Kernow Adams O2

[barrymx5]

I already had 2 SR O2s, one olive and the other black, both with PP equipment, and have just last month purchased a third from Kernow, an Early BR model without PP at £99. Not a bad price. 
I am tempted to try and take the PP equipment off one of the SR locos and fit to the BR one to run with my Hornby Maunsell 2 coach PP set. Has any one tried this or have any tips? Would removing the body be necessary? Obviously I don't want to ruin 2 bodies!

Anyone know where BR O2s operated Pull Push services or am I going to have to claim it is a stand in for a failed M7. 

Incidentally  my O2s. run very nicely at slow speed with DCC decoders easily fitted in the smokebox.  2 Maunsell PP coaches on a 1:50 slope is about the pulling limit - but have to be smokebox first. The BR one was delivered with back to backs too close but is fine now with the  wheels eased out. 
A great model and can't wait for the LSWR Roadvan!

 

[PJT]

9 hours ago, barrymx5 said:

I am tempted to try and take the PP equipment off one of the SR locos and fit to the BR one to run with my Hornby Maunsell 2 coach PP set. Has any one tried this or have any tips? Would removing the body be necessary? Obviously I don't want to ruin 2 bodies!

 

I've not tried to swap the gear from one loco to another, so I can't help with advice on that.  However, there's a point of detail which, depending on how pedantic you want to be, might complicate your decision.  On mainland O2s, the pull-push versions had cab doors while the non pull push ones didn't (whereas all Isle of Wight O2s had cab doors).  This seemed to be a very rigid rule; for instance, when a mainland loco lost its pull push equipment, it also lost the cab doors. 

 

I recently also took advantage of Kernow's offer to get a non-PP 30225 (which in real life lost its equipment and its doors in later SR days to a loco being prepared for shipping to the island for Ventnor West branch use).  It's actually incorrect, as is your 30193, because it still has doors (all of the Kernow O2s have doors).  It's not an error I'd write an enraged letter to the Daily Telegraph about and it's not high up on my 'to do' list either, but one day I shall remove the doors from my 30225, which will probably also involve making new cab doorway handrails since they're all part of the same moulding.

 

Please excuse me adding a further twist to your dilemna!

 

Pete T.

[barrymx5]

12 hours ago, PJT said:

Please excuse me adding a further twist to your dilemna!

 

Pete T.

Pete please do not apologise. Very useful indeed. 
 

regards

 

Barry

 

[Graham_Muz]

The cab doors are quite easy to carefully remove with sharp scalpel  using the edge of the handrail as a guide. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Graham_Muz

[barrymx5]

Thanks Graham. Looks good. 

[PJT]

On 10/05/2020 at 23:13, barrymx5 said:

Incidentally  my O2s. run very nicely at slow speed with DCC decoders easily fitted in the smokebox.

 

I meant to but then forgot to mention the running qualities in my previous post.  I now have two mainland O2s and five island ones (before anyone says that's greedy, I confess that I have a serious thing about the IoW railways and the five island locos are individually detailed as my favourites from the 1960s fleet).  Having run in each one for an hour or more each way, the quality of running is very, very good. 

 

I realise the 'all driving wheel axles geared and cosmetic sloppy coupling rods' method is not to everyone's taste and has clearly created a lot of frustration and derision with one or two other models that feature it, but in my experience with the Kernow O2 it seems to work just fine.  As the very satisfied owner of seven O2s, if there were serious issues I think the odds are I'd have personally come across them by now. 

 

Pete T.

 

[Ventnor]

On 11/05/2020 at 18:03, PJT said:

 

I've not tried to swap the gear from one loco to another, so I can't help with advice on that.  However, there's a point of detail which, depending on how pedantic you want to be, might complicate your decision.  On mainland O2s, the pull-push versions had cab doors while the non pull push ones didn't (whereas all Isle of Wight O2s had cab doors).  This seemed to be a very rigid rule; for instance, when a mainland loco lost its pull push equipment, it also lost the cab doors. 

 

I recently also took advantage of Kernow's offer to get a non-PP 30225 (which in real life lost its equipment and its doors in later SR days to a loco being prepared for shipping to the island for Ventnor West branch use).  It's actually incorrect, as is your 30193, because it still has doors (all of the Kernow O2s have doors).  It's not an error I'd write an enraged letter to the Daily Telegraph about and it's not high up on my 'to do' list either, but one day I shall remove the doors from my 30225, which will probably also involve making new cab doorway handrails since they're all part of the same moulding.

 

Please excuse me adding a further twist to your dilemna!

 

Pete T.

Hello PJT
 

30225 with cab doors in its later BR days. I don’t think the rule was ridged about removing cab doors when PP equipment was removed. Hopefully this will mean you won’t have to undertake any surgery on your model!!
 

