Eastwood Town - A tribute to Gordon's modelling.

[gordon s]

Now look what you’ve done......

 

 

 

[gordon s]

One of the plusses of being in hospital is that you have plenty of time to think and I've never really been happy with either the shed facility or traverser storage on ET. Whilst you can scribble away to your heart's content, you really can't assess what's possible and what isn't without ploughing into Templot, so any sketches/ideas I had really had to wait until I got home.

 

Having made the recent video, I realised just how much I wanted to make the rear of the layout into a scenic section free from buildings or other railway related paraphernalia. Took me years, but I eventually bought into the less is more camp (honest....) and the raised trackbed around the rear of the layout opened all sorts of possibilities and viewpoints. One of my favourite spotting places is actually going down a couple of stairs that takes me level with the trackbed and there I can happily watch trains and relive those wonderful days of steam in the 50's.

 

The other problem was the gradient down to the traverser, which was just over 1:50 and although it was a relatively short run, I didn't want repeats of 8 coach trains being held on the slope with a red signal and then being unable to get going again.

 

I think I have tried every location known to man within the confines of the existing plan, to resolve the gradient issue and once again compromise is on the cards.

 

I need a 9.5m run to ascend 95mm and that can be done, by extending the descending track from ET station to the top end of the plan and then diving under the main lines to the support frame level. I still need to check the positions of the Tortoise motors, but feel confident with either 180 degree rotation or remote mounting, I can find space to allow the storage access tracks to run through. It's probable the traverser will have to go as that requires too much width, so a fixed board is the answer. The major compromise will be access to the rear of the layout as it will mean ducking under the storage. At 72, that really doesn't thrill me, but the thought that all of that area will be scenic and just four main lines on a gentle curve makes it more acceptable. Care in laying the lines etc, should mean derailments will be very rare or non existent. All of the scenic work can be done before the storage goes in, so that's not an issue.

 

So here's the first attempt at a plan....

 

 

The turnout at A may be removed or may lead to the scenic area outlined in yellow. This will descend gently so as not to block the view as described earlier. The turnout at B will ascend to the shed area, but more of that later.

 

Over the years there have been numerous attempts to build ET and whilst they have all failed or been scrapped, the plans are still filed away and I knew I had something that might do the job.....Sadly just a plan as the original was scrapped.

 

 

Fifteen storage lines on 44.67mm centres, so just 625mm wide and the facility to turn all locos and run round on a vacant track back to the front on the train. I have an old Fleischmann turntable that may still do the job, or I may fabricate something.

 

Another stack of pointwork to build (or buy from Wayne....) but it should keep me out of trouble for a while.

 

Eventually it will look like a shorter version of this with the minimum storage road length set at 8'.

 

 

Still working on some ideas for the shed, but considering double stacking the shed on top of the storage. There will be sufficient space, but in any case, I will have removable sections in case of emergencies such as a tie bar coming adrift.

 

That provides a central control position with everything within reach, so ideal for a single operator or space for more to operate the other side of the storage.

 

Still need some final checks, but this could be a solution in terms of hidden storage. 

 

[Siberian Snooper]

Just to throw a spanner in the works, have you considered a hockey stick traverse, I've heard they're all the rage? The tracks at the end of the traverse are curved to match the curve of the approach tracks. 

 

Ok, hat and coat on and heading for the door. 

 

 

[gordon s]

Thanks SS. No, I didn't consider it, but now you have mentioned it, I think it would fail on several grounds. The length alone would be in the region of 10' and the weight of the boards considerable, particularly once loaded with 14 full length trains.

 

I ruled out a traverser as even with three entry points, you need space to move it in and out. What isn't showing on the plan above is the stairwell which is right up against the right hand edge of the storage boards. This means all movement on a traverser has to be towards the left edge and that takes it too close to the  main line boards running down the back of the layout.

 

I know what I have will work as I've built it once already. Just a shame I sold all the pointwork when I had a clearout a few years ago.....

 

As always, I'm open to suggestion, but you weren't to know where the boards, balustrade and stairwell are situated from my drawing.

[Rowsley17D]

My concern, Gordon is that trains emerging from storage will have to do a considerable length of wrong line running on, what I believe is, one the goods avoiding lines before crossing over to the correct running line.

