Dapol 'Western'

[Downendian]

I have six Dapol Westerns as my layout is WR 1970s hydraulic centric.

Of the three that I've worked on two have had issues with body fixing screws being jammed solid.

This appears the same problem as Dave Millward and Phil Bullock (edit : and Rick (Gwiwer)) have described.

I had to drill the errant screws out and replace, but on one model I chose to release the female connector from the chassis which came out relatively easily. The screw could not be removed from the female connector even in a vice. The female connectors aren't available from DCC supplies.

I again chose not to return my two problematic models but sort the problem out myself. The running properties of all three other models were checked and all were fine- I've yet to check their fixing screws but will do so soon.

This is not a criticism of Dapol, as I'm very pleased with my new Western fleet but some attention to the body fixing screws in future releases maybe a worthwhile quality control issue - better alternative screws - a minimal cost would be a simple fix. As DapolDave says its better to highlight the problems either by returning the loco or indicating here so that future releases can be modified.

Neil

Edited July 20, 2013 by Downendian

[cctransuk]

Another vote here for Dapol locos!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Downendian]

Here's one of the three I've been working on the Kernow limited edition D1030. BSYP hydraulics on my layout.

 

I've added a decoder and headcodes (precision labels) which are more prototypical than provided.

The codes I've used are 8E38 Margam-Temple Mills and 6A21 St Erth-Acton.

 

Despite the issues described in the last few posts the Dapol model is an excellent representation of the prototype.

 

Neil

 

[D1030western musketeer]

First an apology to all members that have given advice/solutions and help.

As dave as mentioned all thou all the advice/input has been tried and taken on board I have not thanked you enough or as it seems not at all.

I have to face facts that Dapol locos don't like me or the layout and is a severe blow to my hydraulic fleet and plans.

As they say once bitten don't go there again although I have been bitten 7 times just to try and get a result.

I envy all that have them and enjoy them and to Dapol and dave sorry if this got out of hand and offended you in anyway.

I add the Dapol western is the best recreation out there of these fine good looking locomotives so I should get 2 wooden spoons for this. 

 

 

Richard.

Edited July 20, 2013 by D1030western musketeer

[Dogmatix]

And........(and here's the point) if you keep fixing it when you shouldn't have to we don't get the model back via DCC supplies who then would normally fix then send a monthly report to Dapol listing faults and suggesting remedies.

 

We need to see a pattern in returned loco's I'm afraid.

 

Dave,

 

I see what you mean here. However, there are good, valid reasons why a modeller might not really want to send a model back to his supplier:

 

 - postage from outside the UK (as some of us are) can be expensive and take a long time

 - the modeller might have made time-consuming alterations/additions which would be lost if the model is merely replaced

 - the supplier might refuse any warranty/guarantee on a model that has been altered/augmented/repainted/weathered

 - the problem might be more cheaply and more quickly remedied by a small spare part sent to the modeller

 - the modeller might have received the model as a present, and not have the receipt or even know who the supplier was

 - the supplier might have gone bust/belly-up/pear-shaped/out of business

 

In my opinion, if a consumer has to send something back due to a warranty/guarantee issue, he ought to be refunded registered 1st class airmail postage both ways from anywhere on the planet, and compensated for the time shipment, repair and return shipment take, and any reasonable alterations he has made (which, for models, can be quite far-ranging) not used as an excuse to refuse warranty/guarantee. But I cannot see every brand/supplier agreeing with that.

[DapolDave]

Hi Dogmatix,

 

Any guarantee by any Uk manufacturer is only valid, unless specifically mentioned in the instructions to Great Britain.

Even more is that the guarantee really isn't worth anything anyway, as the manufacturer cannot be held responsible in any way for a customer or a third party contract ( between the modeller and the supplying shop) which results in a duff model

 

European doesn't count either as the UK opted out of the main rules regarding warranties.

 

So basically there is no warranty outside Great Britain, just a contract within Great Britain under the sale of goods act between the supplying shop and the customer.

 

Any warranty offered is purely a goodwill gesture by each company, as they will have independent agreements in place with each of their customers ( I.e in this case the model shop they supplied to).

 

Dapol's warranty helps the shops in this case as it gives the customer within the GB further access to a decent remedy above and beyond the SOGA, which obviously for UK sales is the over riding statutory rights.

 

Only return postage within the GB is covered as customers in the GB should not be out of pocket ( I'm paraphrasing slightly here).

 

Oh and you can contact DCC supplies for parts rather than return the model, and this has taken place more than once since the 'W' scheme was introduced, although DCC supplies will not pay postage.

 

I hope this clarifies things, and maybe shows up the guarantee to be a goodwill thing from manufacturers rather than a 'right', but goodwill is important to all of us and I think we are going in the right direction, even if we aren't there just yet.

