Kernow Adams O2

[2ManySpams]

Looking forward to this and the gate stock progressing. Must work out which of the 6 are best for those based at Wadebridge 30199 & 30200. (obviously none of the IoW variants). From memory I don't recall them being pull push fitted so 30193 or 30225?

[The Stationmaster]

Looking very nice but the Westinghouse pump looks to be rather large and is also very high - looking through various pics and video the majority of pumps seem to have been smaller and/or lower mounted. But I have no doubt at all that Chris and his helpers will get it right.

[10800]

Looking very nice but the Westinghouse pump looks to be rather large and is also very high

 

It looks about right for the preserved Calbourne photo, but that on 30182 definitely looks smaller and lower. Are they going to be different for different versions?

[Graham_Muz]

Indeed please remember that this is very first off CAD based on the scanning of Calbourne and they do not yet reflect the other varients yet.

[The Stationmaster]

It looks about right for the preserved Calbourne photo, but that on 30182 definitely looks smaller and lower. Are they going to be different for different versions?

 

 

Looking at pics and video there seems to have been quite a lot of variation in height of the pump on IoW engines - on W32 the top of the upper cylinder was level with the boiler handrail while on a couple of others it was higher being between the level of the handrail and the bottom flange of the chimney casting. This makes me wonder if the pump on 'Calbourne' is an original off an IoW engine or if it has come from elsewhere and is larger and slightly taller?

[Guest Belgian]

Nice chimney!

 

I've tried to pre-order the new variant on the Kernow web page but it seems to want to treat it as a new customer order and take payment now and if I hit one of the options it will cancel all my previous orders (for pull-push stock and a Hampshire unit). There doesn't seem to be any link to make this comment to Kernow so I am doing it here in the hope that they read RMweb. (Sorry Mods if I've broken the rules).

 

JE

[10800]

I've tried to pre-order the new variant on the Kernow web page but it seems to want to treat it as a new customer order and take payment now and if I hit one of the options it will cancel all my previous orders (for pull-push stock and a Hampshire unit). There doesn't seem to be any link to make this comment to Kernow so I am doing it here in the hope that they read RMweb. (Sorry Mods if I've broken the rules).

 

Why don't you phone them? They are quite happy to take/change/discuss pre-orders over the phone.

[Guest Belgian]

Why don't you phone them? They are quite happy to take/change/discuss pre-orders over the phone.

Duh! Why didn't I think of that? I was so fed up going round and round on the website I gave up!

 

Ta.

 

JE

[RussellD]

Update on progress with this model on website with CAD pictures posted and one extra model announced.

 

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/index.html?action=23

[Graham_Muz]

Ahh yes forgot this thread, it's also on my blog here and a separate RMweb thred here!

 

 

ADMIN - two topics now merged

Edited July 10, 2012 by Mod6

[tender]

From the pictures shown on the kernow site it appears that

K2105 Dapol 0-4-4 Class O2 Steam Locomotive number 225 in Southern Black livery

has the same equipment on the left side (viewed from behind) as

K2103 Dapol 0-4-4 Class O2 Steam Locomotive number 30182 in BR Black livery with early emblem and push-pull equipment.

 

Is this the Push/pull equipment and if so does this mean that K2105 (225 in Southern black) will also have push-pull equipment?

[The Stationmaster]

From the pictures shown on the kernow site it appears that

K2105 Dapol 0-4-4 Class O2 Steam Locomotive number 225 in Southern Black livery

has the same equipment on the left side (viewed from behind) as

K2103 Dapol 0-4-4 Class O2 Steam Locomotive number 30182 in BR Black livery with early emblem and push-pull equipment.

 

Is this the Push/pull equipment and if so does this mean that K2105 (225 in Southern black) will also have push-pull equipment?

 

Post No.3 in this thread would seem to possibly answer that question http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/56597-adams-o2/

[G-BOAF]

First Impressions - WOW!

 

Second impressions - the dome looks a little too thin or tall... What do others think?

