Jump to content

gordon s

Eastwood Town - Feeling blue but happy......

Recommended Posts

The way I do it Gordon, is to cover the paper with sticky back plastic and then you can drill through it without it tearing. Sorry it's a bit stable door and bolted but I didn't know you were doing it until after you'd done it.

Regards Lez. 

  • Informative/Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

 

Irrespective of colour, I reckon that just illuminating the route will make the panel much easier to understand.

 

I like sitting at the end of our street watching the traffic lights change!

 

Mike.

 

 

  • Funny 1
  • Friendly/supportive 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

I like sitting at the end of our street watching the traffic lights change!

 

Mike.

 

 

You are Peter Sellers and I claim my five pounds.

 

"A rose-red city, half as Golders Green".

Edited by St Enodoc
  • Funny 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gordon

 

If you cannot get a coloured Perspex use a clear sheet and after masking the bits you want to be clear paint the reverse side, this will save you drilling holes, just punch holes in the printed material where required first before applying to the Perspex 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

I like sitting at the end of our street watching the traffic lights change!

 

Mike.

 

 

Were you born in Spalding?

  • Funny 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, skipepsi said:

Were you born in Spalding?

 

No, but the last time I was there I got there too late and the council had rolled the roads and pavements up and put them away for the night.

 

Mike.

  • Informative/Useful 1
  • Funny 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

....and many thanks for all your contributions that have now taken this thread over 5000...

 

Amazing....:drink_mini:

 

Right, having played around with blue led's, that may well be the way to go. Just need to decide on the final size and then I'll get the perspex ordered.

 

I checked the voltage coming out of the DCC Concepts control boards and it would appear each led was getting around 2.6v. I would guess then that all the resistors etc are built into the control board.

 

Question. I touched on the need to have certain led's on all the time. The reason being every turnout will have a switched one and in some areas (e.g. the platforms) there is a large gap between the last approach turnout and the exit turnout.

 

Take line 1 and platform 1 as an example.

DSCF1196.jpg.eb8a123c75debff23505d0fdf9ae857a.jpg

 

The access turnouts are some way from the platform and as such there will be a large unlit gap between them.

 

I was thinking of bridging that gap in the area of P1 by adding two or three leds to show the route. I don't really know enough about electronics, but can see they can't be switched with the turnouts as either route would require them on, so my thoughts were to add some leds that were always on and feed them from their own power supply.

 

If I can have a similar output voltage of 2.6v all the common led's can be wired in parallel and remain on permanently whichever route is chosen. It is only the switched leds that form the access and exit that finally confirm the route.

 

If I'm barking mad or there is another way of doing it, do please tell.......

Edited by gordon s
  • Like 1
  • Agree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, gordon s said:

....and many thanks for all your contributions that have now taken this thread over 5000...

 

Amazing....:drink_mini:

 

Right, having played around with blue led's, that may well be the way to go. Just need to decide on the final size and then I'll get the perspex ordered.

 

I checked the voltage coming out of the DCC Concepts control boards and it would appear each led was getting around 2.6v. I would guess then that all the resistors etc are built into the control board.

 

Question. I touched on the need to have certain led's on all the time. The reason being every turnout will have a switched one and in some areas (e.g. the platforms) there is a large gap between the last approach turnout and the exit turnout.

 

Take line 1 and platform 1 as an example.

 

 

The access turnouts are some way from the platform and as such there will be a large unlit gap between them.

 

I was thinking of bridging that gap in the area of P1 by adding two or three leds to show the route. I don't really know enough about electronics, but can see they can't be switched with the turnouts as either route would require them on, so my thoughts were to add some leds that were always on and feed them from their own power supply.

 

If I can have a similar output voltage of 2.6v all the common led's can be wired in parallel and remain on permanently whichever route is chosen. It is only the switched leds that form the access and exit that finally confirm the route.

 

If I'm barking mad or there is another way of doing it, do please tell.......

For the avoidance of doubt, my "Agree" meant that I agree with your idea of permanently lit LEDs between the toes of adjacent points and not that you are barking mad (although...).

