DapolDave Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Now I hadn't noticed that Nidge. Mind you I don't have my pics to refer to either at the moment. I bow before way superior knowledge. Cheers Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted February 13, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 13, 2013 Neil - the 'additional pillar' will be as per the real McCoy, internally it's quite substantial, particularly so when compared with most other BR diesel and electric cab interiors.... as I alluded to before, I think the larger than (model!) life size of Andy's photos back on page one of the thread might be exagerating it a bit, I'm sure when you see the 4mm machine in front of you it won't be so noticable, if at all.... 1015 ##758.jpg Dave - please don't lose heart over this - for my tuppence you've captured some wonderful childhood memories in three dimensional form and that takes some doing. Getting to this point has been an education in itself and I hope we can repeat the process with each new model you announce. Now thats a view on the sea wall I haven't seen before. Kennaway tunnel approaching. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I won't be closing the (my) topic off but I will suggest that they should consider their comments about the MR review before posting, I'm surprised by that considering you chose to post in my review that you promoted MR and that you'd be doing a full review (inferring I'd missed information). That's not particularly fair I'm afraid. (Andy's quote - I could not transfer it for some reason)I'm not sure I see your point. I was merely promoting Model Rail but I'll refrain from doing so in future unless it's under the Model Rail thread. I certainly wasn't implying that you had missed information (you'd seen a review model and at that time I had not, so I had no idea whether you had missed information or not) I had certainly not intended to be unfair. My own reference to unfairness related to Adrian's post, in which the suggestion that reviews are somehow 'skewed' to create controversy really surprised me, as we have been friends for many years. However, I sense that I am in a hostile environment here as regards this particular model, so I'll say no more. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
owentherail Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Well I'm still getting a few, by the amount of Heljan westerns about 2nd hand at the mo I think quite a few others will be too so don't worry too Much Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 (edited) Now I hadn't noticed that Nidge. Mind you I don't have my pics to refer to either at the moment. I bow before way superior knowledge. Cheers Dave Thanks Dave but as is often the case, my 'accrued knowledge' is just that - years and years of looking, checking, absorbing, checking, looking, and looking again. I can tell you that I've learned quite a bit about my favourite class from this thread too . By a rather nice quirk of fate, one of the current occupants of those houses on Marine Parade at Dawlish is author and all round top Diesel Hydraulic chap Hugh Dady... and a valued source of the aforementioned 'accrued knowledge'! Edited February 13, 2013 by Rugd1022 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon020 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I want to add my support here. I've yet to see the actual model but it takes a lot to move this diesel electric enthusiast to consider anything differrent. My father tells me that only once did he take me over to Paddington where he wanted me to see something different to the usual KingsX and St P fare... I stood alongside a Western and in the words of a 6 year old stated "no, I don't like it... it's not a Deltic!". Ok, so they were apparently my words, but I'll not try to defend them... they were what they were. But this model has now shown what can be done... it's a game changer! And this must stand as a future benchmark against which all models will be measured. I've only ordered one (sorry), but then I believe in quality rather than quantity (and I'm limited in space)... but I'm really looking forward to sitting this with my Deltic... and "in work" 47. One aim of this hobby "can be" to push the boundaries; I've strived to achieve this with reworking exisitng RTR models; with this offering, there doesn't look as though there will be very little to do. So, I think the boundaries of what can be achived in RTR have been pushed. Well done all concerned! 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I'm genuinely amazed that a positive review can solicit such embarrassingly unprofessional and derisory commentary from so many people on RMweb. Moreover, from so many people who haven't actually read the review, but because there's a possible very, very minor negative, look to undermine that article regardless. How is it that people post in this thread "their support" for a company, which scored 92% in what was a very positive, balanced, fair and very complimentary review, and then immediately twist it round so that Model Rail and Chris Leigh look unreasonable in their one, single real piece of criticism in what was a very positive article? A few years ago, RMweb readers might have been told to read the review, and make their own minds up, or if they were to "criticise the review" that they'd be encouraged to do so constructively, and in a manner which befits a proper written response to the magazine in question. That seems to have been completely thrown out of the window today. The public castigation of Chris Leigh and Model Rail above is frankly undeserved, and wholly unprofessional. 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bont Y Gra Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 What's happening with this thread....is it jealousy? It's been a positive example of what can be acheived when all sides of the industry cooperate and now the thread is being ambushed by naysayers who can't wait to spread their nit picking negativity! Imho, what Dapol Dave started with the Western should become benchmark practice for those that manufacture and commission rtr models and should be applauded by all. This model and the path taken to reach the final article is breath of fresh air and I see nothing but positive reasons for supporting the whole project. I have 4 on order and no doubt there will be more. I have nothing but thanks and admiration for everyone involved. