N gauge quality issues - Farish & Dapol

[Rich.B]

Almost certainly the pickups - check that they are all actually making decent contact.

 

 

Hi.

 

Many Thanks for the advice, I'll certainly give that a try next time it plays up.

 

Regards,

 

Rich

[Tom J]

I have read this thread, and those specifically covering several products, with increasing despair.

 

Some of you may know me from about a decade ago, when I was quite active in various groups. I'm a professional railwayman, have been away from the hobby for a while, had a little boy (whom I don't see at the moment thanks to the family courts, but another story!) and am now trying to put something together to remind my wife and I of my son's childhood trips with us in South Devon, and in the hope he may one day return.

 

We have a 'tail chaser' layout which can be quickly deployed in the lounge, which my lad used to enjoy playing with.

 

Here's the list - all purchased new unless otherwise stated:

 

MML Cl. 170 (S/H) - No problems

 

57602 - Seemingly 'bombproof' and very strong but has a tendency to get dirty wheels very quickly.

 

67029 - Ran for maybe four hours including running-in, then PCB fault, got so hot one of the diodes unsoldered itself and fell off before my eyes. Because of our family circumstances, and because it was run-in when it arrived and then put away, I found out too late that it only had a 6 month warranty, which was up by the time I got round to sorting it out.

 

Farish 66 (s/h) - Got it home from Warley last year and found out the drivetrain on one bogie locks and forces the worm out of contact with the gears, so it goes nowhere.

 

67018 - Ran beautifully, then suddenly slowed dramatically before dying completely not long after running-in. Suspect the PCB again because the motor never ran hot and was silky smooth.

 

Cl.150 - Ran like a treat out of the box and still does.

 

70013 - It gets hot, it makes horrific noises, it's weak, and its' speed varies tremendously. Running-in and lubrications hasn't settled it. Factory-fit nameplates are a rare eyesore (Other Dapol locos have beautiful plates to be fitted by the owner!) and the cabside numerals are poor.

 

Farish Cl. 24 (I admit this isn't for my son, this is for the piece of Scotland I have always promised myself!) - Run-in only but ran beautifully from the word go.

 

FGW HST - Has run-in without mechanical incident but I am scared stiff of it going the way of the 67s! One of the headlights wasn't working out of the box but self-rectified after about 15 mins and hasn't failed since.

 

60163 'Tornado' - Driving wheels locking, even on straight track, getting worse with running, tender scrabbling for grip.

 

That's a 50% failure rate on the new stuff, (and of four dummy Dapol locos I've bought, one had glazing missing) and my wife (who is the main breadwinner) has told me she thinks I should give up on N gauge to avoid wasting time and money and being continually disappointed.

 

Particularly as far as the Dapol items are concerned, you have to be quick off the mark to get most of what they make at all, and in the case of the 'Brit' (I am a member of 70013's support crew in real life) I put my order in well before they hit the shelves to make sure I got one - and before Dapol inexplicably changed the tender to the early emblem, ie the one the loco only wore when new on the GEML, not what it wore when it became famous! This makes it especially disappointing.

 

So, I now have four brand new powered locomotives, purchase value £350+, which have failed either straight out of the box or within their first four hours of use. There is no decent 'N' gauge retailer in Central London these days, so they were all bought by mail order or miles from home. I don't have the time or resources to keep mailing engines here and there.

 

I don't have the time, tools or skill-set to re-engineer everything I buy either, and I have been prepared to put more of my money than I could really afford, where my mouth is, to support the manufacture of models which I would like to own, in good faith.

 

At this rate I will have spent a fortune on a collection of locos which are beautiful ornaments, but of no use. I would have been much happier, in the case of today's purchase, to have not had quite so much exquisite detail, and a chassis that just rolls... for the price, I might venture to suggest that to expect both was reasonable.

 

Given difficult family circumstances this is all the more of a shame, since my models are a way of remembering my little lad - and I am now wondering whether to get rid of the lot, and either go back to 4mm scale (which I have no space for a layout for) or jack it all in again...

