Wainwright C-class 0-6-0

[Graham_Muz]

Darren

 

The increase in prices has been well documented elsewhere and is due to general manufacturing cost increases. If they also now fitted tender pick ups the costs would go up even further.

[asmay2002]

Hi 

The thing is the price has not been kept down,But has gone up, So if the price has gone up why do they not fit pickups the tender?.

 

Presumably because the price has not gone up enough to pay for pickups on the tender.....

[bigherb]

Apparently the lack of tender pickups was to save money on the tooling as the secr passenger livery was so expensive to make.

Doesn't explain why the 3F didn't have tender pick ups either. It is a great shame the first Southern locomotive from Bachmann for decades had to be their version of design clever with that stuffing great slot in the firebox, moulded handrails and those tender brake shoes really rub with me.

[coachmann]

Doesn't explain why the 3F didn't have tender pick ups either. It is a great shame the first Southern locomotive from Bachmann for decades had to be their version of design clever with that stuffing great slot in the firebox, moulded handrails and those tender brake shoes really rub with me.

For goodness sakes, molded handrails?  How on earth is a plastic loco to have wire vertical grab rails into the cab? The cab cutout beading would also have to be metal with the handrail soldered to it. Yes you could have daylight between the handrail and the cab side sheet, but being plastic, it would have to be overscale to stand handling be all sectors of the buying public.

 

As regards Tender pick ups, I agree they would be handy in this day and age when so many folk still use Insulfrog points, but there we are.

Edited July 30, 2014 by coachmann

[bigherb]

Yes you could have daylight between the handrail and the cab side sheet, but being plastic, it would have to be overscale to stand handling be all sectors of the buying public.

 

 

Hornby seemed to have managed it. Should I have not expected something of similar quality from Bachmann?

[pete_mcfarlane]

I do find the brake gear a bit weird, as the provided the break linkages for you to fit but moulded the shoes in line with the tender frames. It would have looked better if they'd left the brake gear off entirely and saved themselves a small amount of money. 

[JSpencer]

Hornby seemed to have managed it. Should I have not expected something of similar quality from Bachmann?

Hornby did so on their T9. I did accident break these on one of my 3 while handling it as the fall plat from the tender cut through them.

 

Speaking of fall plates, I feel this is more of a missing item on this model than daylight behind the handles.

[Jack]

After reviewing Bachmann's 2017 announcement I have pre-ordered a 9F Evening Star, a loco previously in production with the same reference number (32-850A last released in 2011 I think) ... so Bachmann clearly do re-releasing previous model.  Hopefully we may therefore see a re-run of '592' in fully lined livery at some point (for those of us not willing to pay Ebay prices) ... or is that just wishful thinking???

[adb968008]

After reviewing Bachmann's 2017 announcement I have pre-ordered a 9F Evening Star, a loco previously in production with the same reference number (32-850A last released in 2011 I think) ... so Bachmann clearly do re-releasing previous model. Hopefully we may therefore see a re-run of '592' in fully lined livery at some point (for those of us not willing to pay Ebay prices) ... or is that just wishful thinking???

EBay's not always expensive, I got 592 for £200 recently, it came with DCC sound which I passed back to the site and reduced my purchase cost to a respectable £130 after costs.

Edited January 10, 2017 by adb968008

[Trojmiasto]

On 10/01/2017 at 11:02, Jack said:

After reviewing Bachmann's 2017 announcement I have pre-ordered a 9F Evening Star, a loco previously in production with the same reference number (32-850A last released in 2011 I think) ... so Bachmann clearly do re-releasing previous model.  Hopefully we may therefore see a re-run of '592' in fully lined livery at some point (for those of us not willing to pay Ebay prices) ... or is that just wishful thinking???

You certainly got your wish - re-release at £224.95. An increase in RRP of over 100% in seven years, with no change to the model. 

 

Hopeful I'm not the only person concerned about the direction this hobby is heading.

[micklner]

4 hours ago, Trojmiasto said:

You certainly got your wish - re-release at £224.95. An increase in RRP of over 100% in seven years, with no change to the model. 

 

Hopeful I'm not the only person concerned about the direction this hobby is heading.

More like the way Bachmann are heading , £22 for a LNER Fish van quite sad times.

