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Les Green

Lime Street Station

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I was just thinking earlier that we could do with some photos of that magnificent fiddle-yard and then in among MD's photos... B)

 

The fiddle yard alone is a work of art. At the heart of it is a microprocessor controlled servo motor operated traverser. (That's not easy to type, never mind say..........................)

 

Cheers,

Mick

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should have some more shots of the sectorplate and fiddle yard somewhere, I didnt take many the other day, some more I did take, should have been having a proper running session but was mucking about running anything we wanted and taking photos, hard to get good shots with everything in focus but they at least show the atmosphere.

 

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the young boy continues to swing on his rope, we spoke to someone who said they actually used to do this here when they were kids,

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when they look down this is the view they would get..

limesti.jpg

limesto.jpg

 

this is the view Eric Treacy would get...

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Mike

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The fiddle yard alone is a work of art. At the heart of it is a microprocessor controlled servo motor operated traverser. (That's not easy to type, never mind say..........................)

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

 

Hi Mick,

 

Just to be pedantic, the technology used is a "Stepper Motor" not a "Servo Motor".

The sector plate is moved by a lead screw dragging a captive nut along as it is rotated by the stepper motor.

The technical stuff counts each little part of each revolution of the motor.

Knowing how far the motor has to turn for each track position is set up once by indexing buttons.

After that, its easy.

The motor always arives at the required position in the same direction, to eliminate any "backlash".

If it is running the other way, it simply over-runs a little and then reverses to the exact position.

I do mean exact, to a very small part of a millimetre.

 

The same Stepper Motor technology is used for the two turntables.

The high speed one at the end of the sector plate, and the scale speed on by the station throat.

 

As a matter of interest, Geoff who does all the electronic stuff on Lime Street, and his friend Frank have just brought a turnatble drive mechanism to market.

Exactly the same technology as used on Lime Street, but "ready to run".

Just build it into your layout, put a turntable on top and away you go.

They have a stand at Guildex, the Gauge 0 Guild show in a couple of weeks. (GF Controls)

 

Its possible to get to Blackburn's show at the Hyndburn Leisure Centre and visit Telford on the other day of the weekend, Sep 3rd & 4th.

Unless like Mick, you're exhibiting at the Blackburn Show, as also is John Holden. He's on a demo stand.

 

See you all there.

 

Steve.

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Rob and I have spent the day with John again.

In addition to one full "run-through" of the operation sequence, we have been checking out what has to be achieved on the layout before we take it to Utrecht at the end of October.

 

The main sub-projects concerned are:

 

1) The Satation Roof.

 

Today Rob returned the last of the Pillars which support the roof itself. These have been individually painted and weathered.

post-3984-0-93154800-1314819693_thumb.jpg

 

post-3984-0-06432100-1314823516_thumb.jpg

 

They are now ready for Les to fix in place, using a jig he's made to ensure they are correctly aligned.

He can then accurately measure the footprint of the support points for the 40 Bow String girders, after which these can be assembled! The first such Bow String girder is shown to ineft rear of the above photo.

 

2) The Semaphore Signals.

 

I recently completed the final signal, which will be installed on Platforms 9 & 10.

 

post-3984-0-50444000-1314820381_thumb.jpg

 

We've checked its location carefully to determine where the servos can be mounted to operate it.

(There's so much gear underneath the Baseboards)

 

Geoff, the electronics wizard is currently building the control units for the signalling system.

In addition to the servo controllers, which are a 16-servo version of his two-servo commercial units, he has to build the interface with the route setting system, so that when a route is set, the correct signals are cleared.

Remember there are about 420 feasible individual routes on the layout.

 

All the information about each route is held in a large "truth table", which includes data such as:

 

From position; To position, identity of each point along the route, and its required position - Normal or Switched; Direction of movement (inbound Down, outbound Up), which signal(s) should be cleared. etc.

 

John has to determine where all this new hardware will be installed, and how it will integrate into the wiring system and data network which links all the processors together.

 

3) Scenic developments.