[eldavo]

Hi Gordon, Can't help thinking that you'll very quickly get tired of having the centre of the room totally taken up with the storage area. How will you clean the track/evict the spiders/sort out a derailment on the scenic run? Ok so I realize derailments don't happen on your track. ;-)

 

Cheers

Dave

 

 

[gordon s]

That was always the case Jonathan. Sadly no way round it, so the outer line beyond turnout B is omni directional. When travelling clockwise, a tank will move the stock into the confines of ET station. The main line loco will couple up at the other end and away you go. 
 

Anti clockwise a main line loco will travel straight through and across to lines 1 or 2. No problem route wise as they are all automated via the ECoS. It is has to cross the clockwise lines, but then all the conflicting routes are shut down and eventually the signalling and power feeds will prevent any potential accidents.

 

The reverse will also be true with trains crossing from line 1 or 2 to line 7. In the clockwise direction trains will go straight down line 7 to storage.

 

Best I can do and another one of life’s compromises....

Edited February 24, 2021 by gordon s

[gordon s]

16 minutes ago, eldavo said:

Hi Gordon, Can't help thinking that you'll very quickly get tired of having the centre of the room totally taken up with the storage area. How will you clean the track/evict the spiders/sort out a derailment on the scenic run? Ok so I realize derailments don't happen on your track. ;-)

 

Cheers

Dave

 

 

 
As always I’m open to suggestions. I have tried moving a dummy 8’ cassette around and it’s an accident waiting to happen. The other problem is storing 15 x 8’ cassettes and there just isn’t the space. Short of moving home, I’m stuck with the space I have.

 

Other than a few hours on Templot, nothing has been made, so if you can miraculously find an alternative that deals with a 1:100 gradient and 8’ storage, the beers are on me.....

 

Edit: Just to add to that, I haven’t cleaned the track for gone best part of a year and as you saw from the video, everything runs well. There is little or no pointwork on that side of the layout and as the storage is just over 2’ wide, there is a 2’6” space and 4’6” the other.

 

Oh for a bigger house......

Edited February 24, 2021 by gordon s

[Barry O]

Go for it gordon...traversers always cause  problems. The storage roads can feed lots of trains onto the main layout and.. it shouldn't be too difficult for you to knock out the track parts.

 

Baz

Edited February 24, 2021 by Barry O

[BoD]

Have you seen that vertical storage yard? Nelevator I think they call it.  I bet it won't be cheap - but then compared to all the ply that you use ... 

[woodenhead]

2 minutes ago, BoD said:

Have you seen that vertical storage yard? Nelevator I think they call it.  I bet it won't be cheap - but then compared to all the ply that you use ... 

If Gordon orders one now, he may get it in time for the next passing of Halleys Comet.

 

There are a few threads on here bemoaning the customer service of said company, Gordon though knows all this.

 

 

[BoD]

8 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

If Gordon orders one now, he may get it in time for the next passing of Halleys Comet.

 

There are a few threads on here bemoaning the customer service of said company, Gordon though knows all this.

 

 

I hadn't seen that.

Perhaps not such a good idea then.

[gordon s]

9 minutes ago, BoD said:

Have you seen that vertical storage yard? Nelevator I think they call it.  I bet it won't be cheap - but then compared to all the ply that you use ... 

 

Just out of interest, Companies House says they are still active, but a Statement is due by March 4th and Accounts by 31 October 2021.

 

[gordon s]

I wish you hadn't reminded me of those as I can see a home made vertical rack on wheels to store the cassettes. Fill it up and turn it round once full. Job done.....

 

Thankfully I'm sure don't have an area big enough in which to turn a fully loaded vertical cassette unit......of course I'll have to check though....

[woodenhead]

3 minutes ago, gordon s said:

I wish you hadn't reminded me of those as I can see a home made vertical rack on wheels to store the cassettes. Fill it up and turn it round once full. Job done.....

 

Thankfully I'm sure don't have an area big enough in which to turn a fully loaded vertical cassette unit......of course I'll have to check though....

Some plywood, couple of long bike chains and some cogs......

[gordon s]

Needs a bit of work, but job done.....

 

This is the budget model.....

 

[Denbridge]

4 hours ago, gordon s said:

One of the plusses of being in hospital is that you have plenty of time to think and I've never really been happy with either the shed facility or traverser storage on ET. Whilst you can scribble away to your heart's content, you really can't assess what's possible and what isn't without ploughing into Templot, so any sketches/ideas I had really had to wait until I got home.

 

Having made the recent video, I realised just how much I wanted to make the rear of the layout into a scenic section free from buildings or other railway related paraphernalia. Took me years, but I eventually bought into the less is more camp (honest....) and the raised trackbed around the rear of the layout opened all sorts of possibilities and viewpoints. One of my favourite spotting places is actually going down a couple of stairs that takes me level with the trackbed and there I can happily watch trains and relive those wonderful days of steam in the 50's.

