New & Improved Class 33

[37114]

My thoughts are:

 

- Good on RE for putting up some cash for this and sorting out what has been a glaring issue which Heljan had previously been reluctant to address

- The price of £100 per unit seems reasonable bearing in mind price rises due to inflation/ rising production costs, and also should note the specification is improved over the current Heljan offering.

- 100% of my fleet is BR Blue, so there is no wasy I want a mixed livery pack, likewise I am sure many steam era modellers won't want a green/blue pack. I can see the logic for later years of mixed packs (i.e. NSE and Dutch for example)

- I don't need 2 class 33's, but would think there will be a healthy demand for the second loco, and would wager you could sell them on ebay for more than £100, so 2 loco packs is not really an issue.

 

 

 

 

[Horsetan]

....if Heljan were to release the improved 33/0 .....

 

....which they won't:

 

.....It is clear Heljan would never had done all this themselves, these will only be available from Rail Exclusive direct unless sold as secondhand and there are no plans for Heljan to release the revised locos under their own name.......

[Ed-farms]

I gave in to temptation last night and ordered a pair of blue un's with sound. I will have a use for both of them so I won't be splitting and selling.

 

I am guessing both models will have sound so £400 for a pair of sound fitted models is a good price to me. Sadly don't think I will want more but you never know in the future. Good on Rail Express for doing this.

[Pugsley]

This I find astonishing. Unless Rail Exclusive will own the tooling, why on earth would Heljan NOT produce models using it some time in the future.

I think you've just answered your own question there....

[97403_Ixion]

Hi all,

 

this one has certainly caused a stir

 

I think Jamie's response was 'fair'. There are plenty of reasons for which Rail Exclusive or their partners in the project may have that require twin packs to be offered but, rightly or not rightly so, we, the customer, may not be able to be party to those reasons (legal or commercial). We still have the right to disagree and feel disappointed. I would strongly prefer to see single loco options too ( ) and cannot see the immediate benefit of enforcing sales of twin packs... but that's just me.

 

Who owns the tooling? We can all make guesses as to the contractual ownership but I would imagine that only Rail Exclusive and Heljan know this.

 

I applaud Rail Exclusive recognising people's concerns by opening up a Facebook account for people to swap purchase options - is this a first by a commissioning body? It is up to people doing so to make their arrangements risk free - perhaps request a half payment, up front?

 

As for price - well, ~£100 per loco seemed high to me but then this is a special venture. The RRP is between £79 and £89 for Heljan 33s. As others have said before, we are used to getting discount... but this is not usually the case with specials or limited editions. Perhaps £10 is the price we have to suffer to get a more appealing model.

 

I am sure we all wish Rail Exclusive every success with the project and hope everyone gets a model of what they want (be it one, two or more, with/without sound!). Personally, I would like to know which models are the most popular - I rather like the DRS, 'Dutch' and Construction Sectors B) .

 

How do you like yours?

 

Cheers,

Ixion.

[Garry D100]

I think we are starting to decend into a perpetual circle or moaning and critising here.

 

We are looking at it from a hobby purchase point of view.

Rail Express look at it as a business venture, one that has to work and has to pay its way.

They have taken the decision to do the locos in twin packs as they feel thats the best way to do it.

Thats the way it is.

 

The decision process is easy.

 

Do I want them?

Yes

Can I afford them

Yes

Buy them

 

 

Do I want them?

Yes

Can I afford them

No

Sorry, but thats life, most of us have been there at one time or another.

 

 

Do I want them?

No

Then you probably should'nt be reading this thread

 

No doubt my comments will upset someone but everyone else is voicing an opinion here, so I am too.

 

In summary , take it or leave it, but lets stop going on about it

[97403_Ixion]

Hi Garry D100,

 

my point, exactly

 

Now, who is getting what? Which is most popular? Where do they fit in to people's layouts?

 

Let's hear these sorts of comments from now on, please

 

Cheers,

Ixion.

[Pennine MC]

 

The decision process is easy.

 

...

 

Do I want them?

No

Then you probably should'nt be reading this thread

 

 

Well, I am

[Garry D100]

Well, I am

 

How dare you.....

 

 

Now, who is getting what? Which is most popular? Where do they fit in to people's layouts?