Kind regards

 

Andy.

[PJT]

1 hour ago, Ventnor said:

Hello PJT
 

30225 with cab doors in its later BR days. I don’t think the rule was ridged about removing cab doors when PP equipment was removed. Hopefully this will mean you won’t have to undertake any surgery on your model!!

 

Morning Andy,

 

I read your post this morning with a big smile on my face; the vast knowledge available on RMweb and the ability of its members to successfully - and sometimes conclusively - debunk statements is a wonderful thing.  Thank you for that.  I'm sure Barry will appreciate it too.  I've just flicked through the O2 chapter in Badley's book on the Adams locomotives and I can't see any mention of rules about cab door removal there; I've yet to look in several other books I have that detail the lives of the O2s.  I wonder where the statement came from originally?  Not that it matters too much since you've disproved it anyway, but I'd feel a bit better if I could show myself it had come from a trusted source!  It's certainly something I've always understood to be true, one of the many little quirks of the class and I know I'm far from alone in believing and quoting it. 

 

My apologies to Chris at Kernow, if he reads this thread, for incorrectly saying his model was incorrect!

 

Whatever, your photo proves yet again the necessity of having photos of the loco from the right period to hand when you're making a model, doesn't it?  Do you know where your photo of 30225 was taken?  It looks like it could be at Eastleigh, after she had returned from Plymouth.

 

I think I'll go back to making sweeping statements about Island O2s - I know I'm on safer ground there!

 

Pete T.

 

[Ventnor]

3 hours ago, PJT said:

 

Morning Andy,

 

I read your post this morning with a big smile on my face; the vast knowledge available on RMweb and the ability of its members to successfully - and sometimes conclusively - debunk statements is a wonderful thing.  Thank you for that.  I'm sure Barry will appreciate it too.  I've just flicked through the O2 chapter in Badley's book on the Adams locomotives and I can't see any mention of rules about cab door removal there; I've yet to look in several other books I have that detail the lives of the O2s.  I wonder where the statement came from originally?  Not that it matters too much since you've disproved it anyway, but I'd feel a bit better if I could show myself it had come from a trusted source!  It's certainly something I've always understood to be true, one of the many little quirks of the class and I know I'm far from alone in believing and quoting it. 

 

My apologies to Chris at Kernow, if he reads this thread, for incorrectly saying his model was incorrect!

 

Whatever, your photo proves yet again the necessity of having photos of the loco from the right period to hand when you're making a model, doesn't it?  Do you know where your photo of 30225 was taken?  It looks like it could be at Eastleigh, after she had returned from Plymouth.

 

I think I'll go back to making sweeping statements about Island O2s - I know I'm on safer ground there!

 

Pete T.

 

Pete

 

Glad to hear I was of help. Like you I am more comfortable with the Island O2s, you may of noticed my “avatar” name, not just a location but locomotive!! Don’t know why it’s a favourite. Always had a love of the Island lines since my first visit in the early 80s as a boy, many visits since to walk the closed lines and of course ride the remains of the Cowes line. I’m now in Australia, in fact one of the last holidays I had before leaving blighty was to the Island. My partner at the time is now my wife and is Aussie, what she must have thought I don’t know but she thoroughly enjoyed the “hiking” and me standing staring at abandoned bridges and repurposed station buildings!! My father made two visits in steam days as a young lad and took some photos in ‘64 and ‘65. Unfortunately I don’t have any here in Oz. 
 

Anyway, the photo of 30225 was just from a quick web search after I saw your post. To me it looks like a scrap road at Eastleigh or a temporary “storage” road post withdrawal. 

However; I have a number of books with shots of 30225 in BR days showing her with cab doors, I can dig through them and give you the title, author and page numbers if you like? 
 

One of my favourite SR mainland branches is the Callington branch. As you probably know, 30225 was a regular before permanently replaced by Ivatt tanks. If you’ve never done it I can recommend a visit to this area, the views from the old station site at Chillsworthy are quite stunning on a clear day (or were in 2000). 
 

After the Kernow / DJM model was announced I did a bit of research into the mainland 02s. It would appear that it wasn’t only 30225 that kept its cab doors after removal of PP equipment. Again I’d have to revisit my sources to give you the number(s) of the other locos. You are quite right saying that it appears that only PP fitted and Island 02s received doors. Island allocated Terriers in SR days also received them (caveat; ALL may not have). In short, I don’t believe any such rule existed regarding removing cab doors post PP removal!!

 

Kind regards

 

Andy.

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Ventnor
Missing words!

[PJT]

1 hour ago, Ventnor said:

Always had a love of the Island lines since my first visit in the early 80s as a boy, many visits since to walk the closed lines and of course ride the remains of the Cowes line.

