ChrisB Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Good luck with this. I would definitely be in the market for some SPAs but even more so some of the derivatives. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Summerisle Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I too would like to wish you luck with this, but would echo what those wise old hands have said about watching your back. It's clear from Bachmanns announcement of the MLV that they don't welcome competition and making model trains can be a cuthroat business. If you don't mind me offering some suggestions, (which your free to dismiss, and may be wide of the mark as I don't work in this area); If you do go forward you should aim to get it out as quickly as possible, as having almost certainly seen your announcement it wouldn't surprise me if Bachmann fast-tracked an SPA in 00 if one is in development, in order to discourage future competition. If your minimum runs are 1000, and you can't make them smaller, then I'd say you should give thought to one of those runs possibly be unnumbered but supplied with alternative transfers for several different models. If you can, then I'd try and get the Hoods for the SEA's (you've obviously done some work in this area) and any extra components required for the SHA(KTA) wagons produced as quickly as possible and make them available (with additional transfers,) with unnumbered wagons (presuming you were to produce these) I think doing the above three things would certainly up your chances of selling out your first production run and hopefully reaching a break even point. As a small independent producer you need to play to your strengths of being more flexible than the big boys are able to be when it comes to producing what your customers want. I hope you don't think what I've written above is complete rot, and I hope it's to some extent helpful, like I say I'm no expert on these things. Once again best of luck, and when these come to market I'll definitely have two or three. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Flynn Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 Hi I have had a few PM,s from a few friends and learned a few lessons already which will not happen with next wagon. All i can say is wait and see?Bachmann have a very big program this year and i think one wagon will be least of there problems? Hugh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stuart A Posted March 10, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 10, 2011 I don't suppose you'd consider shrinking the hood down to 2mm scale for the forthcoming Farish models? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric709 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 hi there, Best of luck with this venture, refreshing to see somebody taking on the "big boys" i'll certainly be in the market for half a dozen or so.... I do tend to agree with Lord Summerisle's comments regarding doing un-numbered wagons and then providing some sort of number sheet alongside but I would imagine this may increase the cost. It would however allow the purchaser to have a unique fleet in a matter of minutes, something r-t-r manufacturers dont seem to focus on...it would be another feather in your cap! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted March 10, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 10, 2011 I don't suppose you'd consider shrinking the hood down to 2mm scale for the forthcoming Farish models? Hi Thats something I would be interested in but I think Farish may go down this route in the future. Cheers Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 . It's clear from Bachmanns announcement of the MLV that they don't welcome competition Bit of a strong inference there, which IMO makes Bachmann sound unnecessarily predatory; I'm not sure why it's 'clear' as I dont see them rushing to duplicate Flangeway's Mermaid, for instance. Their MLV is a natural add-on to the existing CEP (they certainly wouldnt have touched it otherwise), and as has been said in the relevant thread, the Replica one has been a long time coming. Back to the OP, looks nice Hugh and I wish you well with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Summerisle Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Bit of a strong inference there, which IMO makes Bachmann sound unnecessarily predatory; I'm not sure why it's 'clear' as I dont see them rushing to duplicate Flangeway's Mermaid, for instance. Their MLV is a natural add-on to the existing CEP (they certainly wouldnt have touched it otherwise), and as has been said in the relevant thread, the Replica one has been a long time coming. I don't know about predatory but I'd certainly regard replicating a much smaller companies forthcoming flagship product, at what looks likely to be a lower price point, as 'playing hardball'. Business is business however and I'm not out to paint Bachmann as Mammon personified, I'm generally just interested in the decisions and motivations with regard to the moves that the rtr manufacturers make. I can see your point about it being a natural add on, and I've no doubt that because of their much larger distribution/publicity that Bachmann will shift more MLVs than Replica ever would have done. But it's almost certain that they will to some extent cannibalise sales from each other, and that's always going to hurt Replica more than Bachmann. In turn that's probably going to limit the amount of money that Replica have available to reinvest in their next model. I'd also argue that seeing a small business like Replica have one of their products duplicated is likely to dissuade other potential newcomers to the rtr marketplace. With the arrival of the internet allowing easier contact with toolmakers/manufacturers and the widespread availability of CAD id say the barriers to entry into the market are quite a lot lower now than they were even a few years ago, and getting lower all the time, and new manufacturers undobtedly are a threat to Bachmanns market share and margins. I'm sure that all these factors are in the minds of those that make the decisions about what Bachmann bring to market I'd certainly agree with you that the delays with the Replica model have left the door open for Bachmann, with regards to flangeways mermaid I'd say a competitor with a couple of one off engineers wagons consists of less of a threat than one with a fully operational low profile chassis. Anyway I'm sorry I've rambled a bit and gone on far longer than I intended to, as well as dragging Hugh's thread completely offtopic, It's just I find analysing and discussing the business decisions of RTR manufacturers genuinely interesting Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I don't know about predatory but I'd certainly regard replicating a much smaller companies forthcoming flagship