  • Funny 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, gordon s said:

so my thoughts were to add some leds that were always on and feed them from their own power supply...If I can have a similar output voltage of 2.6v all the common led's can be wired in parallel and remain on permanently whichever route is chosen. It is only the switched leds that form the access and exit that finally confirm the route.

 

 

Hi Gordon,

 

Having LEDs permanently on whether there is a route through them or not seems to me to defeat the entire purpose of the panel?

 

I haven't properly followed your explanations of the ECoS system, but I believe it provides an output for each NX route selected? It needs only a simple OR gate connected to the relevant outputs to put a LED on in the platform when there is a route set up through it, and not otherwise. Or a few diodes and relays, if you are happier with those.

 

Can you point me to the ECoS specs, so I can draw you a proper circuit diagram?

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Edited by martin_wynne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just trying to get my head round the route selection issue and will go and test it in a minute, but taking platform 1 as an example, you can set a route from line 1-4. The illumination of the led’s is driven by the turnout switching, not the route selection. Route setting only decides which turnouts are required to set the the route and then drives them one at a time to form the route. I would suspect that one of the route buttons for platform 1 will always be on and selecting line 1-4 will simply switch off the previous route and illuminate the new one.
 

I can see the logic of not switching on any led’s unless a route is chosen, but can’t see a situation when no route is chosen, unless no trains are running at all. Cue complaints from all visitors........;)

 

As an example,  the turnout to the left of platform one only decides the exit track and leds will be lit irrespective of the route chosen. Either straight ahead to line one or turn right to lines 2-4, so one of those lights will always be on.

 

Hope that makes sense.....

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Agree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Diodes are your friend.

 

Cheers

Dave

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't want spoon feeding but tell me more, my electronics wizard...;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My initial thought was I would put 4 LEDs along P1 section wired as 2 pairs. I would feed each pair from the normal and reverse LED feeds of the points at the relevant end. If you include a diode in each feed it will stop it feeding back into the uppowered output.

 

After writing that though I realize it's complete rubbish and all that will do is give you 4 LEDs permanently lit. Doh!  The simple solution is to wire 3 or 4 LEDs in series and feed them 12 volts. You should probably include a 1K ohm resistor to limit the current further and dim them down a bit.

 

Cheers

Dave

 

  • Agree 1
  • Friendly/supportive 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thinking some more it probably needs a bit of fiddling as Martin suggested to take into account of the case where there is no route selected through P1 i.e. traffic is running from for 1 through P2.

 

Hmmm

 

Cheers

Dave

 

  • Friendly/supportive 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's why I've been pondering so long....

 

Just switched on the ECoS and one route was set. I assume that was where I left it before switching off. Pressed a few route buttons and found you can have several routes selected (four in my case) but cannot have any conflicts as the new routes simply cancels out the old one if there is a turnout common to both routes. I can't see how you can have no routes set as you cannot switch them off without deleting them or overriding them, but that still leaves one on....

 

As far as led's are concerned, the routes are a red herring as they are all driven by turnout selection. You raise a good point though Dave, if line 1 entrance and exit are set to Platform 2, the lights in platform 1 would still be illuminated.

 

I could do a formula in Excel with 'IF' but that doesn't help in electronics.....:D

 

Maybe I can only have one or two additional fed from each end, but as you say, you'd have half the platform showing half a route......

 

On the other hand, don't bother.....

  • Friendly/supportive 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are a couple or more signalling engineers who may be able to help, but their names escape me at the moment.  How technically challenging their ideas would be is of course another matter.

 

 

  • Friendly/supportive 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, eldavo said:

Diodes are your friend

Not the ones down the left-hand side of the body...

 

  • Like 1
  • Funny 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wandering round the golf course in the sun this morning and I suspect the only way (or the simplest way for my limited knowledge) may be to have a small toggle switch on each platform to switch on or off the additional led's through the platform.

 

Not ideal, nor foolproof, but it would provide a solution. Select the platform, switch on and then select the route. Longer term it may be the additional platform led's could be switched by the signalling system and not the track turnouts...

 

Food for thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now, as a non-electronics man, would it be possible to have say 4 on/off LEDs in the middle of P1 which were wired to the setting of the turnouts' LEDs such that No 1 would light up for route Diesel shed/line 1 to line 1; No2 would light up for Diesel shed/line 1 to line 2 (and No 1 light go out); No3 would light for route line to line 2 and No 4 would light up for line 2 to line 2.