 

Andy,

 

If you make it over here again and you want to go back to the island, I'd be happy for you to pick my brain about what's changed and revisiting the island's former railways.  Pam and I live on the mainland, but still conveniently close enough to take our bikes over on the car ferries (expensive crossing with cars, very cheap with bikes!) for day trips, often using the former railways that are now cycle paths.  We also stay over there pretty frequently too.  You might know you can now cycle right the way across the island from Cowes to Sandown, exclusively using railway cycle paths except for Newport town centre (and even that bit's on traffic-free paths now).  Other shorter stretches of railway cycle path have been created in different parts of the island, too.  We both love the scenery and the seafood, though I'll admit I get more out of the old railway infrastructure than Pam probably does.

 

Never explored the Callington branch, though again we do cycle large chunks of the rest of the Southern's Withered Arm, every time we holiday in Devon and Cornwall (cue wistful reminiscences, given the current epidemic restrictions here).  I'll make a point of exploring what's left of the branch when we're next down there.

 

2 hours ago, Ventnor said:

Anyway, the photo of 30225 was just from a quick web search after I saw your post. To me it looks like a scrap road at Eastleigh or a temporary “storage” road post withdrawal.

That's what it looks like to me, too.  Thanks, but don't take up your time searching out other photos of ex-pull-push O2s retaining their doors just for my benefit - the job of removing the doors from my 30225 is struck off the 'To Do' list already!

 

Pete T.

 

[barrymx5]

Thank you! You have made me a happy man. Not a bad day altogether. Our trip to Spain cancelled I ordered a case of Rioja  which arrived today. Oh and the local nursery delivered the geraniums for the hanging baskets. So I can spend the time I would have spent hacking the doors out of 30225 planting the hanging baskets whilst sipping Rioja! 

[PJT]

6 minutes ago, barrymx5 said:

So I can spend the time I would have spent hacking the doors out of 30225 planting the hanging baskets whilst sipping Rioja! 

 

Yup.  All's well that ends well.  Don't you get carried away with the watering, will you?  Hic!

 

Lovely little models though, as were the Kernow Beattie Well Tanks before them.  Not that I'm biased or anything.

 

Have a good one,

 

Pete T.

 

[barrymx5]

40 minutes ago, PJT said:

 

Lovely little models though, as were the Kernow Beattie Well Tanks before them.  Not that I'm biased or anything.

 

Have a good one,

 

Pete T.

 

Thanks Pete. Yes one of my favourites too.  I see from latest Model Rail the Well Tank was second most voted for OO steam loco of the decade. SR did very well  Terrier first in O gauge and Merchant Navy  first in N.  

[Ventnor]

12 hours ago, PJT said:

 

Andy,

 

If you make it over here again and you want to go back to the island, I'd be happy for you to pick my brain about what's changed and revisiting the island's former railways.  Pam and I live on the mainland, but still conveniently close enough to take our bikes over on the car ferries (expensive crossing with cars, very cheap with bikes!) for day trips, often using the former railways that are now cycle paths.  We also stay over there pretty frequently too.  You might know you can now cycle right the way across the island from Cowes to Sandown, exclusively using railway cycle paths except for Newport town centre (and even that bit's on traffic-free paths now).  Other shorter stretches of railway cycle path have been created in different parts of the island, too.  We both love the scenery and the seafood, though I'll admit I get more out of the old railway infrastructure than Pam probably does.

 

Never explored the Callington branch, though again we do cycle large chunks of the rest of the Southern's Withered Arm, every time we holiday in Devon and Cornwall (cue wistful reminiscences, given the current epidemic restrictions here).  I'll make a point of exploring what's left of the branch when we're next down there.

 

That's what it looks like to me, too.  Thanks, but don't take up your time searching out other photos of ex-pull-push O2s retaining their doors just for my benefit - the job of removing the doors from my 30225 is struck off the 'To Do' list already!

 

Pete T.

 

Pete

 

Again, happy to help. Until the advent of COVID-19 we had planned a 5 week holiday to the UK in mid-June this year. My parents retired from London to Paignton so it was to be a stay in London to see the sights and museums (for the kids), some time spent in Paignton as a base to explore Devon and a week staying in Padstow as a base to explore North Cornwall. Return was via Bath and London again. we seem to have been able to re-book similar dates next year but pardon the pun; flights are still up in the air!! We've also still lost a bit of money on deposits etc. 

 

Anyway; thanks for the offer re: the IoW, unfortunately we won't make it this trip (next year). If I happen to come across photos of the other ex-PP fitted 02s with doors I'll let you know but won't go looking for them; saying that I'm now curious myself!!  As you're no doubt aware, mainland 02s and withdrawn G6s were cannibalised to keep the Island 02s serviceable. I seem to recall, I think in one of the Oakwood Press histories on the Island lines, that no new boilers, fireboxes, frames or cylinders had been made for the 02 class since 1936 (or some 1930s date anyway). If true, Just goes to show what efforts went into keeping the Island locomotives going that lasted into 1966 and the two that lasted into '67. Again, fascinating!!

