Wainwright C-class 0-6-0

[phil gollin]

I might as well start a thread nice and early.

 

I am mainly interested in BR era "C"s, maybe people can help.

 

1: I can find relatively few photos from the late 50s/early 60s - does anyone have a few good book (or website) references ? (Is there an Ian Allan Loco special magazine I might pick-up on e-bay ?)

 

2: Does anyone know how many (roughly) made it into "late" BR livery (late emblem).

 

3: On a couple of photos I have found the "plumbing" (small diameter oil lubrication pipes ?????) on the right hand side seems rather hit and miss (sagging and running diagonally) - was this normal or merely one of the class having a "bad hair day" ?

 

4: One of these photos shows air compressors on the right-side quite near the cab front. I PRESUME this is an "auto" fitted loco - was this common ?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

.

[Redkiterail]

 

4: One of these photos shows air compressors on the right-side quite near the cab front. I PRESUME this is an "auto" fitted loco - was this common ?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

.

 

there were not push pull fitted as this was h class 0-4-4 locomotives the air compressors might be for air brakes.

[Guest Max Stafford]

Not familiar with Eastern Section practice, but might these air brakes have been for handling continental stock off the ferries?

 

Dave.

[RFS]

Try the Southern Images web-site (search under collections). It has lots of pictures of the C class 0-6-0, a class I remember well as they often trundled past our school when I was slightly younger than I am today!

 

http://www.southern-images.co.uk/

 

Also Southern Railway Photo Net here -

 

http://southernrailway.net/home/index.php

 

The class is covered in Locomotives Illustrated 64 (Pre-Grouping Southern 0-6-0s (March 1989)).

[G-BOAF]

The "Air Brake" like pumps on the side are for the steam operated reverser.

[Bluebell Model Railway]

Oddly there seems to be a bit of info on the Bluebell website... my 2 pence worth to the convo...

 

http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/c.html

[RFS]

Not familiar with Eastern Section practice, but might these air brakes have been for handling continental stock off the ferries?

 

Dave.

 

Some locos were fitted with air brakes and the compressors were located on the right-hand side just under the cab window. There's a nice picture in Locomotives Illustrated 64 of 31589 hauling a long train of continental ferry vans. However the loco is not dual-fitted so the stock must have had vacuum brakes. The date is August 1957 at which time these vans would have been steam-hauled in France as well.

 

I suspect the dual-fitted locos would have been used with Central Section (ex-LBSCR) stock where air brakes were the norm.

 

There's also a picture of 31588 in LI 64 at Paddock Wood in October 1960 with the later BR emblem on the tender. It's the only example of this I can find.

[Oldddudders]

My 1961/2 ABC Combined Volume quotes 38 C class locos in traffic, although some may have been in store, of course, and the SED became steam-free in 1962, ISTR. It seems likely that a number of these would already have received the later BR emblem, and in the photo 31068 certainly has.

 

EDIT "BR Steam Locos from Nationalisation to Modernisation" by Williams/Percival shows 31004 with the modern emblem.

[The Stationmaster]

The class did relatively well under BR prior to the Kent Coast Electrification scheme - not later emblem I know but 90 of the original 100 were still in traffic in 1955 according to Casserley.

[phil gollin]

 

Some locos were fitted with air brakes and the compressors were located on the right-hand side just under the cab window. There's a nice picture in Locomotives Illustrated 64 of 31589 hauling a long train of continental ferry vans. However the loco is not dual-fitted so the stock must have had vacuum brakes. The date is August 1957 at which time these vans would have been steam-hauled in France as well.

 

I suspect the dual-fitted locos would have been used with Central Section (ex-LBSCR) stock where air brakes were the norm.

 

There's also a picture of 31588 in LI 64 at Paddock Wood in October 1960 with the later BR emblem on the tender. It's the only example of this I can find.

 

 

.

 

I don't have that photo, however, the photo I was referring to is in "Kent Steam - Scenes from the fifties and sixties" by Michael Welch, published by Capital Transport in 2002. There is a photo of 31716 on page 65, dated 18th May 1961, leaving East Farleigh with two coaches and a van. This has a huge mass of piping on the right-hand side, including what seems to be an air-compressor just in front of the cab, and various bits and pieces between the first and second splashers.

 

.

[asmay2002]

I don't have that photo, however, the photo I was referring to is in "Kent Steam - Scenes from the fifties and sixties" by Michael Welch, published by Capital Transport in 2002. There is a photo of 31716 on page 65, dated 18th May 1961, leaving East Farleigh with two coaches and a van. This has a huge mass of piping on the right-hand side, including what seems to be an air-compressor just in front of the cab, and various bits and pieces between the first and second splashers.