Cheers

Dave

[Fairburn]

Dave,

 

I work a lot with Construction Contracts and the presiding rule of thumb is that it generally follows that the law in the country in which the contract is formed takes precedent. So, if the contract was signed in England under English law, then the warranty would follow suit (should there be a claim under the contract and/or warranty), irrespective of where the work was physically undertaken - apologies if I've misunderstood what you've said above, and I don't aim to unpick what you've stated, I'm actually interested from the contract perspective.

 

I suppose to short-circuit my text above, if an overseas buyer contracted with a UK shop, does the associated warranty not support this purchase?

 

Finally, I've got 'Enterprise', 'Reliance' and await 'Princess'. I wish I could afford more, they are fantastic models.

[steveb860]

Steve, is that the bass enhanced or bass reflex speaker?

 

Martin

Hi Trent, not sure if it is Enhanced or reflex, it came from DCC supplies , the part no is mentioned in the instructions of the western , and Dapol have provided a mount specifically for this speaker. Soldering skills required if changing the speaker supplied by howes. 

[tetsudofan]

 

Yep, it's a lovely looking model but not when you look at the underside and examine one of the bogies:

 

WesternBogie.jpg

 

Look at the middle axle. When placed on the track the loco ran well but as soon as the loco went through the first point the rear bogie jumped. Examination revealed that there is no lateral movement in the middle axle as well as the back-to-back measurements being a bit off.

 

Made contact with DCC Supplies yesterday and arrangements being made to return the loco to them - hopefully it will be an easy replacement of the middle axle. In the same package, however, will be a headcode disc Cl.22 which does not run smoothly - it sort of surges faster-slower-faster etc. These two locos will join Western Sovereign which worked well at first but then expired...and is now waiting for a replacement chassis to be sourced.

 

Three problem locos is more than I would like but, touch wood, no problems with Western Enterprise, another headcode disc Cl.22, three headcode box Cl.22s,the LMS twins, three Beattie Well Tanks and four Sentinels have materialised. 3 out of 17 locos purchased.......and with more Dapol locos on backorder I sincerely hope things do get better.

 

Keith

 

EDIT: removed duplicate posting of picture

 

Just an update. Posted the Western (along with the Class 22) on Friday, received by DCC Supplies this morning and a short time ago received an e:mail that the problem has been sorted.

 

Also received e:mail confirming safe arrival of the Cl.22 and advising that a technician has been assigned. Looking good so far, let's hope they get the Cl.22 sorted as well.

 

Keith

[whistler]

Generally I'm pleased with my purchases and as I own a considerable number of locos over 1000 I can tell the difference between a good one and a not so good one.

 

I recently purchased 2 blue and 1 green 22 which have to be weathered to improve that awful colour they came in and I have 2 Westerns. One runs like a dream but the second shakes like a jelly on a plate and stalls over every set of points. This one I've return to Kernow costing over £10 in postage, I doubt I'll see that expense refunded.

 

I feel that the cost of locos today does make this an expensive hobby, so if there is a problem with an item them it should be returned, first to illustrate the issue to the manufacturer and secondly to avoid the expense of repairing locos to the customer.

 

Finally I agree with many on here in that quality control should be carried out at source and not by the customer but also some do escape the net, which is when a manufacturer must excel in customer service and not become critical as I'm sure most don't want or in reality deserve negative reviews as most models are fine.

Edited July 28, 2013 by whistler

[Downendian]

One of my Kernow 52s (D1068) will be going back, as 3 of the fixing screws won't budge.

The other D1068 I have though was fine, due to be renumbered D1001.

So that's 3/5 I've worked on have had body screw fixing issues.

Neil

[owentherail]

I've not received my D1068 from kernow yet, I hope it's not used as a replacement for the returned ones!! I did order it over 2 years ago. !!

[Gwiwer]

As many of us did.  Kernow MRC have advised via their newsletter that only a small batch of them has arrived so far with the rest still in transit.  I wouldn't be unduly concerned.

[driver532]

I currently have around 200 British outline OO models and two are Dapol 52's. One runs but shorts over pointwork as it see's fit and the other is awful - full stop. One pair of wheels lift around curves and derail the loco. It runs for around 5 minutes and stops dead. Seems to 'cool' and runs a bit longer before stopping again... this is unacceptable in any model loco in 2013. I will try the DCC supplies route but I'm far from happy with the models that were so expensive .... I've ran American HO, European HO and British OO on my DCC layout with loco's from every major manufacturer and with DCC/Sound, I have more than 40yrs experience with model railways. No more Dapol class 52's will I buy.

[owentherail]

I've not received my D1068 from kernow yet, I hope it's not used as a replacement for the returned ones!! I did order it over 2 years ago. !!

What worries me is they only had 250 done and they are having returns already on first few, now sold out so how many spare D1068s do they have over the 250

[D1056WesternSultan]

Mmmmmm.  Starting to get a bit itchy about my WLA special of D1062 with all these horrror stories of duff models.  I am thinking that I may keep it in it sbox without running and then send of to DCC supplies to get a sound chip fitted and the bugs ironed out befoire I try and run it at all.

