RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted February 18, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2020 2 hours ago, gordon s said: I'm sure the Romans would have had it sorted in weeks.... The Chinese in days! Mike. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_H Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 6 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said: The Chinese in days! Mike. Haven't the Chinese offered to build HS2? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted February 18, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2020 8 minutes ago, Ian_H said: Haven't the Chinese offered to build HS2? Are you implying they might offer to finish ET too? 1 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_H Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 13 minutes ago, Rowsley17D said: Are you implying they might offer to finish ET too? I understand that is a possibility but the Chinese like complexed systems and want to make ET a terminus station at the end of a folded figure of eight on a multi level system …. Something similar to ET mk 1. Mr Wu Lee said they could do it in the summer months while Gordon is engaged in more physical/outdoor pursuits. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 18, 2020 Author Share Posted February 18, 2020 Mmmmm....A folded figure of eight/dog bone that goes round the room three times with two reverse loops. Loads of hidden pointwork and gradients galore. Let me think about it...... Stage 1 complete and soon be time for a beer... Now, you're telling me that if I soak the plan in IPA, the trains will run across straight across this section and I'll have clean wheels forever?.......At least that will allow me to test run stuff again tonight. Good job I'm tall enough to take these aerial shots. Health and Safety wouldn't allow me to stand on an old chair... 10 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Denbridge said: Ah, but the closer tolerances achieved around the crossing area of turnouts make all the difference visually and vastly improve running through said turnouts. The whole point and necessity of a model railway "standard" is that it is a set of dimensions that ensure 100% interchangeability and 100% perfect running through its turnouts. It doesn't matter whether the standard is "coarse" or "fine" or prototypical. They all should work perfectly or they aren't a standard. The problems arise if and when, someone "breaks" a standard by changing one critical dimension (or its tolerance) and not also correctly altering all the others necessary to compensate and create a new 100% working standard. Even if it then works OK, stuff created to a new standard generally isn't interchangeable with stuff built to its predecessor. So there is no such thing as better running for one standard over another. If there are running problems, then the fault is normally failure to adhere to the standard by inaccurate construction, or substitution of a non-standard compliant component, or something breaking or moving out of it's correct alignment. Andy Edited February 18, 2020 by Andy Reichert added missing cause 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwordsmith Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 55 minutes ago, Ian_H said: Haven't the Chinese offered to build HS2? Rumour has it, the only problem is they want to build it to metre gauge! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwordsmith Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 11 minutes ago, Andy Reichert said: The whole point and necessity of a model railway "standard" is that it is a set of dimensions that ensure 100% interchangeability and 100% perfect running through its turnouts. It doesn't matter whether the standard is "coarse" or "fine" or prototypical. They all should work perfectly or they aren't a standard. The problems arise if and when, someone "breaks" a standard by changing one critical dimension (or its tolerance) and not also correctly altering all the others necessary to compensate and create a new 100% working standard. Even if it then works OK, stuff created to a new standard generally isn't interchangeable with stuff built to its predecessor. So there is no such thing as better running for one standard over another. If there are running problems, then the fault is normally failure to adhere to the standard by inaccurate construction, or substitution of a non-standard compliant component, or something breaking or moving out of it's correct alignment. Andy Surely if a someone deviates from a standard it must then be described as non-standard? Wasn't this the problem with so many 'standard' engines? In IT terms as soon as you move away from the standard, it becomes known as proprietary or 'stand-alone'. I'm sure that later sentiment is something we all feel from time to time! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denbridge Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 3 hours ago, Andy Reichert said: The whole point and necessity of a model railway "standard" is that it is a set of dimensions that ensure 100% interchangeability and 100% perfect running through its turnouts. It doesn't matter whether the standard is "coarse" or "fine" or prototypical. They all should work perfectly or they aren't a standard. The problems arise if and when, someone "breaks" a standard by changing one critical dimension (or its tolerance) and not also correctly altering all the others necessary to compensate and create a new 100% working standard. Even if it then works OK, stuff created to a new standard generally isn't interchangeable with stuff built to its predecessor. So there is no such thing as better running for one standard over another. If there are running problems, then the fault is normally failure to adhere to the standard by inaccurate construction, or substitution of a non-standard compliant component, or something breaking or moving out of it's correct alignment. Andy I don't know why you're on your high horse, especially since you are wrong. The simple fact is that the standards used on Eastwood are far superior to the brmsb dimensions used for many years. By narrowing the gauge through the crossings and closing the gaps, running is superior as is the appearance. I built some turnouts to try it out and will use these standards from now on. I've achieved the kind of smooth running over turnouts I achieved in my EM days. Although I don't use them much, modern rtr wheels with the correct back to backs also run fine on this superior track. 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denbridge Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 4 hours ago, Andy Reichert said: The whole point and necessity of a model railway "standard" is that it is a set of dimensions that ensure 100% interchangeability and 100% perfect running through its turnouts. It doesn't matter whether the standard is "coarse" or "fine" or prototypical. They all should work perfectly or they aren't a standard. The problems arise if and when, someone "breaks" a standard by changing one critical dimension (or its tolerance) and not also correctly altering all the others necessary to compensate and create a new 100% working standard. Even if it then works OK, stuff created to a new standard generally isn't interchangeable with stuff built to its predecessor. So there is no such thing as better running for one standard over another. If there are running problems, then the fault is normally failure to adhere to the standard by inaccurate construction, or substitution of a non-standard compliant component, or something breaking or moving out of it's correct alignment. Andy Triang super 4 was used by many people for years. By your reckoning, perhaps we should have stuck with that 'standard' instead, track has steadily evolved and improved. Perhaps in your world we should have also stuck with 3rd rail pickup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted February 18, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2020 Well, you are both right, but also at right angles to each other. Get a room, or a boxing rink! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted February 18, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 18, 2020 8 hours ago, Oldddudders said: If it's any consolation, I once failed to get a job because at interview I couldn't come up with a clever solution to the two-track capacity issue over Welwyn Viaduct. That was more than 30 years ago, and has it changed? There will have been a lot of folk in the same position Ian! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post gordon s Posted February 18, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) Andy, I have asked before, but ET is a ‘gauge wars free zone’ and I don’t want my thread descending into arguments about choices of track. I’m very happy with my choice as I’m sure you are with yours. Please just respect those differences and let’s just enjoy the hobby. I want this thread to be a gentle diary of my endless attempts to build something that will bring me untold pleasure in my later years of life. Discussion and disagreement of track standards just devalues this journey, so I really would appreciate it if you could have those discussions elsewhere. Sometimes ignorance is bliss........ Edited February 18, 2020 by gordon s 9 28 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted February 18, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 18, 2020 10 hours ago, gordon s said: Nothing that some double decking wouldn't cure. .... I'm sure the Romans would have had it sorted in weeks.... One of the proposed solutions for Welwyn by RailTrack was in fact double decking the original structure, others included a further parallel viaduct, both schemes with new tunnels, and the maximising of the Hertford loop capacity. These were proposals outlined in local Welwyn and Digswell public consultations , and I might have the pamphlets somewhere. None came to pass at the time, however Stevenage is currently having additional suburban capacity built directly linked to the loop line. And yep, plug first, it’s usually the quickest fix 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 18, 2020 Author Share Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) Well, I’ll be blowed.....Fact is stranger than fiction..... I can just see one track in each level. Stretch it a bit and widen it a bit and it could become a huge tourist attraction....... https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=nerja+aqueduct&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjfm9SAoNznAhUWSxUIHbZuCIkQ_AUoAnoECA8QBA&biw=1112&bih=697 Edited February 18, 2020 by gordon s 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 19 hours ago, gordon s said: Another one to watch out for is 'stale' petrol. Leave a tankful in the mower for a few months over winter and somehow it looses its ability to to explode. A few years ago I got caught out by that one. Once I emptied the small tank and refilled with new stuff, it started quite happily. One shot of this stuff https://www.screwfix.com/p/no-nonsense-fuel-additive-250ml/9631X?kpid=9631X&ds_kid=92700048793290406&ds_rl=1249410&gclid=CjwKCAiA1rPyBRAREiwA1UIy8PDX8lYxXDq9cOW2X4bl8S43AqG5gg_L_CT224hGuwUMnfBu8eReDhoC0bgQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds or similar, before putting away for winter, it'll be fine. No wasted fuel. Trust me, it works. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted February 19, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 19, 2020 17 hours ago, Ian_H said: Haven't the Chinese offered to build HS2? Only if the terminus is relocated to Beijing. Mike. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 19, 2020 Author Share Posted February 19, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, JeffP said: One shot of this stuff https://www.screwfix.com/p/no-nonsense-fuel-additive-250ml/9631X?kpid=9631X&ds_kid=92700048793290406&ds_rl=1249410&gclid=CjwKCAiA1rPyBRAREiwA1UIy8PDX8lYxXDq9cOW2X4bl8S43AqG5gg_L_CT224hGuwUMnfBu8eReDhoC0bgQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds or similar, before putting away for winter, it'll be fine. No wasted fuel. Trust me, it works. Thanks Jeff, I'll pick some up as I have to go to Screwfix to pick up some wood filler and Wago connectors. We have a branch just minutes away, so they get most of my custom for odds and sods. Golf is cancelled again as the course is still waterlogged. Am I bovvered? Not in the slightest as I having fun in the warm. Order of the day will be to finish the board extension and then build the new crossover. Still testing and having a ball..... Edit: Meant to say I booked a ticket to go down to Taunton for the RMweb get together on the 26th April. Hopefully I'll be able to put faces to names who have followed ET all these years. Looking at the list of layouts and their builders there are a few names I recognise..... Edited February 19, 2020 by gordon s 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 14 hours ago, Denbridge said: I don't know why you're on your high horse, especially since you are wrong. The simple fact is that the standards used on Eastwood are far superior to the brmsb dimensions used for many years. By narrowing the gauge through the crossings and closing the gaps, running is superior as is the appearance. I built some turnouts to try it out and will use these standards from now on. I've achieved the kind of smooth running over turnouts I achieved in my EM days. Although I don't use them much, modern rtr wheels with the correct back to backs also run fine on this superior track. 00SF does have its own set of published standards. The fact that most users use gauge widened plain track for convenience and cost is another matter which is an individual choice, exactly the same as which type of track construction you use. Its simply a solution to a problem caused by the model railway trade early last century. Has nothing to do with the enjoyment of seeing trains running through track which bears a close resemblance to the prototype 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted February 19, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 19, 2020 I don't care about argumento about standards.... What other testing have you done Gordon? Any more locos appearing out of long forgotten boxes? It's magic when you take a long unused loco out of its storage. A quick squirt of GT85 and..off it goes.. must try out some of my C&O stock Baz 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted February 19, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 19, 2020 36 minutes ago, Barry O said: I don't care about argumento about standards.... What other testing have you done Gordon? Any more locos appearing out of long forgotten boxes? It's magic when you take a long unused loco out of its storage. A quick squirt of GT85 and..off it goes.. must try out some of my C&O stock Baz Callender & Oban? Mike. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted February 19, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 19, 2020 Close but..no cigar..... Chesapeake and Ohio with the mighty Allegheny H8 articulated locos.... Baz 3 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 19, 2020 Author Share Posted February 19, 2020 (edited) GT85? Good grief I use that on my electric golf trolley....... Today has all been about making a board a few inches wider. Got there in the end, but one of those jobs that should have been a bit easier than it was. All fitted and wood filler applied to the gaps between the pieces of ply. Sanded down and just awaiting cork strip. Happy with the finished product, so I should be in good shape for my Friday work day. I cannot believe how productive the last few months have been. Meanwhile on a sheet of glass not far from here, a new crossover is taking shape..... Golf beckons tomorrow on a lads day out. 24 of us on an away day in Hampshire. Weather forecast is wet again, so I could be home early. The days of golf in any weather have long gone....... Cup of tea has arrived and just getting warmed up for Spurs tonight..... Come on you Spurs! Edited February 19, 2020 by gordon s 8 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 5BarVT Posted February 19, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 19, 2020 3 hours ago, gordon s said: GT85? Good grief I use that on my electric golf trolley....... And I use it on my bike, squeaky door hinges . . . and now it seems, in the modelling room too! Thanks Baz. I have some old 70s Hornby that hasn’t been run since late 90s so I can try it on them. Any idea if it’s OK on Hornby and Lima plastics? Paul. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted February 19, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 19, 2020 On 18/02/2020 at 12:12, JeffP said: Mower? In February? And why not. 5 1 2 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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