 

Ideally, I would like to see my faith restored in the quality of the operation of N gauge products, which are after all such good-looking toys!

[Karhedron]

I am sorry to hear you are having such a rough time of it. According to Hattons (who sell in enough volumes to count as a reasonable average) the failure rate for N gauge products is around the 5% mark and not much different from 00. You seem to have been very unlucky to have ended up with so many lemons.

 

It may be worth contacting you retailer(s). They should refund the postage if you have to send stuff back to them.

[Dr Al]

Some fixes to get you going:

 

67029 - Ran for maybe four hours including running-in, then PCB fault, got so hot one of the diodes unsoldered itself and fell off before my eyes. Because of our family circumstances, and because it was run-in when it arrived and then put away, I found out too late that it only had a 6 month warranty, which was up by the time I got round to sorting it out.

 

67018 - Ran beautifully, then suddenly slowed dramatically before dying completely not long after running-in. Suspect the PCB again because the motor never ran hot and was silky smooth.

 

This is a common fault on the 66s - I found it was due to something conductive all over the PCB which looked like flux residue. Took a lot of headscratching to figure this out, but after cleaning off all the gunk on the PCB and ensuring that there is nothing bridging any of the paths.

 

After this mine has been faultless.

 

Farish 66 (s/h) - Got it home from Warley last year and found out the drivetrain on one bogie locks and forces the worm out of contact with the gears, so it goes nowhere.

 

Easy - this is a split gear. The first run of Farish 66s are prone to this. Easy easy fix of gear replacement (but don't run it until you get the gear fixed or risk damaging other gears in the tower).

 

70013 - It gets hot, it makes horrific noises, it's weak, and its' speed varies tremendously. Running-in and lubrications hasn't settled it. Factory-fit nameplates are a rare eyesore (Other Dapol locos have beautiful plates to be fitted by the owner!) and the cabside numerals are poor.

 

Speed variation and heating is intrinsic of a motor brush fault. Dapol motors do get warmer than Farish ones, but if combined with speed variations then this is a telling set of symptoms. Fixable by a brush swap. I've seen this on my Britannia and have only just (hopefully!!) cured it. Post coming up on Dapol forum on my findings on this. Nameplates I agree with you - they are vastly overscale - in fact if you measure them you'll find they are almost perfect for 3mm scale!!! They are swappable with Modelmaster ones though - I've done this on my 70038 which has been renumbered and named to "Lightning".

 

Ideally, I would like to see my faith restored in the quality of the operation of N gauge products, which are after all such good-looking toys!

 

They can run well and generally any faults can be rectified. I doubt if you go to 4mm you'll eliminate these issues - the 4mm forums are equally chalked full of complaints and problems. I agree that things should also be better (particularly with the hikes in prices we've seen), but I also get the feeling that these factories, which if they make anything else it's toys, simply can't make things with the necessary quality control that we'd like. Whilst in an ideal world we'd simply send everything back that wasn't quite right until we got satisfaction, in reality it's sometimes more practical to make fixes yourself, especially if you can see the problem and the fix.

 

I wouldn't give up though - the designs are inherently fine, it's just the QC that they need to improve - and running can be superb if my experiences are anything to go by.

 

With regards the 67s and 66 - these should be fixable, and if it's any help feel free to drop me a line off list - am happy to help in seeing if they can be got going given that I've had, and rectified similar problems.

 

Best regards,

Alan

[Dr Al]

I am sorry to hear you are having such a rough time of it. According to Hattons (who sell in enough volumes to count as a reasonable average) the failure rate for N gauge products is around the 5% mark and not much different from 00.

 

Of course the real life failure rate will be a lot higher as some won't send things back, and some will go straight into display cabinets never to be used, others just won't be used!

 

I read on one other list that the failure rate another model shop was quoting of OO was 20%....

