Andy Y Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 As previously announced Dapol will be producing the Western in 2mm and 4mm.I placed an article on the scanning process in Showcase here - http://www.rmweb.co....howcase/?p=1493The initial CAD output from the scanning is now being worked upon by Dapol for checking and addition of further detail.The initial views of the CAD capture the roof profile over the window well, addressing the main issue with Heljan's earlier offering. Hopefully I can keep you updated with further information and illustrations as the process continues. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted March 17, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 17, 2011 Thanks Andy. The CAD looks very encouraging. When first looking at the Heljan model I could see the roof profile didn't look quite right, but could never quite tell why. Now you can see the lines on the CAD, the subtleties of the shape show up very well. Let's hope the tool-makers can replicate it. A 4mm version in time for Christmas would be just the ticket. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon020 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Andy, yes, this looks very nice. I'm no expert on type... but there will be those that are on here - is there an oportunity here for some independent validation? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Hi Guys, to add to Andy's earlier comments, here's where we are with the cad. Firstly the only palpable thing you see that we have is here. Work is now going on to refine the cad/cam to include the nuances that earlier and later once had. (thinking battery box, side opening hatch and boiler grill etc) We are designing the Western to have a fixed valance and thinking about the possibility (only thinking mind) to supply the loco fitted with NEM microtrains couplers, with spare UK couplers in the box. The scanning was the most complex we have ever done, as mindful of other attempts in all gauges to replicate this model unsuccessfully, i asked for not the usual 4 points of scanning but 10 points. This was because i wanted to make sure that pesky roof , cab roof front (peak) and 'nose' with cab front windows and distances etc were scanned very accurately. We also scanned underneath the front valance and fuel tanks as there are 2 pipes underneath the tank that are coloured depending on liquid carried and i wanted to replicate these too. We also managed to capture the off set fan grillsnicely too. I also, along with the scanning company, took a full photo survey of 'Champion' for analysing alongside the scans, and pictures readily available on the Locomotive. So, thats progress so far, and while i know its not much to look at at the moment, it gives you an idea of how accurate (or otherwise ) the OO and N gauge model will be. As usual, i would appreciate any comments regarding the look etc, but i hope it doesnt dissappoint the way it looks at the moment. Delivery is still scheduled for this year in both gauges by the way. cheers Dave Dapol Ltd 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I think that this bit of the post deserves a seond glance. We are designing the Western to have a fixed valance and thinking about the possibility (only thinking mind) to supply the loco fitted with NEM microtrains couplers, with spare UK couplers in the box. I know that Microtrains have been considering an NEM version for a while but this suggests it might actually come out this year! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 lol, sorry, my fault, i was referring to the OO version, but if the Bachmann one comes out, who knows? apologies for getting your hopes up. lol cheers Dave Dapol Ltd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickL2008 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Im looking forward to seeing more progress on the Dapol Western , I hope the model comes out this year, not sure about the microtrain couplers NL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Piszczek Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 This is all very encouraging! Thank you Andy and thank you Dave... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Are you cutting back the valances for the brake gear or leaving the brake gear to be fitted like Heljan? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Looks promising at the moment, I'm sure that at this rate - Dapol will be able to produce the most accurate RTR diesel loco to date! Please, please, please can you also ensure that both the 4 & 2mm versions will be able to be re-gauged as easily as possible? (EM, P4, 2mm etc!). I will be wanting a fleet of these (in P4!) I'm sure. Cheers, John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 My, my, doesn't 'Champ look a handsome devil, even from that low angle? Thanks for the update chaps, great to see what's going on behind the scenes so to speak. Definitely one to keep an eye on, this Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJP Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Even that early scan looks very good! Good to hear that you're putting extra effort into getting the shape of it right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted March 19, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 19, 2011 Looks like this is going to be a stunning model. Thanks Dave. I wonder what I should lobby you to produce next! - On the basis of the Western, we can look forward to some great models. Thanks again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted March 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 19, 2011 Hi Guys, to add to Andy's earlier comments, here's where we are with the cad. Firstly the only palpable thing you see that we have is here. Work is now going on to refine the cad/cam to include the nuances that earlier and later once had. (thinking battery box, side opening hatch and boiler grill etc) We are designing the Western to have a fixed valance and thinking about the possibility (only thinking mind) to supply the loco fitted with NEM microtrains couplers, with spare UK couplers in the box. The scanning was the most complex we have ever done, as mindful of other attempts in all gauges to replicate this model unsuccessfully, i asked for not the usual 4 points of scanning but 10 points. This was because i wanted to make sure that pesky roof , cab roof front (peak) and 'nose' with cab front windows and distances etc were scanned very accurately. We also scanned underneath the front valance and fuel tanks as there are 2 pipes underneath the tank that are coloured