Lime Street Station

[3 link]

Wow,

 

That's some trackwork, I would not know where to start with the wiring .

 

Martyn.

[Michael Delamar]

John does all the wiring, extremley neat and thought out, every thing well documented.

 

i had some more even earlier photos but cant find them at the moment.

[Michael Delamar]

interesting shot in here of the turbomotive at Lime street.

 

http://www.pendragonpublishing.co.uk/Photographs_of_Eric_Treacy.pdf

[Steve Hewitt]

Mike,

 

The text gives some very interesting details on "Running In" turns to and from Lime Street which we can buld into our operating schedule.

 

Steve.

Edited January 14, 2012 by SteveAtBax

[Steve Hewitt]

Some recent posts have mentioned the "wiring" underneath Lime Street's boards, and Mike's recent pictures of some of the trackwork made by Chris Hewitt have prompted me to try to describe how the layout is actually controlled, and the the technology that has been used to create the control system.

 

The principles are basic DC control.

There are three controllers, two for the Station area and one for the Sector Plate/Storage Sidings.

Traction current is applied to the track only in the sections necessary for the selected routes.

 

A route is selected on the control panel using two push buttons on a geographic display.

 

The laft side of the Station Control Panel

The right hand side of the Station Control Panel

 

This is the Sector Plate/Storage control panel.

 

The first button pressed is the "from" location, the second is the "to" location.

 

A number of actions follow, each determined by the main process controller:

1. The route selected must be a valid route. (there are some 220 possible routes in the Station area)

2. The route selected must not conflict with any other route already set.

3. All the points along the route are set.

The movement of each Fulgurex point machine is controlled by its own relay, which will be "normal" or "reversed".

4. Changeover contacts on each point machine complete a circuit which logically represents the route.

When this circuit is complete, it indicates that each point machine has moved correctly, and confirms the route.

5, Separate relays connect traction current from the operator's controller to each finite element of the set route. These can be very small elements of track, only a few centimetres long in complex areas of pointwork.

6. Mini LEDs illuminate the route on the control panel.

7. After a few seconds delay, the necessary signals along the route are cleared.

8. The signal aspect is repeated on the control panel

 

Any error occuring during the above will halt the process and sound an alarm.

e.g If a point machine didn't move, or the route conflicted with one already set.

 

After the move is completed, the operator hits the "cancel" button and is ready to give his next command.

This releases all the routes resources to be used for a subsequent command.

 

So, what does this look like in reality:

 

Here is photo of the underside of "board 8". This is the board supporting the platform exits on the South side of the station, and the entrance to the turntable area.

You can see the array of relays for this base board to the top right.

The circuit board to its left contains the servo controllers for all the signals on the South side - 16 in number.

 

This is one of the point machines in-situ.

 

The mechanical connection to the operating crank for the point.

 

The corresponding crank "above ground"

 

A close-up of the relay array.

 

For ease of maintenance, all the point machines are installed in a uniform way.

Here is a "spare" ready to be installed:

 

Finally, a close up of the Servo Control board, which we are currently commissioning.

None of the servos have yet been connected to this board.

 

I'll take a breather here, and post some details of the two main processers etc. later.

 

Steve.

Edited January 19, 2012 by SteveAtBax

[Michael Delamar]

I think Geoff's turntable mechanism would be of interest to members, if one of the guys doesnt get a shot of the gubbins and workings I will next time.

[7APT7]

Boy o Boy

 

That all look complex, did it all work first time...Doh haha

 

It all looks very snug...

 

Jamie

[gordon s]

Wiring of that quality takes me back a bit. An art form all of it own....Beautiful.

[devondynosoar118]

Sound of lower jaw hitting floor...

As usual for this thread another set of quality images of modelling of the highest standard.

[roundhouse]

I saw the turntable mechanism etc a few years ago when we were exhibiting near Lime St at the Barrow In Furness show and was very impressed with it. Havent seen the layout since but looking forwrd to doing so.

 

Ian

Edited January 19, 2012 by roundhouse

[CWJ]

A lovely piece of engineering, and it appears to be very intuitive from the operator's perspective too. No dialling of codes or clicking of mice.

 

Why is there a delay between the route being set and the signals being pulled off? Is this to give the signalman the opportunity to cancel the route (e.g. if he made a mistake) without the signals being put back on in front of a train?

 

Fantastic stuff; would love to see a photo of the control desk with a route illumintated.

 

Cheers,

 

Will

[The Stationmaster]

Steve,

 

When you talk about the 'Cancel button' does that cancel all routes which are set? It isn't entirely clear from your brief description. Presumably there is not route (against conflicting route) interlocking as such or is the audible alarm there only to draw attention to the fact that you are trying to set a route which won't call?