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 (edited) The public castigation of Chris Leigh and Model Rail above is frankly undeserved, and wholly unprofessional. I have to agree - Both Dapol Dave and Chris leigh are both doing their jobs to the highest standard that they are able. Dave produces a model and sends it for a review and it is Chris' job to pick up on the positives and negatives. The treatment of Chris Leigh today has been an absolute disgrace in my opinion. Jim Edited February 13, 2013 by jim s-w 19 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 What's happening with this thread....is it jealousy? It's been a positive example of what can be acheived when all sides of the industry cooperate and now the thread is being ambushed by naysayers who can't wait to spread their nit picking negativity! What are you on about? Point me to where someone has actually been rude, defamatory or genuinely castigated Dapol's Western in this thread. Quote it. I can quote about a dozen posts either outright having a go at a magazine which scored it 92% for being too negative. Think about it. Too negative, but gave 92% as a score to the model. This is frankly becoming utterly bonkers now and I'm amazed at the amount of sensationalism being spread. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 one thing ive noticed over the years, is that when a model that has some incorrect shape or features has been on the market for a long period of time, then one that is correct comes along, because the incorrect model is so engrained in the minds,some people cant seem to accept the better model. anyway heres a nice shot.. D1037 at Widney Manor by geoff7918, on Flickr 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I don't normally discuss reviews but since the comment about the brake rigging was actually mine, I'm happy to defend my thoughts. Frankly, for the few hours that I had the model in my possession, the loose brake rigging drove me nuts! Some had already fallen off in the box. In refitting one bit, another would fall off. After running it, I found brake rigging on my layout and - 24 hours later, I found a piece on the stairs leading up to the layout. The model was on loan from Dapol - hence the fact that we didn't fit the nameplates etc and in the circumstances I didn't feel that I should glue the brake gear. I found it fiddly to refit and once refitted it would remain loose. Sorry, but if a model is going to be sent for review, the reviewers comments have to be accepted as valid findings. True enough, though some of us remember your dismantling and attempted re-assembly of the Bachmann Standard Five, which then made it onto the front cover of Model Rail with the bodyshell still askew..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted February 13, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 13, 2013 What's happening with this thread....is it jealousy? It's been a positive example of what can be acheived when all sides of the industry cooperate and now the thread is being ambushed by naysayers who can't wait to spread their nit picking negativity! This is a common comment which recurs when any criticism is aired about a new model. I'd much rather know about an error so I can make an educated attempt at rectifying it, as personally I'm not happy with "from the box" models- they are normally personalised in some way.Many of us have engaged fully with Dapol throughout this project (Nidge/rugd1022 and Mark Humphrys in particular), but all have provided constructive criticism into the debate. We now have a finished project which has captured the finest BR diesel (biased I know) almost perfectly shape wise, but would benefit from from minor attention albeit new head codes, nameplates, dabs of glue on brake rigging or lots of other minor modelling details which keep us going these long winter evenings. I don't agree that there has been nit picking - just continued dialogue on the model which has been the spirit of the previous Dapol Western thread. Neil 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I've just had a quick read through this thread and am...... Hmmmn..... perturbed......? Ok, I've not read Dibbers review, but I have had the Dapol Western, "in hand", at the Warley show. I know NOTHING about Westerns and have no need for one although I WANT one! If I can "strip it off the bones?"..... The Heljan one has a big frown on the cab roof apparently. Ok, I can see this. The Hornby one..... well, swing link buffer beam says it all for me. The Lima one..... Brilliant, (apart from the motor). I saw the Dapol one and to be frank, was blown away. If it has faults, I'm glad to hear about them and if possible, I'd rectify them. Otherwise, I'm a North Eastern bloke who's looking for an excuse to have one because it's so good. I had the same problem with my comments on the Heljan DP2. All in all, a good model, but when I found something wrong, and voiced my opinion, I was proper slagged off by some on here. The fact is, Dibber has found something "wrong" with the model but it's still the best we've had. In development, Dapol Dave has been asking for comments and has acted on the responses. The pair of them still seem to be good friends, who are we to spoil this? Crivvens, we'll be back to the dark ages of 37's with 31's bogies if we keep on at this rate. As is the case with me, soap box now stepped down from... Cheers. Sean. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 nice colour shot recentley uploaded to flickr, D1007 Cardiff general 1969, maroon syp on a short van train. http://www.flickr.com/photos/68861278@N03/8469811883/in/contacts/ 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1056WesternSultan Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Flippin' 'eck! Wish I hadn't mentioned the buffers now! Really cant wait to get my hands on D1062 which will operate on my railway along with my fleet of Lima and Heljan Westerns which are in a variety of liveries. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Knowles Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I won't be closing the (my) topic off but I will suggest that they should consider their comments about the MR review before posting, I'm surprised by that considering you chose to post in my review that you promoted MR and that you'd be doing a full review (inferring I'd missed information). That's not particularly fair I'm afraid. (Andy's quote - I could not transfer it for some reason) I'm not sure I see your point. I was merely promoting Model Rail but I'll refrain from doing so in future unless it's under the Model Rail thread. I certainly wasn't implying that you had missed information (you'd seen a review model and at that time I had not, so I had no idea whether you had missed information or not) I had certainly not intended to be unfair. My own reference to unfairness related to Adrian's post, in which the suggestion that reviews are somehow 'skewed' to create controversy really surprised me, as we have been friends for many years. However, I sense that I am in a hostile environment here as regards this particular model, so I'll say no more. CHRIS LEIGH Chris, I am sure you know that I have no axe to grind with you and I apologise unreservedly for seeming unfair in my comments - I did not even know that you were the author of the review. It's a pity that the review was not available for everyone to read before it became such a hot topic in this forum. My comments were driven entirely by the fact that I have seen and held this model at various shows. To me it is so far ahead of anything else I have seen 'out of the box', including the Class 22, that it did seem slightly unreasonable to knock it down to 92% just because some of the detail parts require secure fixing. That said, I admit that I have not yet read the review and it may be that there are more factors that led to the final 'score'. I am prepared to stand corrected when I eventually see the review. None of this stops me commending the work done by Dave and Dapol in raising the bar to a level which will hopefully be aspired to by other manufacturers. I, for one, can't wait for delivery day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted February 14, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 14, 2013 nice colour shot recentley uploaded to flickr, D1007 Cardiff general 1969, maroon syp on a short van train. http://www.flickr.com/photos/68861278@N03/8469811883/in/contacts/ Brilliant photo stream there Mike. Nothing like a bit of hydraulic photo therapy to cool down this thread, just smashing pics.Neil 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudley Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I've read through pages 1 > 7 of this topic and have started to lose interest, however I do have one question for Dapol Dave, if I may? - and I hope it's not been raised already. Is there any chance of painted/ unpainted Western bodies being sold for those of us with Heljan 52's please? It could be a big market. Without this I wonder how low the secondhand price of a Heljan 52 will drop to? Cheers, D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Hi Dudley, No, sorry. I'm not keen on diluting the model at all in this way. cheers Dave 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
campaigner Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I've not read the review, nor have I seen the finished product in the "flesh" so I'm in no position to comment really. Being a Western nut I will definitely be buying at least one of them, more if I'm really taken up with them. But I think the way this model has evolved (if that's the right word) is a tribute to Dapol for their willingness to listen and co-operate with the customers. As for the 92% rating I really can't say, but if that's more than the NRM Deltic got, this has to be one stunning model! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
0O00 Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Apologies if this question has already been asked (sorry but I can't be bothered to read through 11 pages of this thread - the photos do it for me!) but will Dapol be fitting sound chips to these models at some point in the future? I think I will be ordering a Kernow special :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 (edited) "It's a pity that the review was not available for everyone to read before it became such a hot topic in this forum." How could it be? Its in a magazine thats a rival to the owners of this forum. We have had topics here asking for discussion on content in BRM where that content wasn't supplied so its hardly going to happen that content from a different mag will be. Mags exist to be sold, the fact that one is linked to this forum is just a 'nice to have' for them. I haven't seen the review either but since Dave brought it up I will repeat my question regarding the fragile parts raised in the review. What are they and on the model what are they made from and how are they attached. Cheers Jim Edited February 14, 2013 by jim s-w 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Hi Jim, i'm not sure to be honest. The lift rings arent fragile at all (etched brass) but are losable and available as spares. The nameplates arent fragile (Shawplan). The replacement valances arent. The brake rigging comes off and is an interference fit to allow re-wheeling, so i suppose you could say thay the connection betwen it and the bogie is 'fragile' but it wont break as the plastic is too malliable. Air pipes etc are very strong but non brittle plastic. cheers Dave 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Hi 0O00, no we wont be producing sound fitted versions as we are not big enough a company to manage that project. however i am putting the WLA together with Ian (Leggomanbiffo) from this parish to record probably the ultimate sound of a Wezzie for you to purchase from Ian. cheers Dave 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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