Similarly, the flange round the safety valve cover seems a bit wide/extends too far down the boiler (compared to the pictures of Calbourne)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/W24Calbourne1.JPG

 

Indeed, the safety valve flange should finish 'higher up' the boiler than the dome flange. The CAD have their relative size/positions reversed. This MAY be part of the dome problem

 

Doubtless, as with the BWT scrutiny will reveal further discrepencies. Chimney seems good this time round.

Coal load will I presume change - it looks like a cobble driveway atm!

 

Please take my dome/safety valve comments as constructive criticism for what seems to yet again be pushing the bounds of RTR steam locos

 

Alpha Foxtrot

[mvrnut]

Roll on 2013 ! I hope these sell really well and then Kernow may possibly ( please ) do one in Southern Railway lined olive green.

All the best to Kernow and Dapol for these Southern 00 models.

 

Chris

[Gwiwer]

Note to self - must start work on the new layout for which the O2 and gate stock are intended

 

For those interested in the North Cornwall lines 30193 reached Wadebridge; several photos exist of it in the area in block BRITISH RAILWAYS livery. 30199 and 30200 appear to have been rather camera-shy but a little research has located a photo of 30199 in early logo and one of 30200 in late-logo livery. 30203 in early logo adorns the cover of the standard "Illustrated History" reference work. Others of the class were regulars in the Plymouth area with daily duties to Callington.

 

Good to see the progress in terms of first CAD-CAMs. That is a sure-fire sign that things are moving and with the reputation Kernow has built for themselves I have every confidence in the tweaks resulting in outstanding finished products and still - despite a significant but unavoidable price rise - very good value for money. One is already on order with a second under active consideration.

[Jon Fitness]

Will there be a Drummond boiler option so that the likes of say, IOW's 22 Brading and 31 Chale can be represented ?

Jon F

[Rugd1022]

Waiting for some photos to load up elsewhere on the forum so I've dug out a few books to look for some appropriate O2 pics... (not that I'm the slightest bit distracted by the prospect of another pretty Kernow special you understand... ahem).

 

Maurice Dart's ''West Contry Engine Sheds'' (Ian Allan) has photos of :

 

30192 at Plymouth Friary Shed c1959 with BR late crest,

 

30183 on Callington Shed in June 1961 with BR early crest.

 

Peter Gray's ''Steam In Cornwall'' (Ian Allan) has :

 

Three shots of 30225 with BR late crest on the Callington line on 15th April 1961,

 

30200 at Bodmin North with BR late crest on 10th September 1960, the caption states that by this time Wadebridge's O2s had been replaced by a pair of WR Panniers and that 30200 had possibly been brought out of store to work this service.

 

Maurice Dart's ''The Last Days Of Steam In Devon'' (Alan Sutton) has :

 

30199 at Exmouth Jcn Shed with BR early crest on 10th February 1957.

 

Maurice's ''The Last Days Of Steam In Plymouth & Cornwall'' (Alan Sutton) has :

 

30183 at Plymouth Friary Shed with BR early crest on 16th April 1954 which shows a good view of the Westinghouse pump and the two large cylinders mounted either side of the smokebox,

 

30225 with BR early crest in two undated views at St.Budeaux and Bere Alston,

 

30200 at Bodmin General with BR early crest on 22nd June 1956,

 

30236 at Bodmin North with BR early crest on 26th June 1956

 

[Gwiwer]

Also now located photo of 30236 at Wadebridge dated 1958 in early logo. I agree that by 1960 the O2s had left Wadebridge.

 

Chris Tooth in "Illustrated History" (the Irwell Press book after Wroe) states "There was always a couple of O2s stationed at Wadebridge, heavily employed on the Bodmin serviecs, until their demise in the 1950s" Given that the Bodmin trains actually outlasted those via Camelford we may assume the "demise" is referring to the O2 class at Wadebridge and not the Bodmin workings which went over to WR motive power - first with tanks then with class 22 power on freights at least.

[roundhouse]

The 02's also got to Appledore.

 

 

Well in my own little world they did!!

