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Dapol 'Western'


Andy Y
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Hi guys,

 

i'll go with the consensus of opinion here, but i have tracked down the roof grey to this

 

http://www.e-paint.c...cQuery=BS 9-097

 

But it looks a shade darker than the pictures i can see although that might be film emulsion and light on the roof making it look like loco roof grey to my old eyes.

 

so if you are all agreed then the Green ones and the Early Maroon ones will get this 'admiralty grey'

Perhaps you speak to Precision Paints about this? They supply a paint specifically for the Western roof and they're colour matches are usualy pretty good. They might be able to point you in the right direction.

As for finish, i really hate gloss on a model so am loathed to do so, as our new 'blue, green and maroon, have a sheen to them like the Bachmann loco's.

Do Bachmann locos have a sheen to them? I can't say I've noticed. Mind you their paint doesn't tend to stay on my models for long. A vote for gloss here. Please, please, please, please no flat dull paint finishes on locos that are supposed to be ex works it looks completely wrong and you've spent so much time getting this right!

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Brian Haresnape does state that while they where deciding on the future livery of the class the green ones where turned out in standard BR green with mid grey roof. A an hour perusing Google images seems to show the green ones with lighter roofs than the darker grey of the Maroon livery.

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A vote for gloss here. Please, please, please, please no flat dull paint finishes on locos that are supposed to be ex works it looks completely wrong and you've spent so much time getting this right!

Part of the problem with a gloss finish is that reflections do no scale properly. Reflections from a 1:1 light source on a 1:76 model destroy the illusion we are trying to create of a looking at a real loco from 150 metres away instead of a model from 1 metre away.

 

The effect is even more pronounced in N gauge which is why I tend to finish my kit-built models with matt varnish, no sheen at all. I have built kits with a gloss finish before and they just look wrong.

 

Most RTR manufacturers seem to have settled on a satin sheen as a compromise and I think that is probably as shiny as it is wise to go. Any glossier and I will have to take my can of Testors to RTR stuff too. :O

Edited by Karhedron
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Brian Haresnape does state that while they where deciding on the future livery of the class the green ones where turned out in standard BR green with mid grey roof. A an hour perusing Google images seems to show the green ones with lighter roofs than the darker grey of the Maroon livery.

 

The roof panels on the maroon Westerns were closer to black than the mid grey used on the seven green ones ;)

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So the arrowed descriptions of colours on SL/SW/2451 were erased when the drawing was altered from maroon to blue.. HOWEVER, i forgot about the alterations table :)

 

01/01/1962

2" letters (A & B) below cab door to be painted black instead of cast aluminium. [an interesting cost saving i guess]

 

25/04/1962

Colour of roof hatches between bulkheads altered from Grey BSS 2660:9-094 to Black BSS 2660:9-103

 

14/05/1962

Drawing endorsed for locos D1006,7 & 8

 

27/09/1962

Colour of body changed from coach maroon to loco maroon.

Colour of buffer beams and stocks changed from yellow to black

ground colour of maker and depot plates changes from eggshell black to gloss black

yellow panel shown on nose and note re details added endorsed for locos D1000,02-04,09-73.

 

07/03/1967

body including roof now br rail blue, br std carriage crest altered to 2' 6" br symbol white. yellow panel altered to portion shown hatched [FYE style]

 

17/12/1968

RA disks removed. loco data panel added.

 

HTH. Research time free for the cause ;).

 

I like satin btw not Heljan gloss or Hornby stanier coach 'flat matt;.

 

Brought to you from the roll that produced an official diagram for a BR blue class 14 :)..

Edited by craigwelsh
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Hi guys,

 

i'll go with the consensus of opinion here, but i have tracked down the roof grey to this

 

http://www.e-paint.c...cQuery=BS 9-097

 

But it looks a shade darker than the pictures i can see although that might be film emulsion and light on the roof making it look like loco roof grey to my old eyes.

 

so if you are all agreed then the Green ones and the Early Maroon ones will get this 'admiralty grey'

 

As for finish, i really hate gloss on a model so am loathed to do so, as our new 'blue, green and maroon, have a sheen to them like the Bachmann loco's.

 

Tell me what you think and i'll go with the flow if there's enough comments for to justify it.

 

cheers

Dave

Sheen please Dave, gloss always looks out of scale in 4mm.
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Hi,

 

Can i just confirm that this isnt the same picture Rail Express did for the OO version just repeated here?

 

I ask because i was assured by Dave at Tower Models that Heljan had been climbing over the real thing to put right what was wrong on the OO version for the O gauge one.

cheers

Dave

 

 

Hi, I don't know the pictures origins, I've never seen it before, just thought it looked like a good idea to see where somethings go wrong....

I'm guessing if Heljan scale up the OO loco then the problems just get bigger and more obvious??

 

Mark

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. If anyone has seen the full gloss Heljan 52's that are about at the moment, they look stupid, full gloss doesn't work on models.

I might be the only one to disagree here

I don't think the way Heljan have done the gloss finish works very well - but when its done correctly I think gloss looks fine on models - have a loot at Tims workbench where he's used kleer to give steam locos a gloss finish - it totally transforms them. There was a thread, maybe on the old RMweb , where someone have polished up some Bachmann Mk1s using T-cut. The Heljan gloss appears to be a varnish/laquer applied over the paint job, and always looks a bit thick and orange peely. If Dapol can do a nice smooth gloss/polished sort of finish I think it would look great - and make any subsequent weathering applied afterwards look even better.

 

tfn

 

Jon

Edited by 43179
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I might be the only one to disagree here

You're not alone Jon. I have to agree that the way Heljan have done the gloss finish is very good indeed. I brought one of their Gloss maroon Westerns before the Dapol model was announced and I think it's the most realistic finish I've come across on an RTR model. It looks like the real thing does ex-works. It is a bit orange peely but if it could be done a bit better it would be indeed look fantasic.

 

T-cut is great but you have to be careful using it on thin RTR finishes. It does work wonders in bringing the paint to life but it also goes though it if you aren't paying close attention. I gave a Heljan Hymek the T-cut treatment and it came up really well but you had to give it a real polish to get a lovely finish on the paint and I did manage to go through to the plastic around the raised detail area in a number of places which was annoying. Not quite as annoying as the varnish I had to put over the now very soft paint but that's another story.

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Might be a silly question/suggestion (and way off subject!), but has anyone tried car wax to get a shine?... one that might be varied along the length of the model...

 

No. But I have perhaps perversely obtained some good results by applying weathering powders to dirty the locomotive then wiping areas off with a soft square of old T-shirt fabric. It seems to impart a decent polish to the paintwork while leaving dirt just where I want it.

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Dave what is the speaker fit in this loco please?

 

Hopefully you have gone for the same arrangement as the 22 with a purpose built mounting for a specified speaker?

 

Cheers

 

Phil

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