product, at what looks likely to be a lower price point, as 'playing hardball'. What you said was they 'didn't welcome competition'; well, who does? I wouldnt disagree with the 'hardball' assessment; they obviously have an eye for things that constitute a good commercial case for themselves, but that's not at all the same as actively undermining a smaller competitor by deliberate duplication. It's just I find analysing and discussing the business decisions of RTR manufacturers genuinely interesting Judging by the threads discussing the announcements of the 'big two'. a lot of us do Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted March 10, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 10, 2011 It's already been stated that there is a kit, but there are still lots of people out there that prefer r-t-r. Even established "modellers".......... I have no problem building kits and already have 5 Cambrian SPA's, but it's highly likely that I'll buy some of your wagons because I need more SPA's and my modelling time is limited and the few quid difference between kit and your price more than compensates for my time. (That sounds like I'm putting Cambrian down, but that's definitely not the case!) The SPA is a good choice (IMO) as the chassis lends itself to ZCA/Sea Urchins and other SPA variants so that those that want to model the variants will probably use your wagon as a basis. Providing of course, that you don't do too many of the variants! I wish you well with your venture and await the second wagon announcement. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Flynn Posted March 11, 2011 Author Share Posted March 11, 2011 Hi i intend to do other variations from basic model and will be doing mould to compensate as much as possible.but it will require buying 1 new mould for each one.(the spa uses 3 moulds). To answer other question no one has announced a SPA. All i want to do is 2-3 wagons a year so i have to look at what wagon has at least 2-3 colour schemes to make project viable. Hugh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I am not sure that Flangeway are a suitable comparison as they have used (IIRC) Dapol to produce their models so in a way, thye have taken out one competitor and possibly therefore put off duplication by the other 2 big boys. The danger with Bachmann and Hornby and the SPA is it uses a common chassis to models already within or announced to be within their ranges (OBA, OTA, etc) and so is a very logical extension of their business case for the entire range of air brake opens. I would expect them to produce it in one form or another as a result as it will fit very well with the other new range of BBA / BAA wagons. All the same, best of luck with this, it will be interesting to see the results and would be in the market for some SPAs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Flynn Posted March 11, 2011 Author Share Posted March 11, 2011 hi if you check ota oca are not same chassis as SPA. Hugh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric709 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Hi Hugh, Will there be a website or anything coming online. Or will you just advertise in the modelling press? Are you open to suggestions for new models or do you already have them in mind? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted March 11, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 11, 2011 Watching with interest While I have already got enough Spa built from kits awaiting paint I would definitely be interested in the rebodied urchin if you did it at a later date Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Flynn Posted March 11, 2011 Author Share Posted March 11, 2011 hi Yes there will be a web site once i have sample wagon Sorry i do not want to go down route of other ideas this is because things usually are what you would like to see ,and maybe not that which would be a viable wagon. hugh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted March 11, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 11, 2011 I wish you every success in this venture Hugh, looks to be very interesting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ants Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Hello Hugh The spa does sound interesting, good luck. I would also be interested in some, I look forward to the pre productions models. Ant Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Flynn Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 Hi just a update all cad work will be finished next week. Just a couple of images to show how its going along. After spending time with cad designer there is a few mods still to be sorted so these are only early prints Hugh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ants Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Looking good, so will you be going for the rail freight red or dutch grey/yellow? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Flynn Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 hi Railfreight will be in first batch. My min order is 2000 so 2 x 500 railfreight (2 numbers) and 2 x 500 other Hugh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Scott Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 looking good Hughie, put me down for a couple of handfulls. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Hi Hugh Admire your willingness to dive in with a "modern" air-brake design as your first RTR model, and wish you well with the project. Might be a little risky in terms of Bachmann's similar vehicle chassis, but you don't get too faqr by sitting on the fence these days. My two penn'oth would be retain the steel carrying theme, but take a look at all those wonderful coil carriers, as well as the already mentioned Plate (SPV). The RTR ranges of the big manufacturers are distinctly short of steel carriers, and that transition (1960s era) market is so strong. Good luck Hugh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Flynn Posted April 5, 2011 Author Share Posted April 5, 2011 Hi thiank you for support ,the chassis is not quite the same as Bachmann. I picked this wagon due to colour variations and wagon variations Today i have recieved the cad designs with detail added and there is literally only a few small tweeks to finish project. Hugh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 I wish you luck with this project Hugh, and will certainly be in the market for a couple of SPAs in original Railfreight Red, even though they are slightly too modern for my chosen modelling period. As to future subjects, there are still plenty of wagons crying out to be made; 21T and 24.5T Mineral and Hopper wagons, Tube and Pipe wagons, to name a few. Looking forward to your next project. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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