(A Wills kit which did make up nicely with a bit of work but really looking forward to the Kenrow one).

Edited July 11, 2012 by roundhouse

[G-BOAF]

OK, lets take as a starting hypothesis that the CAD is wrong. We know from the Dapol Western, that the CAD designers havea tendency to produce what they 'think' is right, rather than what actually is right (e.g. depicting prottoype off-centre roof grills as centered)

Is there any photographic evidence for large pumps? All the evidence thus presented is for smaller pumps than the CAD shows.

 

A further IOW example

http://www.flickr.co...els/6785015500/

 

Nice side profile here

http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/

 

As such, the hypothesis that the CAD is wrong appears to stand. Further backed up by the fact that one could presume a larger pump would have detailed differnces to the samller one; there are none, the CAD depicts the pump 100% correctly, just much larger.

 

Happy to be disproven when the photographic evidence emerges to substantiate a larger pump...!

Edited July 11, 2012 by G-BOAF

[Oldddudders]

OK, lets take as a starting hypothesis that the CAD is wrong.

Why do we need a "starting hypothesis"? I'd rather assume that Kernow and their advisers and suppliers know what they are doing, and will produce models that some of us will be happy to buy. My glass is always at least half-full - how about yours?

[Godfrey Glyn]

I don't think the CAD is wrong for Calbourne as she is now. It may not be the kit that was attached when they were actually in service.

Godfrey

[G-BOAF]

Why do we need a "starting hypothesis"? I'd rather assume that Kernow and their advisers and suppliers know what they are doing, and will produce models that some of us will be happy to buy. My glass is always at least half-full - how about yours?

 

I don't doubt they've done their work, they certainly have. However as stated in my post above (with ref to the Western), getting things right in the UK doesn't equal things being got right in China. On the basis of this history, combined with a lack of pictorial evidence (from the 1960s) that its right, I'm assuming its wrong. Furthermore, it is certainly wrong for Calbourne as preserved. The pump is too tall, extends too far down, and appears to be too wide... net effect, it appears to be over scale.

 

I did state in my first post on the topic that my first impressions of the model were WOW.

As a scientist (in parts) I always start with a half empty glass to any analysis, based on existing behavior and evidence and wait for proof before it becomes half full!!!

 

 

This said, with two BWTs at sitting at home I have a strong a 'glass half full' for the O2 Project as a whole; I don't doubt they'll get it right in the end...

 

Hope this explains.

Edited July 11, 2012 by G-BOAF

[2ManySpams]

Also now located photo of 30236 at Wadebridge dated 1958 in early logo. I agree that by 1960 the O2s had left Wadebridge.

 

Chris Tooth in "Illustrated History" (the Irwell Press book after Wroe) states "There was always a couple of O2s stationed at Wadebridge, heavily employed on the Bodmin serviecs, until their demise in the 1950s" Given that the Bodmin trains actually outlasted those via Camelford we may assume the "demise" is referring to the O2 class at Wadebridge and not the Bodmin workings which went over to WR motive power - first with tanks then with class 22 power on freights at least.

 

Good grief I am being quoted now ;-). The statement reflected formal loco allocations and working notices. These showed that Bodmin services included many O2 trips until the late 50s (forget exact date at the moment). The Ivatt tanks appear to have seen the O2s away from Wadebridge, just as the WR tanks saw off the BWTs. Both of these replacements are commonly recorded in photos.

 

I for one welcome the Kernow O2 project as a chance to do the Bodmin services correctly in an earlier period.

 

[Guest Belgian]

With reference to the size of the air-pump shown in the CAD scans and those seen in photographs of the prototype, the impression I get is that the pumps for the pull-push locomotives used on the mainland are slightly smaller than those used for the braking system on the Isle of Wight.

 

Does anyone have definitive information as to whether the Southern used different sizes or, indeed, if Westinghouse made different versions with either different pressures or different throughputs? (As far as I am aware, the pull-push system was quite low pressure, but braking systems were relatively high pressure).

 

JE