 

Happy modelling!!

 

Andy.

[JohnR]

I got an O2 for christmas, and recently started running it properly on my layout and found that it seems to be a very poor runner - it cant pull a single coach and two vans out of the station. It doesnt seem to be a fault with the loco, applying current directly to the wheels has them turning fine.

 

From reading parts of the thread, it seems that the back-to-back may need adjusting. What is the easiest way to do this, and to what distance?

 

How can I add some weight to the loco? I've tried to remove the loco body, but the screws in the bunker seem to be smaller than my smallest screwdriver! What size are they, and where is best to add some weight?

[Nile]

The body isn't designed to come off, at least not easily. The easiest way to add some weight is to put some lead inside the smokebox, being careful not to short circuit the DCC socket in there. There may not be room if you've fitted a chip in there.

[JSpencer]

22 hours ago, JohnR said:

I got an O2 for christmas, and recently started running it properly on my layout and found that it seems to be a very poor runner - it cant pull a single coach and two vans out of the station. It doesnt seem to be a fault with the loco, applying current directly to the wheels has them turning fine.

 

From reading parts of the thread, it seems that the back-to-back may need adjusting. What is the easiest way to do this, and to what distance?

 

How can I add some weight to the loco? I've tried to remove the loco body, but the screws in the bunker seem to be smaller than my smallest screwdriver! What size are they, and where is best to add some weight?

 

My pair will each drag around 4 modern RTR coaches easily. Despite being overall smaller and lighter than a Hornby H (and having a tiny motor), they out perform Hornby's H class. This is due to the weight being centred thankfully over the driving wheels. Both of mine are still in out of the box condition.

Not sure why yours under performs. Is your rolling stock RTR or kits with possibly stiff bearings (compared to modern RTR)? Was it modified with extra weight that moved the centre of weight towards the rear (for example the bunker is empty, extra weight there would be detrimental in moving the centre of gravity away from the drivers which would badly affect running too)?

[JohnR]

2 hours ago, JSpencer said:

 

My pair will each drag around 4 modern RTR coaches easily. Despite being overall smaller and lighter than a Hornby H (and having a tiny motor), they out perform Hornby's H class. This is due to the weight being centred thankfully over the driving wheels. Both of mine are still in out of the box condition.

Not sure why yours under performs. Is your rolling stock RTR or kits with possibly stiff bearings (compared to modern RTR)? Was it modified with extra weight that moved the centre of weight towards the rear (for example the bunker is empty, extra weight there would be detrimental in moving the centre of gravity away from the drivers which would badly affect running too)?

 

The stock is RTR Hornby -  there is no weight in the bunker - just the two very small screws!

[JSpencer]

10 hours ago, JohnR said:

 

The stock is RTR Hornby -  there is no weight in the bunker - just the two very small screws!

Ok, so next question, when the loco fails to pull one coach and 2 wagons, are the wheels spinning on track or not turning at all?

[phil-b259]

11 hours ago, JohnR said:

 

The stock is RTR Hornby -  there is no weight in the bunker - just the two very small screws!

which stock exactly - the rebuilt LSWR coaches from Hornby had wheels that weren’t exactly free running (for the first set of releases at any rate) and these could well cause problems with light locos.

[JohnR]

4 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

which stock exactly - the rebuilt LSWR coaches from Hornby had wheels that weren’t exactly free running (for the first set of releases at any rate) and these could well cause problems with light locos.

 

Guilty as charged! Coach is an ex-LSW brake third. Just never noticed it before, as my larger tanks seem to cope reasonable well with them. And one of the vans is a Hornby Van C which seems to have stiff wheels. 

[Oldddudders]

More recent batches of the ex-LSWR rebuilds have had better running qualities, but none approaches the silky motion of the Maunsells. OTOH the Vans C have a sort of axle tube which limits free-rolling, and I like that for holding attached Maunsells if there is the slightest hint of a slope. 

[JohnR]

Maybe some of us like the free rolling!

 

On the ex-LSWR stock, its not clear what is causing it - is there a known fix?

 

On the Van C, I've tried lubrication the axle tube, but to no avail.

[woodenhead]

25 minutes ago, JohnR said:

Maybe some of us like the free rolling!

 

On the ex-LSWR stock, its not clear what is causing it - is there a known fix?

 

The brakes - literally.

 

I removed them on one set and they ceased to be sticky - I didn't do my other rake.

[Jack P]

If you pop the bogies off and use some gentle force, you can move the brakes away from the wheels. I've found on many of the Ex-LSWR coaches this is an extremely common issue, pretty much all of them benefit from some slight tweaking.