I'm going for the BR Blue pack.

My only decision now is if to go with the sound option or not.

 

Modelling the North West and into North wales 33/0 will be a nice variation to the home fleet.

[The Fatadder]

I am getting a Dutch loco which will be re numbered as 33030 or 33025 and will have the names removed

[Garry D100]

I am getting a Dutch loco which will be re numbered as 33030 or 33025 and will have the names removed

The names are not printed on.

 

Quote "the names will not be printed allowing other class members in this livery to be easily modelled.

A complimentary selection of stainless steel nameplates will include ALL the ‘aircraft-themed’ names"

[Dan Griffin]

personally speaking, whilst phil isdoing a great job introducing this, i think that with all the 'wish lists' ect apparently crying out for a 73, maybe a punt into a all new loco like that, 0r 67/59 may have a better gamble? with all the 33's that have already been sold, are people going to replace there already chipped/modified/personalised models for a twin pack? and will ebay be flooded with unwanted helajn class 33's? im not having a go as it IS good news for crompton fans but i just feel it could have been a better suprise. will await to see the result.

[WhiteRoseRambler]

I fancy the Blue set although as a modeller of the ER around Yorkshire I might have to have an occasional Railtour from 'darn sarf' to justify! In fact what do I need to justify, I've just bought a 4-Cep 'cause I liked it.

 

The very first loco I ever got was a Lima Class 33 which I then supplemented with the Lima 33027 'Earl Mountbatten of Burma'. I think I might make my own but notice that there is scope for a grey-roofed version on the future list - would that include the 'Burmas' I wonder?

 

Chris

[spamcan61]

personally speaking, whilst phil isdoing a great job introducing this, i think that with all the 'wish lists' ect apparently crying out for a 73, maybe a punt into a all new loco like that, 0r 67/59 may have a better gamble?

 

Trouble is, all of those would require starting from scratch, whereas with the 33 the mechanism and most of the basic body shape are already available.

[Pugsley]

As for price - well, ~£100 per loco seemed high to me but then this is a special venture. The RRP is between £79 and £89 for Heljan 33s.

Considering that this is supposed to be the 'definitive' 33/0, then I don't think it's an unreasonable price, especially compared to, as you pointed out, the Heljan RRP for the current models.

 

It's good to see Rail Exclusive putting their money where their mouth is and providing us with an accurate model. I must admit I won't be buying any as the Heljan offering doesn't offend me that much and I have all I want, but I wish them every success.

 

Especially if it leads to a 73 to go with it..

[The Fatadder]

The names are not printed on.

 

Quote "the names will not be printed allowing other class members in this livery to be easily modelled.

A complimentary selection of stainless steel nameplates will include ALL the ‘aircraft-themed’ names"

 

Missed that, hopefully the depot plaques and arrows are not painted on either...

[James]

and most of the basic body shape are already available.

Which will make no difference whatsoever towards costs! Either a new tool is required or the old one is modified, either way it's still a good few thousand.

[BR Blue]

The more I think about it the better it is. The current 33/0 is not up to scratch and to fix it costs time and money. Here is a definitive 33/0 for £100, only slightly more than the current model.

 

The sound option is £100, and this is for an ESU decoder and sound which will be the new v4 version. Of note is that Heljan have never done factory fitted sound before. The sound option offered with the Rail Expresses Bachmann 37/5s was sourced from SWD and you had to install it yourself. (I did not have a problem with that as the price was very good)

 

I am getting more and more tempted by the blue and the construction pairs. I would be in the market for 33008 too, if they made it.

 

As the saying goes, the only way to deal with temptation, is to yield to it.

 

 

As regards other models that could have been done instead, well clearly the fact that a good chassis already exists for the 33 will have reduced the costs considerably. If this ever does become a regular Heljan release, it will be £100 at least by that time anyway. The other options mentioned were 59, 73 and 67. The last of those 3, I would not be surprised to hear announced later this year.

 

Another good year for diesel modellers, the gaps are disappearing and the models at the lower end of the quality scale are being upgraded.

[spamcan61]

Which will make no difference whatsoever towards costs! Either a new tool is required or the old one is modified, either way it's still a good few thousand.

