Rugd1022 Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 The roof panels on 22s and green 52s were different shades of grey Dave so I'd go with that darker shade you've found. Next to the green it should look very good ;-) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted November 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 8, 2012 Sod the roof colour Dave, it can be weathered, just get the damn thing out, some of us are desperate Mike. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 OK, I am convinced. Go with the darker shade. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Just dont tell my missus i'm doing 'different shades of grey' or she'll expect a 4th book cheers Dave 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjnewitt Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Hi guys, i'll go with the consensus of opinion here, but i have tracked down the roof grey to this http://www.e-paint.c...cQuery=BS 9-097 But it looks a shade darker than the pictures i can see although that might be film emulsion and light on the roof making it look like loco roof grey to my old eyes. so if you are all agreed then the Green ones and the Early Maroon ones will get this 'admiralty grey' Perhaps you speak to Precision Paints about this? They supply a paint specifically for the Western roof and they're colour matches are usualy pretty good. They might be able to point you in the right direction. As for finish, i really hate gloss on a model so am loathed to do so, as our new 'blue, green and maroon, have a sheen to them like the Bachmann loco's. Do Bachmann locos have a sheen to them? I can't say I've noticed. Mind you their paint doesn't tend to stay on my models for long. A vote for gloss here. Please, please, please, please no flat dull paint finishes on locos that are supposed to be ex works it looks completely wrong and you've spent so much time getting this right! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Brian Haresnape does state that while they where deciding on the future livery of the class the green ones where turned out in standard BR green with mid grey roof. A an hour perusing Google images seems to show the green ones with lighter roofs than the darker grey of the Maroon livery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) A vote for gloss here. Please, please, please, please no flat dull paint finishes on locos that are supposed to be ex works it looks completely wrong and you've spent so much time getting this right! Part of the problem with a gloss finish is that reflections do no scale properly. Reflections from a 1:1 light source on a 1:76 model destroy the illusion we are trying to create of a looking at a real loco from 150 metres away instead of a model from 1 metre away. The effect is even more pronounced in N gauge which is why I tend to finish my kit-built models with matt varnish, no sheen at all. I have built kits with a gloss finish before and they just look wrong. Most RTR manufacturers seem to have settled on a satin sheen as a compromise and I think that is probably as shiny as it is wise to go. Any glossier and I will have to take my can of Testors to RTR stuff too. Edited November 8, 2012 by Karhedron 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted November 8, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 8, 2012 By "sheen" I'm thinking in particular of one of Bachmann's recent Warships - D867 Zenith in green with SYP. That seems to have more of a sheen than other diesels from the same stable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) ....definitely no gloss for me thankyou...nothing looks worse on models. Dave Edited November 8, 2012 by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Brian Haresnape does state that while they where deciding on the future livery of the class the green ones where turned out in standard BR green with mid grey roof. A an hour perusing Google images seems to show the green ones with lighter roofs than the darker grey of the Maroon livery. The roof panels on the maroon Westerns were closer to black than the mid grey used on the seven green ones 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy1963 Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I like my models ex-works not weathered, but I have to agree with the no gloss solution here. If anyone has seen the full gloss Heljan 52's that are about at the moment, they look stupid, full gloss doesn't work on models. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) So the arrowed descriptions of colours on SL/SW/2451 were erased when the drawing was altered from maroon to blue.. HOWEVER, i forgot about the alterations table 01/01/1962 2" letters (A & B) below cab door to be painted black instead of cast aluminium. [an interesting cost saving i guess] 25/04/1962 Colour of roof hatches between bulkheads altered from Grey BSS 2660:9-094 to Black BSS 2660:9-103 14/05/1962 Drawing endorsed for locos D1006,7 & 8 27/09/1962 Colour of body changed from coach maroon to loco maroon. Colour of buffer beams and stocks changed from yellow to black ground colour of maker and depot plates changes from eggshell black to gloss black yellow panel shown on nose and note re details added endorsed for locos D1000,02-04,09-73. 