 -- K3 ............ 2-6-0

Modified Hall ..... 4-6-0 -- B1 ............ 4-6-0

City .............. 4-4-0 -- V2 ............ 2-6-2

32XX Earl (Dukedog) 4-4-0 -- V1/V3 ......... 2-6-2T

43XX / 93XX ....... 2-6-0 -- Robinson O4 ... 2-8-0

45XX Prairie ...... 2-6-2T - Austerity ..... 2-8-0

4575 Prairie ...... 2-6-2T - J72 ........... 0-6-0

56XX .............. 0-6-2T - J39 ........... 0-6-0

2251 Collett Goods. 0-6-0 -- A1 (Peppercorn) 4-6-2

8750 Pannier ...... 0-6-0T - A2 (Peppercorn) 4-6-2

57XX Pannier ...... 0-6-0T

ROD (30XX) ........ 2-8-0

 

I don't see this as a "far wider range".

 

 

Didn't Hornby reintroduce the CR 123? If I'm not mistaken it's in their 2011 catalogue. I'm interested in your wager for the Stirling Single. I think it's exactly the sort of thing the NRM might do and would make a nice model.

 

I see it as a much wider range, especially when you consider those available from Hornby, which is what I was doing with my previous comment. I do not count one class represented but with 4 running numbers, only those where the physical (unique) classes are/have been produced.

Of your LNER list, 4 of those models have appeared within the last 7 years or so, whereas most of the aforementioned GWR range predates/equals that.

Of the list itself, personally l wouldn't call the Austerity a purely LNER model (no more than an LNER built 8F) and lets not forget that the 'basic' J72 is about 3 decades old, so I've excluded that from my sums as much as I do the Hornby J38 and 27XX.

For a while we were left with five serious RTR LNER models to choose from - A4, B1, J39, V1/3 and V2, I don't consider the Hornby models from the circa 2000 period as 'serious' as to be quite honest they weren't upto much, even the late 90s A3/A4 upgrade.

 

Taking into account both ranges, the following of what I at least would call half decent and 'modern' models have appeared/are in production:

 

LNER/ER: A1, A2, A3, A4, B1, B17, J39, L1, 04, V1/3, V2 Total = 11

GWR/WR: 14XX, 2251, 28XX, 32XX, 3850, 43XX, 45XX, 4575, 56XX, 57XX, 8750, City, ROD, Manor, Hall, Modified Hall, Grange, County, Castle, King Total = 20

 

 

Hornby did indeed reintroduce CR123 a few years ago and I did buy the Ltd Ed Train pack as much as for nostalgia as anything else, but it's hardly a modern scale model is it!

The same goes for the 'Lord of the Isles' set!

[frobisher]

Taking into account both ranges, the following (what I at least would call decent and 'modern') models have appeared/are in production:

 

LNER/ER: A1 (Gresley), A1, A2, A3, A4, B1, B17, J39, L1, 04, V1/3, V2 Total = 12

GWR/WR: 2251, 28XX, 32XX, 3850, 43XX, 45XX, 4575, 56XX, 57XX, 8750, City, ROD, Manor, Hall, Grange, County, Castle, King Total = 18

 

Fixed that for you (The Modified Hall is not in production, and the 14XX is the same vintage as the J72 with similiar "issues", plus the Gresley A1 is as distinct as the 45XX from the 4575)

[Bon Accord]

I had forgotten all about the Gresley A1 (I haven't bought one yet, but had meant to when Great Northern appeared).

However the Modified Hall has at least appeared and I was under the impression that it just isn't in production at the moment, so Ion that basis I respectfully resubmit that one for inclusion!

Point taken about the 14XX. Can anyone remember if Dapol actually refurbished the old Airfrix tooling before its mid 90s rebirth, or was it a purely mechanical upgrade? If memory serves it still features a lot of moulded on detail and is sans lamp irons.

[Western Scottish]

Well I'm hoping the appearance of a Caledonian Signal Box might herald the arrival of a Caley 0-6-0 nect year. If the North East thinks its hard done by, what about Scotland. A Caley Pug(1980), Superannuated 123 (1962?certainly early 60s) and J83 (1976). All from the old Triang/ Hornby, Hornby Railways range- nothing at all from Bachmann. An 812 in Caley Blue would be sooooooo nice!

[coachmann]

The person saying there are three LNER locos because they carry different numbers should consider going into politics!

[The Stationmaster]

How far back should one go? In 2000, there were 12 LNER items and 6 GWR liveried items. (This counts every running number in the catalogue not unique classes.)

LNER 12 .. BR(ER) 06 .. TOTAL 18

GWR. 06 .. BR(WR) 09 .. TOTAL 15

 

Over time the unique classes Bachmann have made for the GWR and LNER are not that radically different in number. I think this list is accurate, but would welcome corrections.