depending on liquid carried and i wanted to replicate these too. We also managed to capture the off set fan grillsnicely too. I also, along with the scanning company, took a full photo survey of 'Champion' for analysing alongside the scans, and pictures readily available on the Locomotive. So, thats progress so far, and while i know its not much to look at at the moment, it gives you an idea of how accurate (or otherwise ) the OO and N gauge model will be. As usual, i would appreciate any comments regarding the look etc, but i hope it doesnt dissappoint the way it looks at the moment. Delivery is still scheduled for this year in both gauges by the way. cheers Dave Dapol Ltd 74 4mm ones please Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1030western musketeer Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 At last a good looking cad of the best looking diesel ever built and very much look forward to the real thing and would like to see see through grills but i think am asking to much there.Look forward to futher up dates as well as seeing champion back on the main line. richard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRDBLUE17 Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Hi Dapal Dave, In the future would you plan to realease D1015 Western Champion in its current main line condition as that would be ideal for me to run then. Thanks, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 You'll just have to wait and see what may happen on that front Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted March 22, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 22, 2011 Hi Dapal Dave, In the future would you plan to realease D1015 Western Champion in its current main line condition as that would be ideal for me to run then. Thanks, Mark If Dapol does produce a D1015 in Desert Sand or Maroon as it is now, I suspect there will be as many wanting it in original form. I've no idea what changes are needed, but this may be one model where Dapol could consider offering optional headcodes or white spots in the box. The bright headlight in the RHS headcode box might be more difficult to cater for as a one off... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 would like to see see through grills but i think am asking to much there. I'm looking forward to a certain Mr Hanson getting his hands on this! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted March 23, 2011 Author Share Posted March 23, 2011 The irrelevant discussions (that have nothing to do with the subject matter) around couplings have been removed from this topic. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthelm Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Hi all, Great to see progress so far, Captures nose/peak accurately looking good for a great model of a fine Locomotive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted April 1, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 1, 2011 I've just seen this from Dapol Dave on the Class 56 thread (my highlight): Hi everyone, Roof arials are a customer fitted option in the accessory bag, and we are building into the tooling anough scope to change details here and there (roof grills, front handrail split with high intensity hight etc) This will take a while to filter through, so please dont expect them to appear all at once. Please remember N gauge is a fraction of OO in market and Dapol do not want to go down the 'flooding the market' route we did with the original 66's and 73's. However due to a cad/cam and tooling problem the OO and N gauge Westerns will appear with the front handrail mounted arials i'm afraid. Luckily they can easily be removed with a scalpel by the modeller.Cheers Dave Dapol Ltd For what is being billed as the ultimate Western, this is frankly ridiculous. Why should I have to take a scalpel to a model as soon as it arrives? You may not see the cut in N, but you certainly will in OO. I presume this aerial is something to do with running on the UK network and applies only to D1015 in its current preserved state? If it's a problem there are other preserved Westerns to scan and get the CAD/CAM right. I would imagine that the vast majority of purchasers will want the model in original condition, but now you're going to make it correct for one loco in its current condition. We are patiently waiting for the Class 22 while you get the details right - please do the same for the Western. If not, as far as I am concerned it's three lost sales. If it's an April fool, it's not funny. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 1, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 1, 2011 'Handrail mounted aerials' - presumably the same design as the luftwaffe used on night fighters, brilliant one for today Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Seems to be marginally over the top that really...It is a model after all, isnt that the srot of small action that modellers do to improve/alter things? Improving/altering is fine as modellers, but it sounds like this would be better to be corrected prior to release, rather than rushing out the model with a known error, and basically saying that we have to fix it ourselves! How does this affect the warranty too? If the model is been so attacked, will it then be no longer returnable to Dapol when the motor fails? Cheers, Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted April 1, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 1, 2011 isnt that the srot of small action that modellers do to improve/alter things? Of course it is. We replace plastic grills with etched parts and make changes to model specific locos with detail variations, but to me at least this is different. It's something that is easy to get right on the model from the outset by amending the CAD/CAM. It's not as if there are no other Westerns to refer to to get it right. If the problem is creating tooling to produce the model both with and without the aerials, then I expect most would prefer without. D1015 in preserved form is not even in the first productions runs. Dapol is effectively saying "We're producing a model, we know it's going to be wrong, but sorry it's not going to be corrected." Dapol has throughout the Class 22 project been saying how they want to get everything right and have delayed production to make adjustments. Surely Dapol can do the same for the Western. Unless it really is an April fool (after all, the aerial is NOT shown on the CAD/CAM in Andy first post in this thread). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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