07/03/1967 body including roof now br rail blue, br std carriage crest altered to 2' 6" br symbol white. yellow panel altered to portion shown hatched [FYE style] 17/12/1968 RA disks removed. loco data panel added. HTH. Research time free for the cause . I like satin btw not Heljan gloss or Hornby stanier coach 'flat matt;. Brought to you from the roll that produced an official diagram for a BR blue class 14 .. Edited November 8, 2012 by craigwelsh 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icknieldrobin Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Hi guys, i'll go with the consensus of opinion here, but i have tracked down the roof grey to this http://www.e-paint.c...cQuery=BS 9-097 But it looks a shade darker than the pictures i can see although that might be film emulsion and light on the roof making it look like loco roof grey to my old eyes. so if you are all agreed then the Green ones and the Early Maroon ones will get this 'admiralty grey' As for finish, i really hate gloss on a model so am loathed to do so, as our new 'blue, green and maroon, have a sheen to them like the Bachmann loco's. Tell me what you think and i'll go with the flow if there's enough comments for to justify it. cheers Dave Sheen please Dave, gloss always looks out of scale in 4mm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark alden Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Hi, Can i just confirm that this isnt the same picture Rail Express did for the OO version just repeated here? I ask because i was assured by Dave at Tower Models that Heljan had been climbing over the real thing to put right what was wrong on the OO version for the O gauge one. cheers Dave Hi, I don't know the pictures origins, I've never seen it before, just thought it looked like a good idea to see where somethings go wrong.... I'm guessing if Heljan scale up the OO loco then the problems just get bigger and more obvious?? Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nev16f Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I vote for sheen. Agree with those who say gloss doesn't work on smaller scale models. Cheers, Nev Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
43179 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 (edited) . If anyone has seen the full gloss Heljan 52's that are about at the moment, they look stupid, full gloss doesn't work on models. I might be the only one to disagree here I don't think the way Heljan have done the gloss finish works very well - but when its done correctly I think gloss looks fine on models - have a loot at Tims workbench where he's used kleer to give steam locos a gloss finish - it totally transforms them. There was a thread, maybe on the old RMweb , where someone have polished up some Bachmann Mk1s using T-cut. The Heljan gloss appears to be a varnish/laquer applied over the paint job, and always looks a bit thick and orange peely. If Dapol can do a nice smooth gloss/polished sort of finish I think it would look great - and make any subsequent weathering applied afterwards look even better. tfn Jon Edited November 13, 2012 by 43179 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Its probably going to be just as easy to t-cut the Western if Dapol use the same sort of paint as Bachmann do to get the same effect. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjnewitt Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I might be the only one to disagree here You're not alone Jon. I have to agree that the way Heljan have done the gloss finish is very good indeed. I brought one of their Gloss maroon Westerns before the Dapol model was announced and I think it's the most realistic finish I've come across on an RTR model. It looks like the real thing does ex-works. It is a bit orange peely but if it could be done a bit better it would be indeed look fantasic. T-cut is great but you have to be careful using it on thin RTR finishes. It does work wonders in bringing the paint to life but it also goes though it if you aren't paying close attention. I gave a Heljan Hymek the T-cut treatment and it came up really well but you had to give it a real polish to get a lovely finish on the paint and I did manage to go through to the plastic around the raised detail area in a number of places which was annoying. Not quite as annoying as the varnish I had to put over the now very soft paint but that's another story. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Might be a silly question/suggestion (and way off subject!), but has anyone tried car wax to get a shine?... one that might be varied along the length of the model... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted November 15, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 15, 2012 Might be a silly question/suggestion (and way off subject!), but has anyone tried car wax to get a shine?... one that might be varied along the length of the model... No. But I have perhaps perversely obtained some good results by applying weathering powders to dirty the locomotive then wiping areas off with a soft square of old T-shirt fabric. It seems to impart a decent polish to the paintwork while leaving dirt just where I want it. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Hi guys The First working test model was shown off at the Crewe show yesterday to traders. It also drew looks from the public as it ran on one of the layouts for a bit. Cheers Dave 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted November 18, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 18, 2012 Excellent news Dave. The last Hornby one has just been withdrawn here leaving only a handful of Heljans left in the fleet pending the arrival of yours. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted November 18, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2012 Dave what is the speaker fit in this loco please? Hopefully you have gone for the same arrangement as the 22 with a purpose built mounting for a specified speaker? Cheers Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Hi Phil, The Western, 73, 21, 29 etc, will all take the same speaker as the class 22 was designed for. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1030western musketeer Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Great news dave,looking forward to the release. richard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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