GWR ------------------------ LNER

Manor ............. 4-6-0 -- A4 ............ 4-6-2

Hall .............. 4-6-0 -- K3 ............ 2-6-0

Modified Hall ..... 4-6-0 -- B1 ............ 4-6-0

City .............. 4-4-0 -- V2 ............ 2-6-2

32XX Earl (Dukedog) 4-4-0 -- V1/V3 ......... 2-6-2T

43XX / 93XX ....... 2-6-0 -- Robinson O4 ... 2-8-0

45XX Prairie ...... 2-6-2T - Austerity ..... 2-8-0

4575 Prairie ...... 2-6-2T - J72 ........... 0-6-0

56XX .............. 0-6-2T - J39 ........... 0-6-0

2251 Collett Goods. 0-6-0 -- A1 (Peppercorn) 4-6-2

8750 Pannier ...... 0-6-0T - A2 (Peppercorn) 4-6-2

57XX Pannier ...... 0-6-0T

ROD (30XX) ........ 2-8-0

 

I don't see this as a "far wider range".

 

 

Didn't Hornby reintroduce the CR 123? If I'm not mistaken it's in their 2011 catalogue. I'm interested in your wager for the Stirling Single. I think it's exactly the sort of thing the NRM might do and would make a nice model.

 

 

 

I don't see how the 'City' 4-4-0 could really be counted as it was a commissioned model - not a Bachmann release - this making an even more even match; the marketing choice was down to the NRM and not Bachmannj. Once one looks at the year the models were introduced (the most recent GWR introductions being 2005 for the 'Hall' and 2010/11 for the 30XX ROD) it is a little clearer that more recently Bachmann has been giving more attention to the Eastern side and it is continuing to do so this year with chassis upgrades. (Incidentally as the subject of this thread is the 2011 range it didn't strike me as at all biased or unequal to compare the contents of the 2011 catalogue). And there is no denying that as far as Bachmann is concerned teh Southern has been seriously neglected for a long time.

 

Whatever the situation is between the Western and Eastern what we have seen in Bachmann's 2011 programme is logical use of techniques and existing tooling methods to produce new models which are going to be popular and are reasonably priced. And to introduce the 'Hornby + Bachmann together give us ...' approach is - I think - to seriously misunderstand the way the market works (or at least the way marketing departments and accountants work). Both are in business to make things which will sell at maximum profit to the company and its shareholders and not to ensure there is an even balance of loco types between the Big Four or to make sure the entire gamut of British mainline diesels is available off the boxshifters' shelves for less than, say, 90 quid a copy. Regrettably there are some worrying trends emerging from Margate this year which leave one wondering what on earth their marketing and pricing policies are and they do not. I think, serve our hobby too well. But let's not kid ourselves that the opposite situation - of entirely complementary ranges will ever emerge because the market itself will ensure that it never does.

 

As a I mentioned before there is a very simple answer - if someone is sure the market is there all they have to do is march along to Dapol or perhaps Bachmann (as far as steam outline is concerned) and say 'I wanna JXX' and here's the dosh to get the project started plus my draft contract for us to agree a minimum production run of Y,000 units at such & such cost'. And it wouldn't be expensive would it because even if the development costs £100,000 when that is spread over a couple of thousand people it will only be 50 quid each. In fact because it is clearly such a surefire thing you'd better deal me in because it sounds as if the return on investment will be far better than putting the money in a bank.

[NorthernGuard]

Bachmann / Grafar work with specialists who are able and willing to help them - and keep our mouths shut; the Covhop and BAA being good examples. Hornby undoubtedly use my photos - the Shark being an example - but I have never had a single correspondence with them.

 

Paul Bartlett

[NorthernGuard]

Ooops sorry! Fat fingers at work I'm afraid. What I wanted to do was thank Paul (& anyone else who contributed) who has answered my prayer for my personal Holy Grail: the Covhop! I've pestered those nice chaps at Parkside for years & now Bachmann is doing the business at a price which will just about make a decent block train affordable. Oh frabjous day! Now I need to establish if I need fitted/piped/loose coupled. The spilt powder made them all look grey in B&W photos!

It's some measure of my own deluded obsession that I couldn't believe the muted reaction to this world-shattering anouncement. Don't those fools realise? This is the missing piece, the last remaining obstacle/excuse preventing the building of Kirkham Goods. Portholes & LMR Cravens Power-twins won't go amiss either. So, for me an exciting programme, which may not satisfy everyone's wish list but did I complain about all those Southern releases from Hornby? No, I appreciate fine models & console myself with the thought that all good things come to those who wait & besides I couldn't afford all my wishes to be granted in one go!

The Portholes are of course welcome & Bachmann is to be congratulated for the range of types covered. It's a shame Hornby haven't done likewise with their Stanier stock: the distinctive later style wasn't as common & in any case didn't appear in numbers until after Nationalisation. Having said that, you don't necessarily need all the variants of a particular style to create an authentic consist: typical trains were more often made up of a range of 'Periods' & liveries. That's all part of the fun & interest in recreating them in miniature. Given the impressive range of Maunsell stock it's strange that the far more numerous & widely travelled Stanier stock only merits 3 types (+ the BG).