 

The Steam Reverser is next to the cab. The air brake pump is between the first and second splashers.

[gc4946]

According to my copy of "BR steam shed allocations, part nine, Southern Region sheds" (Defiant Publications, 1986) Cs were allocated, at least from 1957, to all three Southern Region divisions, with allocations at Nine Elms, Feltham, Guildford and Brighton away from the ex-SECR lines.

AFAIK they were the only pre-grouping Southern 0-6-0 design to have allocations across the region, only Maunsell's Qs and Bulleid Q1s otherwise had that distinction.

No doubt this was also a factor in Bachmann planning a model of this class.

[Steve Sykes]

The Steam Reverser is next to the cab. The air brake pump is between the first and second splashers.

 

I think it's the other way around. All the class had steam reversers located between the first and second splashers on the right hand side; those locos fitted with Westinghouse brakes had the air pump just in front of the cab on the same side. There were initially 15 locos with air brakes, delivered by Sharp Stewart in 1900 for working LCDR stock which was air-braked; the SER was a vacuum brake line. No. 712 of this batch is shown in Fig. 4 of Bradley's book on SECR locos which shows the right hand side of the loco.

[RFS]

The Steam Reverser is next to the cab. The air brake pump is between the first and second splashers.

 

Definitely the other way round. All the photos I have show the fittings between 1st and 2nd splashers on every loco, but only those with air brakes have the fittings next to the cab.

 

I suppose the next question is what version will Bachmann be producing?

[LC&DR]

According to my copy of "BR steam shed allocations, part nine, Southern Region sheds" (Defiant Publications, 1986) Cs were allocated, at least from 1957, to all three Southern Region divisions, with allocations at Nine Elms, Feltham, Guildford and Brighton away from the ex-SECR lines.

AFAIK they were the only pre-grouping Southern 0-6-0 design to have allocations across the region, only Maunsell's Qs and Bulleid Q1s otherwise had that distinction.

No doubt this was also a factor in Bachmann planning a model of this class.

 

I am reasonably certain theMaunsell Q class were never officially allocated to the SED, but they did work occasional excursions from Victoria to Sheerness on Sea on Summer Saturdays. Q1s were however allocated to all divisions.

 

The 'C' class were known to work to Eastleigh and Southampton occasionally, and have even been recorded on the GWR west of Reading. They were commonly used to Willesden, Cricklewood and possibly to Temple Mills, but I haven't proved this one yet, a well travelled class indeed.

[Torn-on-the-platform]

Has there been any indication of a rough delivery date for the forthcoming releases?

 

Failing that, have there been any pre-production shots?

[Ed-farms]

Has there been any indication of a rough delivery date for the forthcoming releases?

 

Failing that, have there been any pre-production shots?

 

No delivery date or pre-producion shots yet - the last Bachmann Collectors Club magazine says the CAD Drawings are now complete and has now progressed to the tool room so we may see something in a few months time. Keep checking the Bachmann website for either delivery date or tooling pics.

[Jack]

I am reasonably certain theMaunsell Q class were never officially allocated to the SED, but they did work occasional excursions from Victoria to Sheerness on Sea on Summer Saturdays. Q1s were however allocated to all divisions.

 

Maunsell Q Class could also be found around Gravesend and the EKLR ... I have some pics lurking somewhere.

[Ed-farms]

Engineering Prototype is due anytime soon into Bachmann, keep your eyes on their website and you should see a photo of it before too long.

[Graham_Muz]

Engineering Prototype is due anytime soon into Bachmann, keep your eyes on their website and you should see a photo of it before too long.

 

Pictures of the two EPs can be found here on my blog. One has been hand painted into BR livery.

[10800]

 

1: I can find relatively few photos from the late 50s/early 60s - does anyone have a few good book (or website) references ? (Is there an Ian Allan Loco special magazine I might pick-up on e-bay ?)

 

 

You could try Locomotives Illustrated #64 (Pre-Grouping Southern 0-6-0s) or the Bradford Barton book on Wainwright classes, though both cover many more than just the Cs.

[Horsetan]

You could try Locomotives Illustrated #64 (Pre-Grouping Southern 0-6-0s) or the Bradford Barton book on Wainwright classes, though both cover many more than just the Cs.

 

Or indeed the SEMG website:

[Mod6]

This topic was getting to be more on Railway Children 2000 coaches, so I've moved that part of the conversation to http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/54534-railway-children-2000-coaches/

[Old Gringo]

My 1961/2 ABC Combined Volume quotes 38 C class locos in traffic, although some may have been in store, of course, and the SED became steam-free in 1962, ISTR. It seems likely that a number of these would already have received the later BR emblem, and in the photo 31068 certainly has.