 

Will remove if this is total horlicks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Jonathan

 

I think I've understood, but that doesn't cover line 3 or line 4, each of which can access/exit from platform 1 and only one of the four led's will be lit at any one time.

 

In theory line 1 & 2 run right to left straight through, but there will be instances where a train terminates in any platform. Once passengers have departed the empty stock can go one of two ways to storage.

 

For instance, trains terminating in platform one will need to run across the station throat to line 4 and then reverse back into the relief road to storage. The alternative is to depart on line 1, run a complete loop and return from the right crossing over all lines to the relief loop.

 

Whichever way I look at it, there are going to be situations where any platform may not be required and the led's will be on, whereas the routes will show lines bypassing the platform.

 

Manually switching them off at this stage may be a solution until signalling goes in, at which time the signal switch will control the platform led. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gordon

 

I must be missing something here..

 

If you set a rout into Platform1 that route should show LED indicators as the route is set by the Point machines.

 

If another route into platform 1  is selected then each turnout should light the LEDs for the turnout. position.  

But, if the route selected does not go to Platform 1 - say it went to 2, the route to that Platform would again be lit up as the points get to the correct position and hence into Platform 1 If this means the points into platform 1 no longer are "set".. then Platform 1 shouldn't be lit.

 

It should be a domino affect. 

image.png.e46d1d68fee9c19a5c12ca44aa8c6b22.png

 to go into platform 1 needs A,C, B AND D turnouts to be correctly set. LEDS should show route into 1

If route to Platform 2 selected then "C" and "D" turnouts will change.. hence Platofrm 2 lEDS will be lit

etc..

 

or is it me being stupid??

 

Baz

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Hi Gordon,

 

I think you need to have 2 LEDs in each platform, and to treat each end of the track plan separately. LED at one end of platform comes on when there is a route set in from that end. Likewise at the other end of the platform from the other end of the track plan.

 

How do you feel about buying a relay for each turnout? SPCO changeover relays can be had for under £1 these days, even from RS, Farnell, etc., and cheaper on ebay or from the far east.

 

Can you get an on-off feed from each turnout, or from whatever it is switching the LEDs now? Are they already relays? Do they have a spare SPCO contacts?

 

It would be a lot easier to suggest something if I could properly know what is happening now.

 

I can imagine a method of getting what you want which any railway modeller could understand, and without needing to know anything about electronics:

 

1. find a large board. It will need to be 2 or 3 feet long. It doesn't matter what it looks like because it will be under the baseboard.

 

2. draw the track plan on it.

 

3. with a glue gun, stick a relay on it at each turnout, upside down, tags in the air. Have the tag for the common connection at the toe (tie-bar) end of the turnout.

 

4. connect the relay coil to switch on or off when the turnout changes. If I knew how the turnouts were working now I could suggest how to do that. What type of point motors are you using? If they are Tortoise or similar, it just needs a diode and connection to the existing motor terminals. Alternatively, connect the relay to whatever it is that is switching the LEDs on and off now.

 

5. connect the relay changeover contacts from one relay to the next to match the track plan. i.e. imagine the trains running along the wires.

 

6. feed some power in on all the wires leading in from the end to the first relays.

 

7. connect a platform LED to the wires leading out from the relays to each platform.

 

8. when the points are set for a route into a platform the LED will come on. If they aren't, it won't.

 

No DCC, no electronics, easily repaired/modified if you change the track plan, nothing to be damaged by bad soldering, nothing to be damaged by wrong connections (except the LEDs, and you know about those by the seem of things).

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Edited by martin_wynne
  • Like 1
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

Hi Gordon,

 

I think you need to have 2 LEDs in each platform, and to treat each end of the track plan separately. LED at one end of platform comes on when there is a route set in from that end. Likewise at the other end.

 

OK, so far....

 

2 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

How do you feel about buying a relay for each turnout? SPCO relays can be had for under £1 these days, even from RS, Farnell, etc., and cheaper on ebay or from the far east.

 

OK, so far

 

2 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Can you get an on-off feed from each turnout, or from whatever it is switching the LEDs now? Are they already relays? Do they have a spare SPCO contacts?