Re: Thompson B1. The improved chassis is to be welcomed. The body is quite old, but for most of us accurate enough & with minimal detailing a decent B1 will be had. I expect Hornby's will have more fine details & may outperform the Bachmann model, but it will be dearer. After discounting I guess the difference will be £20, which is about the same as the 2 Tornados. For some it will be the deciding factor; for others the higher spec will swing it. For me the choice of numbers may be the clincher as happened with the Standard 4 4-6-0s. I wonder if Hornby will give us smokebox door & other variants? I'm not sure the chassis will be available as a spare. Bachmann stopped doing them a while back. Would they be sufficiently cheaper than the whole loco to be worthwhile?

If I have a grumble it's the way Bachmann only offers a given loco as either DC, DCC or DCC Sound. Hornby at least offers a choice of Digital or Analogue, though they also have certain numbers only available with Digital Sound. Paying an extra tenner for a superfluous chip is an irritation. Paying double the price for a sound chip I don't want to get the number I want is madness.

[ozzyo]

Ref: wide spread use of 3f's, there is a nice picture in Irwell press Steam City Carlisle of 3F 43622 with 68A shed plate acting as north end station pilot.

 

 

 

I can find 68B Dumfries in my shed books but not 68A where is it please .

 

OzzyO.

[Guest Max Stafford]

Traditionally being a former Caledonian establishment, Kingmoor was for most of it's life considered a Scottish shed and as a result in 1948 was included in the ScR's shed zones as 68A with Dumfries, Beattock, and Sranraer under its aegis, as was Canal for a while. 68A disappeared in 1958 during a regional boundary re-shuffle when the LMR expanded to include the southern end of the Caley and the Waverley as far as Gretna Junction and Kershopefoot stations respectively. At that time Carlisle became the senior depot for a new Carlisle district set-up, being designated 12A from this point on. The previous 12A was Upperby which then became 12B, rightly subordinate to the obvious superiority of the Caley...

 

Dave.

[hmrspaul]

What I wanted to do was thank Paul (& anyone else who contributed) who has answered my prayer for my personal Holy Grail: the Covhop! I've pestered those nice chaps at Parkside for years & now Bachmann is doing the business at a price which will just about make a decent block train affordable. Oh frabjous day! Now I need to establish if I need fitted/piped/loose coupled. The spilt powder made them all look grey in B&W photos!

 

Thanks for comments, others had much more to do with the Covhop work than me.

 

Lots of colour photographs of Covhops here - http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brcovhop but may not be available after 31 March!

 

Paul Bartlett

[NINJA]

The photo of the 3F 68A nameplate as North end pilot at Carlisle was dated 1953.

[Ozexpatriate]

The person saying there are three LNER locos because they carry different numbers should consider going into politics!

So Coach, can I count on your vote?

 

 

The RTR market does not (typically) ship models in un-numbered works grey for the modelling fraternity to personalize (though doubtless there are many who would like this option). It would be Ready-to-Paint if they did.

 

When multiple models from a single set of tooling are offered in a catalogue, let's say hypothetically, in a pre-nationalization livery, one early crest and two late crest BR liveries, I do think it's relevant to count them all to get a complete picture of how the product is marketed and sold. It was an important enough distinction for the manufacturer to make and market them that way and I'm sure they keep track of which liveries sell.

 

I see two sensible metrics of how manufacturers serve the RTR market

1. the list of unique tooling (irrespective of applied paint) over a period of years per region

2. the list of individual running numbers in a given catalogue year per operating entity

 

I think that both approaches have merit, for slightly different purposes, so long as the metric is consistently applied when comparisons are made.

[ozzyo]

Hello All,

 

slightly off topic but on topic if you see what I mean. Why don't manufactures sell locos, coaches, wagons. In a basic livery, say fully lined L.N.E.R. but with no numbers letters, so the modeler can add his/her own numbers/lettering. The Americans had had something along these lines for years.

 

OzzyO.

[G-BOAF]

Yes this is OT and has been discussed on a thread somewhere else.....

 

Aside from the cases where this is already being done (Heljan 47), there is scope for this (especially with coaches) BUT the present policy ensures sales are spread out.

With locos, such a policy would be increasingly difficult. Where manufacturers are producing models with particular details, the scope of possible numbers becomes limited. The discerning modeller would still want to wait for a particular boiler, running plate, or chimney variation to suite their particular time period.

 

Then there's the printed detail that we welcome - the works plates, shed code etc that would need transfers for application. If we assume that we would want the end product to look as good as factory printed ones, you could argue that those modellers capable of such a finish are proportionately small. Therefore the market for such models would be smaller than a standard release.

 

I would stick my neck out and say today's highly detailed locos, and optional running numbers just don't mix!

[petee19]

On Bachmanns web site, and in their new catalogue they make reference to the TPO coaches being used in conjunction with the Scale Scenecraft TPO Apparatus,what is the point of this comment when the coaches themselves have no apparatus for collection and discharge,or do they plan to make modifications to the coaches, although those shown in the catalogue are similar to the MZ releases.

 

Pete.