 

The other problem was the gradient down to the traverser, which was just over 1:50 and although it was a relatively short run, I didn't want repeats of 8 coach trains being held on the slope with a red signal and then being unable to get going again.

 

I think I have tried every location known to man within the confines of the existing plan, to resolve the gradient issue and once again compromise is on the cards.

 

I need a 9.5m run to ascend 95mm and that can be done, by extending the descending track from ET station to the top end of the plan and then diving under the main lines to the support frame level. I still need to check the positions of the Tortoise motors, but feel confident with either 180 degree rotation or remote mounting, I can find space to allow the storage access tracks to run through. It's probable the traverser will have to go as that requires too much width, so a fixed board is the answer. The major compromise will be access to the rear of the layout as it will mean ducking under the storage. At 72, that really doesn't thrill me, but the thought that all of that area will be scenic and just four main lines on a gentle curve makes it more acceptable. Care in laying the lines etc, should mean derailments will be very rare or non existent. All of the scenic work can be done before the storage goes in, so that's not an issue.

 

So here's the first attempt at a plan....

 

 

The turnout at A may be removed or may lead to the scenic area outlined in yellow. This will descend gently so as not to block the view as described earlier. The turnout at B will ascend to the shed area, but more of that later.

 

Over the years there have been numerous attempts to build ET and whilst they have all failed or been scrapped, the plans are still filed away and I knew I had something that might do the job.....Sadly just a plan as the original was scrapped.

 

 

Fifteen storage lines on 44.67mm centres, so just 625mm wide and the facility to turn all locos and run round on a vacant track back to the front on the train. I have an old Fleischmann turntable that may still do the job, or I may fabricate something.

 

Another stack of pointwork to build (or buy from Wayne....) but it should keep me out of trouble for a while.

 

Eventually it will look like a shorter version of this with the minimum storage road length set at 8'.

 

 

Still working on some ideas for the shed, but considering double stacking the shed on top of the storage. There will be sufficient space, but in any case, I will have removable sections in case of emergencies such as a tie bar coming adrift.

 

That provides a central control position with everything within reach, so ideal for a single operator or space for more to operate the other side of the storage.

 

Still need some final checks, but this could be a solution in terms of hidden storage. 

 

Could you make the end of the fiddle yard and turntable on a hinged board that could be opened upwards for when you need to access the rear of the layout?

[Denbridge]

1 hour ago, gordon s said:

 

Just out of interest, Companies House says they are still active, but a Statement is due by March 4th and Accounts by 31 October 2021.

 

The 4mm nelevators, especially the long ones, suffer reliability issues and arent happy with tbe weight of several trains. I had one on order which i cancelled. It took me a long time to get my refund. 

I understand several others have neither recieved their orders and are struggling to get refunds. 

[gordon s]

41 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

Could you make the end of the fiddle yard and turntable on a hinged board that could be opened upwards for when you need to access the rear of the layout?

...but surely that would only work if the storage was empty. The roads are just over 8’ each and most trains will fill each line. The ends have so much pointwork it may not be practical. I could make a ‘gate’ similar to 92220’s Camden Shed, but suspect it will just be two big to move and accurately align.

 

Joking apart, my quick sketch of vertical storage is fascinating me. Not an automated version, but simply a rack where the top line is in and out and once full it is moved a minimal distance to sit on steel rods projecting each side. The width of each bed could be fairly tight so that trains aren’t free to fall off the rails. Once all 15 cassettes are full, the whole unit is rotated 180 degrees and away you go again. Just lift one cassette to the top of the unit and plug into the access road.

 

I have a workshop including a pillar drill so drilling in line and perpendicular should be fine. I’m sure there are possibly loads of issues, but I fancy a challenge. It can then be simply wheeled away to one side and being a lot shorter will allow access to the other side of the storage area.

 

The big unknown is the shed area and I haven’t thought that one through yet, but as it only needs a single line, it could be parked to one side of the shed which will be 180mm higher.

Edited February 24, 2021 by gordon s

[BoD]

It may be that I am not understanding your track plan or method of working but... Irregardless of type of fiddle yard, if you send a train ‘out’  it will only be going round in one direction and won’t be able to access the fiddle yard again unless the loco runs around or is replaced.  Will this happen at the station which I thought was essentially a through station?

 

p.s. wasn’t Dele Alli’s goal,a cracker.