 

It's hard to think now how excited we all were when that first post was put on the forum.  Mind you we were all a lot younger then

[Horsetan]

I wonder if a change to a coreless motor set-up might help....?

[47137]

I worked with a delegation from a Chinese electronics manufacturing company in around 1996. We were talking about 'technology transfer', like getting 1980s British designs built in Beijing; while they were picking up bits of solder from the benches to take it home and analyse. My overwhelming memories from those days are of sloppy copying (like winding bespoke inductors, wrongly) without understanding why the original thing was made the way it was, let alone trying to add in any original thought to make the thing better. It was a very alien (to me) mixture of wanting to be like the West ... by taking it 'ready made', not actualy 'trying'.

I remember having to take the group to 'see' London, and pointing out the salient features of the UK 25kV electric railway system while we all waited at Chelmsford railway station. They were from an engineering company after all. I met complete disinterest.

I have no idea whether the Chinese today have model railways; or if they do, what they make models of. I would however imagine an assembly operator in the UK, tasked with putting wheels onto axles, would put them the right distance apart without being told. After allm, the thing has got to sit on some track. The members of this delegation (admittedly, most of twenty years ago) might have been pleased to put the flange sides of the wheels on the insides, after you showed them.

This makes me want to think of more detail on assembly procedures and drawings to sort this out. But then again, when I buy something non-railway 'Made in China', while I expect it to probably work, for a while, I know if I try to take it to pieces I will encounter a mess of hot glue, messy solder and most likely some seriously under-rated electrolytic capacitors ... "No user serviceable parts inside"!

Dapol supply their Western with some self-adhesive numbers to stick onto the headcode boxes. I guess this is so you can have your choice of headcodes, without taking the thing to pieces. If we insist on taking it apart, whether to fit new wheels or headcodes or driver figures or whatever, are we expecting something of this toy train which we would never expect of the usual consumer durables from the same source?

 

[luke_stevens]

Has anyone tried to fit the Alan Gibson Heljan Western replacement wheels to the Dapol Western? With Ultrascale being sold-out, I'd be interested in lessening the jelly-like motion of my Western...

 

The AG pack has 3'7" wheels on a 2mm axle. Is this Dapol-compatible?

 

Thanks

 

Luke

[railroadbill]

Had my 52 hauling rake of maroon mk1s round loft, looks just the part. Now need to get on with adding the detail bits.  I also dug out my Heljan hymek to have a diesel hydraulic session which prompted the following thought.  Got some spare head codes for the hymek which look better than the Dapol ones. Many pages ago on this thread there were discussions about the correct head codes. Been through that  but I can't find whether  the class 35 ones would have been the same as the 52s (being on the same region). So could someone confirm if they are ok or not or point me in the right direction. 47s etc. seem to have had a different typestyle, don't know why.

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

 

Has anyone tried to fit the Alan Gibson Heljan Western replacement wheels to the Dapol Western? With Ultrascale being sold-out, I'd be interested in lessening the jelly-like motion of my Western...

 

The AG pack has 3'7" wheels on a 2mm axle. Is this Dapol-compatible?

 

Thanks

 

Luke

 

Luke,

 

....give me your address in a PM and I'll mail you the ones out of my next conversion. I'll be P4ing my third Dapol Western soon with Ultrascales and the original wheelsets are going begging...you'll need to pick & choose but you should be able to minimise the problems.

 

Dave

Edited July 26, 2013 by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71

[railroadbill]

Had my 52 hauling rake of maroon mk1s round loft, looks just the part. Now need to get on with adding the detail bits.  I also dug out my Heljan hymek to have a diesel hydraulic session which prompted the following thought.  Got some spare head codes for the hymek which look better than the Dapol ones. Many pages ago on this thread there were discussions about the correct head codes. Been through that  but I can't find whether  the class 35 ones would have been the same as the 52s (being on the same region). So could someone confirm if they are ok or not or point me in the right direction. 47s etc. seem to have had a different typestyle, don't know why.

 

Repying to my own previous post, I've now found p100 on this thread where Horsetan suggested Precision labels 3.6mm codes. The Heljan hymek characters are 4mm tall so would be a bit big.

[Geoff Endacott]

I have used Precision Labels 4mm headcodes. Headcodes on Hymeks and Westerns should be the same size.

 

Geoff Endacott

[railroadbill]

I have used Precision Labels 4mm headcodes. Headcodes on Hymeks and Westerns should be the same size.

 

Geoff Endacott

Thanks, Geoff.  Looked at some hymek photos and the headcodes look like they take up nearly all the height of the headcode window so the 4mm height seems right for them. Same applies to western photos, I think, so I'll give 4mm a try and see how it looks.

 

Measured the headcode "windows" on a number of my oo locos including the western and hymek and they are all 45mm deep - so that's consistent.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Measured the headcode "windows" on a number of my oo locos including the western and hymek and they are all 45mm deep - so that's consistent.

 

11 foot 3 inches???

 

Mike.