[Steamport Southport]

4 hours ago, Trojmiasto said:

You certainly got your wish - re-release at £224.95. An increase in RRP of over 100% in seven years, with no change to the model. 

 

Hopeful I'm not the only person concerned about the direction this hobby is heading.

 

Or paint one yourself and see how much change you get from £224.95. You can buy a BR Black one for £70. All you need is some paint....

 

Besides does anyone ever pay full RRP? They are currently about £190 which is about the price of a diesel.

 

 

 

Jason

[Jack]

5 hours ago, Trojmiasto said:

You certainly got your wish - re-release at £224.95. An increase in RRP of over 100% in seven years, with no change to the model. 

 

Hopeful I'm not the only person concerned about the direction this hobby is heading.

 

Well, its not a re-issue, it's a different identity.  I'm happy with that since I was going to change it to '583' anyway.

 

The upward trend of rrp has been discussed in various places before and is a sad fact of our new global reality.

 

However, when you look on Bachmann's website I think it is shocking that the lined green one is a full £100 more than a black one when, as others have said, Hornby and Hattons didn't charge such a variance.  nNeither is there such a variance on *any* other model which is offered in lined and unlined liveries.

 

Still, at the end of the day, it is a hobby, and if we paid a kit builder to do such things then it would cost more.  Before the SECR became so popular with rtr manufacturers I know someone who kit built a D then paid a professional to paint it ... that really wasn't cheap by the time he'd brought the kit, the wheels, the gearbox, the motor, spent time building it, then paid the pro to finish it off.

[Trojmiasto]

4 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Or paint one yourself and see how much change you get from £224.95. You can buy a BR Black one for £70. All you need is some paint....

 

Besides does anyone ever pay full RRP? They are currently about £190 which is about the price of a diesel.

 

 

 

Jason

With respect, that was not the point of my post. 

[Oldddudders]

15 hours ago, Trojmiasto said:

With respect, that was not the point of my post. 

No, you make it clear you see the cost of our hobby increasing unfavourably. Fair enough. 

 

But none of us dies in a ditch because we can't afford a particular model - it really is discretionary expenditure. And Bachmann, whose original SECR C Class sold like hotcakes, and arguably opened the industry's eyes to the money to be made in Pre-Grouping, is actually entitled - indeed arguably wise - to charge a little more for a product it guesses will again rush off the shelves. Manufacturers are in business to make money, that's all, not to be our friends. 

[Butler Henderson]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

And Bachmann, whose original SECR C Class sold like hotcakes, and arguably opened the industry's eyes to the money to be made in Pre-Grouping, is actually entitled - indeed arguably wise - to charge a little more for a product it guesses will again rush off the shelves. Manufacturers are in business to make money, that's all, not to be our friends. 

Also IRRC they stated they made a loss on the original ones with the price they sold them onto the trade being less than the cost of production, notably down to the livery application, so their is probably an element of loss recovery involved in the price.

[Clearwater]

Can’t say as I blame Bachmann for the pricing.  They can see as much as us how consistently the prior lined version sells on eBay (I note prices now seem to have fallen...) why shouldn’t they take the profit rather than resellers?  
 

Prices doubling in seven years equates to an annual increase of 9% per annum each year.  I’d compare that to comments on what’s happening to wage inflation in China.  Strikes me that something that needs multiple passes through the tampo machine will cost more than something that needs only one or two passes. 

 

If people feel the price is too high, don’t buy.  Wait for the retailers to discount and sell their stock.  If you’re right you get a bargain, if not...

Edited December 22, 2019 by Clearwater
Point I forgot to make

[Jammy2305]

Paid £190 for No.583 and, having seen the quality of the livery application, it does make sense to me!

 

And, as has been said here, can you blame a company for trying to make a profit on something that has proven to be popular?

[phil-b259]

On 21/12/2019 at 13:45, Steamport Southport said:

 

Or paint one yourself and see how much change you get from £224.95. You can buy a BR Black one for £70. All you need is some paint....

 

Besides does anyone ever pay full RRP? They are currently about £190 which is about the price of a diesel.

 

 

 

Jason

 

And achieve a SECR finish as good as that achieved by Bachmann?

 

That intricate lining is a complex thing to apply, one slip and its ruined - which will have an impact on how much it costs to produce

 

 

[truffy]

3 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

And achieve a SECR finish as good as that achieved by Bachmann?