 

The led's are driven via the electronics in the DCC Concepts PCB.....however, I'm using Tortoise motors with dual switching. One switch is covering frog polarity, which leaves one free switch which could be used.

 

2 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

It would be a lot easier to suggest something if I could properly know what is happening now.

 

I can imagine a method of getting what you want which any railway modeller could understand, and without needing to know anything about electronics:

 

OK. Here is the ECoS manual if it will help. 

 

http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/instruction-manuals/digital-systems/

 

You will need to download the 50200 manual. Scroll down to agree to the terms.

 

 

2 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

1. find a large board. It will need to be 2 or 3 feet long. It doesn't matter what it looks like because it will be under the baseboard.

 

2. draw the track plan on it.

 

3. with a glue gun, stick a relay on it at each turnout.

 

4. connect the relay coil to switch on or off when the turnout changes. If I knew how the turnouts were working now I could suggest how to do that. What type of point motors are you using? If they are Tortoise or similar, it just needs a diode and connection to the existing motor terminals. Alternatively, connect the relay to whatever it is that is switching the LEDs on and off now.

 

5. connect the relay changeover contacts from one relay to the next to match the track plan. i.e. imagine the trains running along the wires.

 

6. feed some power in on all the wires leading in from the end to the first relays.

 

7. connect a platform LED to the wires leading out from the relays to each platform.

 

8. when the points are set for a route into a platform the LED will come on. If they aren't, it won't.

 

8. That's part of the problem as there are multiple points of access to each platform.

 

DSCF1184.jpg.0a530eaecaa014c918c3963585e10069.jpg

 

For example. Trains for platforms 1, 2, 3B will arrive from the right or light locos from the diesel shed.

 

Line 1 (L1) to platform 1 (P1).

 

In theory turnouts 1 or 2 could be used to light P1.

 

If switching is via T1, a train from L2 via T2 into P1 will not switch on P1 lights unless T1 is set accordingly to switch on P1 lights.

 

If crossover T2 was used to switch on P1 lights, then they would come on when a train comes into P1 from L2, but not a train from L1 via T1 and T2.

 

If you work on the basis that T1 left or T2 left could illuminate P1, what happens when a light loco comes from the diesel shed. Changing both turnouts straight ahead would switch off P1 lights.

 

Apologies if my lack of knowledge on electronics is way out, but as you can see there are various ways in and out of the platforms and in my simple world, there are numerous conflicts on possible switching of routes.

 

I'm more than happy to look at any alternatives from those far more knowledgeable.

 

It wasn't until I was golfing did I thing about signals as they dictate whether or not a train can proceed, not the turnouts and hence my short term manual fix that could be superseded by signalling switching at a later date.

 

2 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

No DCC, no electronics, nothing to be damaged by bad soldering, nothing to be damaged by wrong connections (except the LEDs, and you know about those by the seem of things).

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

 

Hope that helps.....

DSCF1184.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 29/07/2020 at 16:19, gordon s said:

That's why I've been pondering so long....

 

Just switched on the ECoS and one route was set. I assume that was where I left it before switching off. Pressed a few route buttons and found you can have several routes selected (four in my case) but cannot have any conflicts as the new routes simply cancels out the old one if there is a turnout common to both routes. I can't see how you can have no routes set as you cannot switch them off without deleting them or overriding them, but that still leaves one on....

 

As far as led's are concerned, the routes are a red herring as they are all driven by turnout selection. You raise a good point though Dave, if line 1 entrance and exit are set to Platform 2, the lights in platform 1 would still be illuminated.

 

I could do a formula in Excel with 'IF' but that doesn't help in electronics.....:D

 

Maybe I can only have one or two additional fed from each end, but as you say, you'd have half the platform showing half a route......

 

On the other hand, don't bother.....

Hi

 

I did something similar on my old layout using a mixture of logic gates (74LS series) but depending on your electronics knowledge this may be a step too far.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Paul.

 

I'm not sure what is funnier, my logic or my lack of knowledge in electronics......:D

 

It's early days yet and of course I'm always willing to learn. I can write formulae in Excel using IF, so I guess it may be similar. Just a case of working through all the options, one step at a time.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.