Edited February 24, 2021 by BoD

[gordon s]

Well he had to after Giroud during the week.

 

Good to see Bale back in it as well.......The opposition wasn't exactly Premier League standard, but still enjoyable to watch after the past few weeks.

 

Back to ET. The outer road (line 7) is basically omni directional.  If you are going clockwise, a shunter will take the train up and leave it in line 7 within the station confines. The main line loco will then couple to the front and away.....

 

If going anti clockwise, the main line loco will take the train up to line 7 at B and then continue right through to line 1 or 2. All the routes are set automatically, so selecting the route you require, shuts down all the other routes where conflicts may occur. Eventually both signals and electrical interlocking will not allow any train to move if one is traversing the station throat at either end, but that is some way away.

 

The reverse is exactly the same, hence the additional crossovers to allow that movement directly across to line 7.

 

I love to have a more prototypical layout, but it is what it is. The ideal of access in both directions just wasn't possible.

 

Sounds like I have just gone from a model railway to a train set in a couple of steps........

Edited February 24, 2021 by gordon s

[martin_wynne]

Hi Gordon,

 

Are these the carriage sidings? I assume so as you are also intending an MPD for the locos.

 

In which case, why do need a turntable at the far end? If you put the sidings on a gradient you can use gravity shunting instead.

 

1. train terminates at ET station.

2. main line loco detaches and runs to shed for servicing.

3. station pilot backs on and takes coaches to carriage sidings.

4. on approaching sidings, pilot detaches and runs into spur siding.

5. guard releases brakes on coaches and they roll down into the required siding.

6. pilot emerges from spur, backs onto next set of coaches and takes them to station platform.

7. pilot detaches and main line loco comes from shed and backs on.

8. main line train does a few laps of the room.

9. go back to 1.

 

Goods trains can work similarly, but you need a spur or two for the brake vans at the top of the sidings. The pilot needs to pull them off the arrived train and put them in spur. And back the next train onto them before leaving the sidings.

 

What am I missing?

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[Chimer]

Mmmm ... as Gordon described it, all passenger trains either originate or terminate at Eastwood, preceded or followed by an ECS movement.  As Martin suggests it, all trains originate and terminate at Eastwood preceded and followed by an ECS movement.  Which as Martin says, basically turns the FY into carriage sidings and simplifies operations significantly.

 

Or (half and half) how about accepting that the loco arriving in the storage sidings with an ex-clockwise train stays trapped until a different loco takes the stock away again as an anti-clockwise train, freeing the first loco to run light engine to the shed pending its next duty?

 

Not sure about goods, or how important freight ops are to the great scheme of things. Would a lie-by siding off each of the slow lines on the left-hand side of the layout (out in the country) be enough?  Is a goods train appearing from the "carriage sidings" hauled by one loco and taken away by a bigger loco (i.e. dealt with in the same  way as a passenger train) acceptable?

 

Changing tack, if anyone can build a Nelevator out of wood, I'm sure Gordon's the man!!

[St Enodoc]

5 hours ago, Barry O said:

traversers always cause  problems

Especially when all the balls fall out.

[Denbridge]

3 hours ago, gordon s said:

...but surely that would only work if the storage was empty. The roads are just over 8’ each and most trains will fill each line. The ends have so much pointwork it may not be practical. I could make a ‘gate’ similar to 92220’s Camden Shed, but suspect it will just be two big to move and accurately align.

 

Joking apart, my quick sketch of vertical storage is fascinating me. Not an automated version, but simply a rack where the top line is in and out and once full it is moved a minimal distance to sit on steel rods projecting each side. The width of each bed could be fairly tight so that trains aren’t free to fall off the rails. Once all 15 cassettes are full, the whole unit is rotated 180 degrees and away you go again. Just lift one cassette to the top of the unit and plug into the access road.

 

I have a workshop including a pillar drill so drilling in line and perpendicular should be fine. I’m sure there are possibly loads of issues, but I fancy a challenge. It can then be simply wheeled away to one side and being a lot shorter will allow access to the other side of the storage area.

 

The big unknown is the shed area and I haven’t thought that one through yet, but as it only needs a single line, it could be parked to one side of the shed which will be 180mm higher.

I had a similar lifting end to the fiddle yard on an old layout. In my case it went across the door into the room. Mine just contained the turntable and some turnouts, with the joint where the tracks were closing onto the table where spacing became too narrow for the stored trains It worked fine for nearly 10 years until a house move.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Denbridge
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