[Michael Delamar]

2 operators sit side by side at the station end, each has his own cancel button, if one makes a mistake its only his buzzer that will go off and his cancel button that needs to be pressed and he starts again

 

the delay in the signal coming off is a second or 2 after the route has set, just for a little realism as if to give the signal man time to pull the levers etc.

[RAY NORWOOD]

Hi Steve

This is a model railway of truely top standard modelling.

Looking forward to seeing it at the ally pally in March. There will four of us from Barnstaple just to see it.

 

Keep up the fantastic work.

 

RAY70B

[JeffP]

I, for one, would be VERY interested in details of the turntable:

How it was made, from what, how it's powered, how it indexes etc.

 

Thanks in advance.

[PaternosterRow]

Wow, stunning and awesome are inadequate to describe this engineering marvel. This is what you call true dedication to detail - should be on permanent display. Brilliant stuff and can't wait to see more.

[Steve Hewitt]

Why is there a delay between the route being set and the signals being pulled off? Is this to give the signalman the opportunity to cancel the route (e.g. if he made a mistake) without the signals being put back on in front of a train?

 

Fantastic stuff; would love to see a photo of the control desk with a route illumintated.

 

Cheers,

 

Will

 

Will,

The delay between the route being set and the signals clearing serves two main purposes:

 

1. To simulate the time taken by the signal man in the box moving from lever to lever.

The delay is a random period of some 5 to 8 seconds, and also applies between clearing the Starter and Advanced Starter signals.

 

2. The delay also allows the operator to use his "Signal Inhibit" button to prevent the signal clearing until the Inhibit button is pressed a second time.

This is used for example to allow an engine to be moved along a platform from the Buffer up to the Starter signal, or to hold an inbound train at the Gantry in the Cutting. In these cases, the move would be complete when the engine or train was stationary at the signal, and the Cancel button would then be used to leave it there without the signal having been cleared at all.

 

 

Steve,

 

When you talk about the 'Cancel button' does that cancel all routes which are set? It isn't entirely clear from your brief description. Presumably there is not route (against conflicting route) interlocking as such or is the audible alarm there only to draw attention to the fact that you are trying to set a route which won't call?

2 operators sit side by side at the station end, each has his own cancel button, if one makes a mistake its only his buzzer that will go off and his cancel button that needs to be pressed and he starts again

 

the delay in the signal coming off is a second or 2 after the route has set, just for a little realism as if to give the signal man time to pull the levers etc.

 

I think Michael has answered the question about the Cancel button quite well.

Thanks Mike.

 

As for Route Interlocking, John has sent me the following quote: "The software does incorporate route interlocking between the two operator positions. The reset button only clears it's respective route, leaving any other route untouched. As well as route interlocking, we have route proving, and route routining within the software, the route routining only being done on initial power up when the layout is first set up at a show, to prove all interboard connections are correct, and all points are responding."

 

I, for one, would be VERY interested in details of the turntable:

How it was made, from what, how it's powered, how it indexes etc.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

The two turntables and the sector plate are controlled with extreme accuracy by "Stepper Motor" technology.

Geoff Peters who makes all the control technology for the layout now markets the turntable controller, and the servo controller for semaphore signals as a commercial activity.

He has set up G F Controls with his friend Frank, and details of these products can be seen at:

http://www.gfcontrols.co.uk/index.php/news/

 

Steve.

Edited January 19, 2012 by SteveAtBax

[ColinW]

Another person looking forward to seeing this at Ally Pally in March.

 

Colin

[JeffP]

The two turntables and the sector plate are controlled with extreme accuracy by "Stepper Motor" technology.

Geoff Peters who makes all the control technology for the layout now markets the turntable controller, and the servo controller for semaphore signals as a commercial activity.

He has set up G F Controls with his friend Frank, and details of these products can be seen at:

http://www.gfcontrol...index.php/news/

 

Great news.

 

The cost, however, is WAY beyond me.

[Steve Hewitt]

John and I have spent today commissioning the signal control servos for the south side of the station, platforms 6 thru' 11, plus the ground signal on the turntable road.

 

This picture shows the signal for platforms 9 & 10.

 

When we'd done that, we re-assembled all the baseboards in preparation for the Ally Pally practice sessions which are planned for Feb 1st thru' Mar 15th.

 

Yesterday John brought the Roof sections back from the painter, where they have received the base colour of "dirty black".

 

Once the baseboards were erected we had room to bring the Roof Boxes into the shed, and couldn't resist putting the South Roof in place.

 

Steve.

[artizen]

Totally mad! :good: :good:

[Removed a/c]

I still can't believe it is "OO"

[Michael Delamar]

I still can't believe it is "OO"

1/76 yep, but the trackwork is EM gauge

[devondynosoar118]

That signal is work of art in itself! Trying to work out how to get to the Ally Pally show to see it!

[Welly]

How could I have missed this thread until today!

 

The electrics alone is worthy of congratulations - it is impossible to have route setting, working semaphores etc without proper design & installation.