 

Cheers,

Alan

[Karhedron]

I read on one other list that the failure rate another model shop was quoting of OO was 20%....

That really is shocking although I do not dispute your claim. It seems to be the sad cost of outsourcing manufacture to 3rd parties and not paying for quality control. I wonder how many people are permenantly turned off the hobby by such experiences?

[Revolution Ben]

I wonder how many people are permenantly turned off the hobby by such experiences?

 

A few, for sure, if the 20% figure is correct (though it's certainly not my experience.)

 

But the question for manufacturers is: Is that figure more or less than the number who'd be permanently turned off the hobby by the higher prices that would be the inevitable consequence of better quality control?

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[Tom J]

I think if you pay more and it works, you are less likely to be disappointed than if you pay less and it doesn't...

 

Dr Al, thank you so much for such a thorough message of assistance! I'll be in touch.

 

I think if you pay more and it works, you are less likely to be disappointed than if you pay less and it doesn't...

 

Dr Al, thank you so much for such a thorough message of assistance! I'll be in touch.

[McRuss]

Tom,

 

when you pay more and it works it is ok, but if you pay more and the loco doesn't work it is very disappointing.

When you follow german forums about the quality of Fleischmann, there are many threads where customers

say that they got problems with their Fleischmann loco, and they have paid up to 300 Euros for one locomotive.

And if you are lucky you get a twenty year old model, for your money. Another problem at the moment by many

german model railway manufactures in N scale is that there is a problem with providing spare parts.

 

Markus

[aaron14xx]

My own experience wth Kato and other Japanese models is that diesel bogie locos run really well, but steam not so well - a bit like most people's experience of Farish and Dapol.

 

Have to disagree with the steam bit i'm afraid, as I recently bought my first N-gauge set, Kato passport set with D51, and the model runs beautifully, no problems what so ever!

[rope runner]

The only issues I've ever had was with a pair of early GF 66's - split gears.

 

All the other Dapol and GF locos I have are pretty much perfect runners.

 

Paul A.

[Karhedron]

My only failure to date has been a Dapol 2884 which died during running in. The tender let the magic smoke out . This was returned to the shop and came back a week or so later with a new motor.

 

I think that how manufacturers and retailers deal with failures is more important than the absolute failure rate. On that score I am satisfied so far.

[paulprice]

I have to add that although I only model the steam era, all the farish and Dapol loco's I have are great performers, the farish onbes especially since Bachmann took over, the only real issue I have is with the Dapol Ivatts I have two and both can rival my jag at pulling away from a stop.

 

It's always good I find to ask to see a model runnig before you purchase it though with Mail order this is not possible

[Portpatrick]

My own Ivatt was a bit of a kangaroo from the box.  Then I looked underneath.  slacking off the screws on the keeper plate by less than quarter of a turn worked wonders.  I guess the plate was rubbing on the gears.

[paulprice]

has anyone had problems with the Farish Austerity loco's I was thinking of getting one but I was told that they can be awkward

[Karhedron]

I don't have one myself as I have been saving my funds for all things hydraulic. I have heard that they run well but that the haulage can be variable.

[queensquare]

has anyone had problems with the Farish Austerity loco's I was thinking of getting one but I was told that they can be awkward

 

I've had several pass through my hands for chipping etc and all have been lovely runners. The new motor Farish are using is superb - I wish it were available as a spare.

 

Jerry

[paulprice]

cool, I think I could justify getting one and repaintining it into LNER livery as my layout is Pre-1948 and I dont believe the LMS had one,

 

Speaking of chips how easy is it fitting chips to the old Farish products?

[talisman56]

I'm on the lookout for some buffers for some of my BachFar latest design Mk1 coaches - they keep coming out of the buffer mountings and a couple have completely disappeared somewhere on the layout... now I'm going to take them all off and stick them in with some liquid poly...

[richierich]

I've just got out tonight my 66 701 GBRf loco, and to be honest it sounds like something Triang made in the 1960's. I think its possibly the quality (or not) of the motor they fit. No amount of fettling and running in has made any improvement.