 

EDIT "BR Steam Locos from Nationalisation to Modernisation" by Williams/Percival shows 31004 with the modern emblem.

 

Following on from Ian's information, "British Railway Steam Locomotives 1948-1968" Hugh Longworth, OPC 2005, lists 53 of the C class in traffic in December 1960, down to 21 by December 1961 and just three remaining by December 1962. During 1963 all three were withdrawn in July 1963, however two passed into Departmental service staying on the books until 1966, as DS239 and DS240.

 

Longworth uses an undated photograph in his book of 31086, as an example of the C Class, but unfortunately it's carrying the earlier "Lion & Wheel" symbol.

 

I would think that a search of the major photographic libraries (NRM, KRM, Color-rail, etc.), asking for photos of the 21 locomotives that made it to the end of 1961 might produce several examples carrying the later emblem, as it would have been applied at most repaints for around 4/5 years (the new emblem was first used at Swindon in spring 1956 on a Britannia class).

 

All the best, John.

 

Later edit: the 21 that were on the books in January 1962 were: 31112, 31218, 31267, 31268, 31271, 31280, 31293, 31317, 31510, 31584, 31588, 31592, 31686, 31689, 31690, 31717, 31719, 31721, 31722, 31723 and 31724. The six locomotives in bold type are mentioned in the following note confirming they carried the later emblem.

 

Extra edit: from a later post (29) we can speculate that: 31244, 31293, 31686, 31717 and 31719 also had the later emblem as they passed through Ashford works during the latter half of 1960 (source RCTS Locos of the SECR.). So, we're getting closer to a list of the last in traffic to satisfy the OP.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Old Gringo

[Old Gringo]

As I've not been feeling too bright this afternoon, I decided to trawl my little colour albums for pictures of C Class locos - looking for those carrying the later BR emblem. Here's the results, which gives you (with Ian's, 31004 and 31068 - and 31588 from RFS) at least ten, or possibly even twelve to choose from and a caption which confirms that 13 went through Ashford works for general repairs and repaints during 1960. 31004 and 31068 were withdrawn in November and October 1961, respectively and 31588 in June 1962.

 

1. 31692 - 2 March 1960 at Hither Green, on page 55, South Eastern Steam (Colour Portfolio No. 7), Rodney Lissenden, Ian Allan, 1991. In the caption for this photo by Trevor Owen, it says 13 went through Ashford during 1960, etc. - so we are looking for at least a dozen more! 31692 was withdrawn in April 1960.

2. 31510 - May 1960 at Nine Elms, on page 6, Heyday of Nine Elms Locomotives, Colin Boocock, Ian Allan,1992. In the photo by J. Oatway, which is a 3/4 tender view, we can see another unidentified C Class with late Crest in the background - most annoying! Interestingly, it has an electronic warning notice next to the top tender step. 31510 was withdrawn in June 1962.

3. 31584 - 13 June 1959 at Stewarts Lane, on page 5, Heyday of Stewarts Lane, R.C.Riley, Ian Allan, 2001. Riley's overview photo of the shed has three Cs in shot, two of which are carrying the later emblem, however, only 31584 is identified, it was withdrawn in February 1962.

4. 31592 - 11 July 1961 at Paddock Wood, on page 13, On Southern Lines, Roy Hobbs, Ian Allan, 1997. The photo shows 31592 on an LCGB double heading with 01, 31065. I have seen several photos of this special, which ran on the final day of steam on the South Eastern section. 31592 became DS239 and survived.

5. 31724 - 25th Feb. 1962 at Ashford shed, on page 11, On Southern Lines, Roy Hobbs, Ian Allan, 1997. The photo also has 31721 in shot, but it's so dirty that we cannot honestly say whether it's had a new emblem. However the new electrification warning notice is clearly there on the back of the tender, so I'd speculate that by this late date it also has the later crest. 31721 and 31724 were withdrawn in March and April 1962 respectively.

6. 31716 - 2 June 1961 at Wateringbury, on page 56, The Southern around London, Kevin McCormack, Ian Allan, 2003. A David Clark photo and the engine is so dirty that I'm not sure, but there's a emblemy mark on the tender, so I'd speculate that by the date it might well have been through Ashford since 1957 and had the full repaint? 31716 was withdrawn in October 1961.

7. 31113 - April 1959 at Dover shed, Southern Steam on Shed, Fairclough & Wills, Bradford Barton album, undated. A Peter Winding B/W photo which only just shows the emblem. 31113 was withdrawn in July 1961.

 

Well, hope this list makes a start for you, Phil.

 

All the best, John.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Old Gringo