 

That intricate lining is a complex thing to apply, one slip and its ruined - which will have an impact on how much it costs to produce

 

Are you referring to the finish on the Bachmann model? It's printed, not hand painted, isn't it? Hand lining would be a completely different kettle of fish, but I doubt the Chinese factories are doing that.

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, truffy said:

 

Are you referring to the finish on the Bachmann model? It's printed, not hand painted, isn't it? Hand lining would be a completely different kettle of fish, but I doubt the Chinese factories are doing that.

Mistakes can still occur.

the more paint masks required, the more Tampo printing required, indeed even the more colours used all increase both the cost to manufacture and risk of someone making an error... it can be anything from stacking it in a tray to dry and it smudging against another, to missing off a print altogether.

 

every year Bachmanns stand at Warley has a number of rejects for sale, quite often these are very trivial errors in printing / painting.. but reject is reject, good for detailed modellers as they often provide a supply of source projects, spare parts, but bad for the manufacturer who has to handle the returns etc.

 

ive had a few, 47 with nameplates missing, 37 with scratched numbers, 37 with logo missing, jubilee with a paint smear etc... those are the ones that made it to the country.. we of course have no idea those that don’t...

 

if someone innocently printed black before gold.. a whole batch could be lost, and if there’s 50+ paint operations, 1 in the wrong order might take ages to spot... even the humble Lion in Wheel logo consists of at least 7 colours.. Cream, off white (sometimes silver/grey), red, blue, black, yellow, brown.. if you put yellow before red.. you’ve got a bright red lion..sitting in front of the crown, not in it.

Edited December 22, 2019 by adb968008

[friscopete]

On 21/12/2019 at 13:45, Steamport Southport said:

 

Or paint one yourself and see how much change you get from £224.95. You can buy a BR Black one for £70. All you need is some paint....

 

Besides does anyone ever pay full RRP? They are currently about £190 which is about the price of a diesel.

 

 

 

Jason

I have done this using a green  simplified late  lining  C and  SE finecast SECR decals .It didnt quite have  the amount of lining the full  Bachmann version had but came  out reasonably well .I sold it on .Decals were not that cheap especially as they are tricky to put on being a peel  off top film type and I mucked up some lining so had to buy another sheet  .I want to see if the new green version sells well or gets remaindered .Gone off SECR .............common ......

[Butler Henderson]

Problem with doing a livery yourself is getting to match in with existing stock; I had a plain black BR Black Five and embarked on lining it with Fox Transfers lining; just did not look right, although the lining is of fine proportions set against any current RTR loco it was woefully heavy and I ended up buying a factory lined body and tender relatively cheaply off ebay

[Legend]

On 22/12/2019 at 12:33, Clearwater said:

Can’t say as I blame Bachmann for the pricing.  They can see as much as us how consistently the prior lined version sells on eBay (I note prices now seem to have fallen...) why shouldn’t they take the profit rather than resellers?  
 

Prices doubling in seven years equates to an annual increase of 9% per annum each year.  I’d compare that to comments on what’s happening to wage inflation in China.  Strikes me that something that needs multiple passes through the tampo machine will cost more than something that needs only one or two passes. 

 

If people feel the price is too high, don’t buy.  Wait for the retailers to discount and sell their stock.  If you’re right you get a bargain, if not...

 

Wages in China aren’t going up anything like that .

 

I’m just worried about the cost of the Rails Bachmann Caley 812 , which is still some way away. It’s priced at £200 for the fully lined version, but if the c Clasc is now £220 I really wonder if that’s final price . I hope Rails have tied them down contractually .

 

I’d also pint out the Hornby are producing some intricate liveries eg NB J36 , even though it’s black it’s still pretty complex , at no extra cost . In fact the NB J36 with TTS sound was £136 almost some £90 cheaper . Yes I know lots of differences , but really £90 extra is a lot to justify.

[Butler Henderson]

Bachmann are tied to the Kader factory and whatever costs are accrued according to the factory management, Hornby use a number of suppliers and no doubt there is an element of competitive tendering involved which lowers the final price. Bachmann generally are charging more for lined versions of a class, not just the C although this is an extreme case, and it will be interesting to see what price they set for the lined Midland 1P compared to the plain black version.

Edited December 23, 2019 by Butler Henderson