 

Its disappointing and a real reason I'm drifting away from N once again. In comparison I've Hornby super detail 56, which can crawl slower than most N! Plus never have the recurring expensive issue of split wheel set gears 

[Dr Al]

The motor is silky smooth - it's the same unit used in many other Farish new tool diesels.

 

The 66 seems to be noisier than some - I suspect this is more down to the bodyshell amplifying noise than anything.

 

Also, split gears should not be recurring if correctly fixed.

 

Cheers,
Alan

[justin1985]

Almost certainly split gears. Earlier releases of Farish 66s did seem to suffer quite a bit, and the GBRF model was always a regular feature of the Bachmann "sold as seen" returns table at exhibitions - presumably because they'd been returned because of split gears, had the gears replaced and sold on as seconds. I get the impression that newer 66s don't really have the problem (at least not so much) whereas 57s do still seem to be plagued. Not great, and should be better, but not the end of the world.

 

A properly maintained modern N gauge loco, on properly maintained, properly laid track should have no trouble crawling at a barely perceptible speed - especially with DCC or a suitably fine DC controller like a PICtroller. Tolerances are inevitably finer, so you do have to be more careful with track laying and cleaning and checking wheels and pickups etc - but thats the inevitable trade off for being able to actually run trains, rather than simply shuffle 'Orribly Oversized locos back and forth on a TMD plank! 

[richierich]

Well being investigating why this Farish 66 (66701) runs so poorly. Nothing wrong with the wheel set gears, drivetrain gears etc. swooped the bogies across to another 66 it it crawls at a sleeper by sleeper pace.

 

So the issue is the motor. It runs when turned by hand there is quite a bit of resistance as it turns. Indeed it feels like a three pole motor.

 

So I'm wondering has anyone fitted an alternative motor to their 66?

[mikeg]

I have two issues one the Dapol Q1 which was a good runner from new but now will no run slowly, its chipped with a mid range from Gaugemaster and will run only above speed step 10 unless you press on the tender, which has lead in all available spaces, the pin-points do not appear to make contact one two sets of wheels. THe other loco is the Bach-Farish class 57 which has been an excellent runner from new but this morning it fried the chip, on investigation the wiper contacts have touched the gear shaft ends on opposite sides going through the point work of the fiddle yard! have put in the blanking plate and it runs on DC but I think it may still be shorting as it stops and then starts, the controller has a thermal cut-out.

 

anybody any ideas as to a solution to either problem.

 

regards

 

mike g

[acourtrail]

I have had rather a mixed bag when it comes to my N scale locomotives.

 

Of the two Farish Warships, D832 is a bit noisy, but has run OK so far.  D829 (maroon version) died without warning after about a year.  I had three others in the past, and one of those died in the same way as D829.

 

Both of my Farish Ns seem OK so far, one of them was misbehaving to begin with, but I easily fixed it.  Under the tender are two copper pickup springs, and they should go UNDER the little plastic ledges.  One was not where it should have been, so I pushed it back under the ledge using a cocktail stick.

 

My Farish class 31 has been fine so far.

 

The Farish 4F (from the Seaside Excursion set) runs OK, but can only pull about 10 wagons or 4 coaches, any more and it sits still with the wheels spinning.

 

The Farish Ivatt 2MT runs OK most of the time, but on random days, it flits between fast and slow as it pleases (and yes, the track is clean).

 

The Farish B1 has been fine so far, and so was the other one I used to have.

 

The Dapol class 121 runs OK, but it still noisy, even after lubrication.

 

In the past I had three Farish class 24s (all ran fine, but one chose to run backwards when I wanted it to go forwards and vice versa), a Farish Black 5 (I only found out that it had not been put together properly after it had run for about a year and the gears had worn unevenly) and a Farish 4MT 2-6-0 (that ran OK, but spent a lot of time with the wheels spinning).