 

John is currently detailing the roadways, with improved top surfaces, pavings, coping stones etc. etc.

After next weeks operating session - on Tuesday, and Les's measuring excercise, the layout can be dismantled so that a lot of basic work can be done on the ground cover by Rob and John.

Rob is also doing some more Homework on the background/skyscape and weathering one or two locos.

 

I know Les is busy on the Hotel CAD design, but that will show results post-Utrecht.

 

The remaining urgent activity for us all is to get some operating hours in.

 

I've taken more photos today, which I'll post when I have some more time.

Its our Club Show - Blackburn - this weekend!

 

Steve.

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Liking the use of moving vehicles on the large platform! This has to be the next big thing in exhibition layouts in my opinion.

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Liking the use of moving vehicles on the large platform! This has to be the next big thing in exhibition layouts in my opinion.

 

 

The car/bus/taxi system has several routes and is integrated with the trams which run along Lime Street.

The routes include Lime Street, up the road parallel to the platforms (whose name escapes me), over the bridges and round the buildings as well as along the platforms, with stopping places for passenger pick-up on the arrival platforms, and set-down on departure platforms.

 

post-3984-0-50799100-1314903522_thumb.jpg

 

If there's quiet moment operationally in the Station, there should always be something interesting to see.

 

Steve.

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It can go wrong though, I was watching at one show and a van/taxi (can't remember which) took a 'wrong turn' and almost went over the edge, luckily it hit the front edge board.

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It can go wrong though, I was watching at one show and a van/taxi (can't remember which) took a 'wrong turn' and almost went over the edge, luckily it hit the front edge board.

 

 

Really?

 

Ask about the bus and the missing section of bridge next time you see the layout!

 

Steve.

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Here are a few "spotters" shots from Wednesday's running session:

 

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A couple of locos at rest on the "buffers". (We're still short of some good LNWR hydraulic buffers!)

 

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Rob looks a bit surprised as a Black 5 gets the Down Fast road into Siding D.

 

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The Black 5 from the previous shot climbs through the cutting with a Parcels train on the Up Fast line as a sister loco waits at the gantry and the Down Slow.

 

Steve.

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At long last we have finally fitted the roof support columns to the platforms. Each column was supported in a jig to ensure it was perpendicular to the platform in two planes.

 

post-8613-0-03875600-1315496328.jpg

 

And here I am fitting the final column.

 

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The row of columns on the North side of the platforms

 

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The central row of double columns

 

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The columns at the South side of the platforms

 

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and finally a close up of a triple set of columns, complete with dust, rust and pigeon muck (00 scale pigeons are now on order)

 

post-8613-0-90068200-1315496409.jpg

Edited by Les Green
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The next stage is to make the station roof. The roof trusses sit on small trays on the columns. This allows the roof to move 5mm in any direction to allow for baseboard movement or temperature effects. The 3D drawing gives the theoretical position of all the trusses but I needed to know the actual positions of each tray rather than use the drawing. The trays will not be in their correct position if the column is not exactly vertical or the column is rotated.

The roof will bein eight sections and a template was made for each section.

 

The eight templates with tray positions and trusses marked

 

post-8613-0-20552900-1315497231.jpg

 

The support pieces were placed on the platforms. These gave the correct height for the templates and prevented them from sagging under weight.

 

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and the templates placed in position on their supports

 

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Holes were drilled at the tray centre positions with a small tool that fitted to the rear of each tray.

 

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About 32 holes had to be drilled in the eight templates.

 

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Some holes being difficult to reach!!!

 

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Having drilled the holes in the template the roof trusses can be made to the correct spans and the roof built up on the template. But that is another story.

 

The maximum error of actual tray location compared to theoretical position was about 5mm. Most were within 2mm.

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I'm looking forward to seeing some videos.................puhleeze!

 

Best, Pete.

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This is as mad as Manchester Central! Keep it up - we need more of this!

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This is as mad as Manchester Central! Keep it up - we need more of this!

 

Yeah, but don't you just love mad. It's projects like this one and Manchester Central, Birmingham New Street, Peterborough North and one or two other real locations and lifetime projects which make accessing this site worthwhile!