 

They've presumably got the CAD data for the existing 33/0 body tooling, which can be edited. Yes the physical tooling itself will cost the same either way, but the engineering time and hence cost starting from existing mostly accurate tooling data for a 33 has to be less than that for a 73 or whatever they'd have to go and measure a real one and start from scratch.

[lapford34102]

Slightly baffled at the "indentical twins" approach for all the packs though there may be a very good reason for this. Personally would have thought plain green + green syp would have been quite well received as would the 2 style of "dutch" livery; grey/yellow and plain grey. But then what do I know and I expect they've done their research carefully. I would have also thought a blue pre-tops and green FYE might have been an option. I knowough they've said the green FYE livery is not very popular but Heljan obviously thought it was worth redoing. Perhaps in time it'll be heavily discounted like some of the others.

 

It's good to see Rail Exclusive putting their money where their mouth is and providing us with an accurate model. I must admit I won't be buying any as the Heljan offering doesn't offend me that much and I have all I want

 

Martin's comment neatly sums up my position on this though the cost has also had an influence. £200 is a not insignificant percentage of my annual modelling budget. Not a moan but just putting in my 5p's worth. Suspect Rail Exc are looking at this to see what the reaction is.

 

Stu

[James]

They've presumably got the CAD data for the existing 33/0 body tooling, which can be edited.

And presumably the 33/1 with the better roof profile - and, yes, if it's in the right format for the new product it will have saved time and money.

 

I made the point because many people on here seem to use the phrase 'retool' without really understanding the time, money or work involved with such a proceedure. And not knowing or realising the difference between modifying existing toos and manufacturing new ones. So hopefully no offence was taken

[spamcan61]

And presumably the 33/1 with the better roof profile - and, yes, if it's in the right format for the new product it will have saved time and money.

 

I made the point because many people on here seem to use the phrase 'retool' without really understanding the time, money or work involved with such a proceedure. And not knowing or realising the difference between modifying existing toos and manufacturing new ones. So hopefully no offence was taken

 

None taken : yes, you're probably right, easier starting from the 33/1 and backdating then transplanting the 33/1 roof on to the 33/0, and still having to do the other improvements anyway.

[SRman]

Having bought several (cheaper!) Heljan 33/0s and modified them to disguise the roof profile - with some success, I think - I am still very tempted by the green ones, particularly because they will have the earlier exhaust port arrangement.

 

The price sounds expensive when you first hear it but, as others have said, it is not that much dearer than the standard Heljan issues at full retail price anyway. Even with sound, the price actually works out as being reasonable, at around £100 for the loco and £100 for the additional sound, per loco. Having said that, to have to buy two per pack does strain the budget a bit; I'm not sure what my situation will be by November.

 

In short. I'm very tempted but still not sure whether to take the plunge.

 

One thing I do know though: I wish the venture every success.

[craigwelsh]

The twin packs might be unfortunate for the modeller but they would save some overheads for Rail Exclusives. Think of the saving in postage, packaging and credit card fees as well as the time for processing - you only need half as much. It clearly worked in the past anyway with the 37 packs etc so it makes sense for them to halve the amount of 'units' needed to be shifted to pay off the tooling again.

 

I would assume in this case Rail Exclusives will own the tooling as Heljan wouldn't benefit from taking it on afterwards as they already had a 33/0 that could sell. The 37 variants from Bachmann were different in that it was something completely new.

 

The interesting bit about this for someone not interested in 33's is whether Heljan will now make any similar improvements to their own future models with etched parts added bringing them more in line with recent Bachmann/ Hornby releases.

 

Now imagine the Western had got the 'fixed' body treatment, possibly would have been an accurate model cheaper than Dapol are proposing based off something already 95% there.

[34040]

Trouble is, all of those would require starting from scratch, whereas with the 33 the mechanism and most of the basic body shape are already available.

 

As I already have 7 of the Heljan models and have learned to live with their shortcomings, I am unlikely to trade these in for new improved ones. What might persuade me to part with some shekels is if the revised body was made available to fit to the existing chassis.

 

As Heljan are good at charging for replacement parts to cover for their own mistakes (remember the wheels), then they may hit on this idea, once they have completed the Rail Exclusive order.

 

Dave