 

Mike

Edited by mikemeg
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The fiddle yard alone is a work of art. At the heart of it is a microprocessor controlled servo motor operated traverser. (That's not easy to type, never mind say..........................)

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

And here is the control panel for the fiddle yard.

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Like the panel which controls the station end of the layout, it is operated by Entry/Exit commands.

 

The panel here is set to receive a train on the Up Slow line, and to take it onto Road 5 of the Sector Plate.

This is all indicated by the string of yellow LEDs on the track diagram.

You can also see the view of the Station Throat in the small video monitor.

This is shown automatically as the route is set.

You see a diffderent view depanding on which Platform the departing train is to leave from.

This is all controlled by the Route Setting computer at the Station control panel, and is presented to the Station operators in a similar manner.

In the upper left of the panel you can see the repeaters for the signal aspects.

Once these have cleared you can drive the train from the station to the sector plate.

As the train progresses up the cutting the view in the monitor automatically changes to one from the Signal Box, so you can keep an eye on progress.

 

The buttons on the top right of the panel then allow you to select from various camera positions as you dispose of the train.

The first will be the view vertically down on the uncouplers (Kaydees), then of the turntable to ensure no overrun etc.

Finally there are several views down the hidden sidings (10 in number) which are each long enough to hold two full length trains.

 

You can see the whole trackplan on the panel, with 10 hidden sidings, two Up, two Down roads and two headshunts for loco stabling at the left hand side.

The 5 roads of the Sector Plate are aligned with any of these by simply pressing the associated two buttons in sequence.

The coloured buttons on the Up and Down tracks link the computer for the Fiddle Yard with that for the Station Panel, allowing control to be passed between the panels as required.

 

I hope at some stage to take some proper video of the operation of the Sector Plate and post it on U-Tube, with links here on RMweb.

 

Steve.

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Even the cabinet looks like a work of art!

 

Completely lost for words now but not before I award you the Five Humphreys Award for outstanding excellence in complete madness! I would award ten but the forum rules are a maximum of ten smilies per post.

 

:good: :good: :good: :good: :good:

 

Really liking this.

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looks great with the weathered stancions, almost looks eery as if that is what it would have looked like had the roof been removed in real life.

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At long last we have finally fitted the roof support columns to the platforms. Each column was supported in a jig to ensure it was perpendicular to the platform in two planes.

.......

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_09_2011/post-8613-0-69670200-1315496378.jpg

The columns at the South side of the platforms

 

.......

 

Hi, Les

 

I presume that the first three sets of columns were still to checked for vertical alignment

 

Fascinating watching your build of this iconic station - Looking forward to the roof construction

 

Give my praise for this great venture to all involved

 

Cheers

 

Ron

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Hi, Les

 

I presume that the first three sets of columns were still to checked for vertical alignment

 

 

Which three columns are you referring to. Some of the photos show a lot of camera perspective distortion. The actual columns on the model all look to be near enough vertical.

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Which three columns are you referring to. Some of the photos show a lot of camera perspective distortion. The actual columns on the model all look to be near enough vertical.

Hi, Les

The three column sets nearest the camera look decidely out of the vertical -

post-10633-0-07262500-1315847391.png

 

I am sure that it is not just distortion by the camera. As I said it may be the photo was taken before all the alignment checks were carried out

Cheers

Ron

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I was about to say 10mm less than the outside dimensions, then I realised you meant the shed and not the hotel model! The shed internals are 5m x 22.5m!!

 

To refer to that as a shed does it a severe injustice. What I can see from my upstairs window would easily classify as a bungalow.

 

ArthurK

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Hi, Les

 

The three column sets nearest the camera look decidely out of the vertical -

 

I am sure that it is not just distortion by the camera. As I said it may be the photo was taken before all the alignment checks were carried out

 

Cheers

 

Ron

 

We will check this out when we can. The baseboards have now been taken down to work on the electrical stuff underneath.

Edited by Les Green

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