Eastwood Town - A tribute to Gordon's modelling.

[thegreenhowards]

Gordon,

 

I have lots of live frame locos running on DCC, some with Portescaps. It’s not recommended and if I’m building from scratch I fit pick ups to both sides, but if I buy a live frame loco, I don't convert it. You just have to make absolutely sure that the live body can’t touch either motor terminal as this will blow the decoder and may blow the Portescap as well. 

 

Any shorts (which are more likely On live frame locos e.g. when the bogie hits the cylinder) are more annoying on DCC. But they shouldn’t blow the decoder. 

 

Zimo are great with Portescaps. They list some CV changes in their instructions which work really well. Let me know if you can’t find them.

 

Andy

 

 

[Michael Edge]

No problem with Portescaps on DCC, there are about 200 on Carlisle and many of them have frames live one side. If you have one with a noisy gearbox you will notice it - if you don't, leave it alone. Graham Varley has a method of getting them to run more quietly anyway - it's the bevel gear which produces the noise.

[gordon s]

Thanks Michael. Graham is clearly well known, but in all these years, we’ve never met. I had hoped to see him at Ally Pally a few times, but every time I went we missed by 24 hours. I’m really pleased with all the loco’s he built for me and it’s great to see them out of storage and running well after all these years.

 

Thanks for all your input guys. Hopefully this D16/3 will be running on ET tomorrow.

[Barry O]

Gordon.. you can use an N Gauge DCC chip.. the Portescaps take no  amperage at all.

 

Having fitted some sound chips to the Carlisle kit built locos just keep checking everthing is not shorting before applying the dcc power

 

Baz

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, john dew said:

 

Yes that would be the one.....another "may come in useful" I stored away.

 

As an aside most of the  DJM locos have coreless motors including Hattons 14xx (ok to mention GWR here I hope)....... a very disappointing runner....I fitted a Zimo and some stay alive tantalums and the loco's performance was transformed. Its now totally reliable operating automatically with RR&Co. I bought the Zimo from Youchoos and John Gymer advised me to set CV 56 to 22 (I normally accept the default : 55) .....Page 19 in the Zimo Manual may be of use

 

Cheers

 

John

 

John

 

Sounds like no problem with the coreless motors, but the design and or quality of the pickup arrangements. Lets face it given the prices these items cost now I don't know about others but I would expect a performance to match the detail and its price

 

I have read on another thread there is one modeller who is having to build and fit etched chassis to certain locos adding another £100 + to the cost

[Regularity]

Portescap was (and still is) the vompany that produced the RG4 and RG7 motor-gearboxes, using Escap motors.

The RG stands for Reduction Gearbox, 4vand 7 referring time the modelling scale for which they were intended.

Mist of the gearbox used precision gears already available, but the bevel gears in the first stage were specially made. These were the weak point in the design: if ever so slightly wrongly adjusted, you get more gear noise and wear. Also, as the mould used to produce the one on the motor got more worn, the gears became poorer. For whatever reason, investment in a new mould was not forthcoming and the product ceased production. 
Slaters have used helical rather than bevel gears, but the end product whilst of the highest quality is expensive and fairly inflexible, unlike the High Level gearboxes.

[Barry O]

If you want high quality gears and you have lots of money try:

 

Davall Gears

 

All the ones I used in Aerospace systems were beautifully made.

 

Baz

[polybear]

3 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

If you have one with a noisy gearbox you will notice it - if you don't, leave it alone. Graham Varley has a method of getting them to run more quietly anyway - it's the bevel gear which produces the noise.

 

Hi Nike,

Would that be the same as the Comet method, by any chance?

[Barry O]

A method was suggested in the S4 magazine. It involves cleaning all the gunk out of the gearbox..

 

Baz

[gordon s]

I’ll run it up on DC tomorrow. Hopefully it will go after all these years.....

 

Watch this space......

 

I’m looking forward to the challenge. Certainly beats pushing in an 8 pin plug.

[Baby Deltic]

8 hours ago, great northern said:

Last one went in 1960 Gordon, but that had kept its lovely valances. 1959 for the one you have.

My old D16/3. I think it still stands up well against the Hornby model but it can't pull the skin off a rice pudding. A bit of Bullfrog Snot on the wheels might help:

 

[St Enodoc]

17 hours ago, hayfield said:

You can use a live chassis (just be carefull all stock is insulated  and on Double headed running)  on DCC, its  just not advised.

That's equally true with DC John!

[gordon s]

Pleased to say ran up this little beaut on DC this morning and a) it works and b) it's virtually silent and very smooth running.

 

Only a few years late, but thank you, Graham....

 

Now where's that decoder?....

[hayfield]

35 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

That's equally true with DC John!

 

Yes agree but with DCC you stand the chance of frying the chip rather than just activating the cutout device. I always insulate the right hand side (looking forward from the cab). Also I guess double heading is less likely in DC, though many may do it successfully

 

I guess its just  

[Denbridge]

21 hours ago, gordon s said:

Did they go bust and re emerge or just sell up?  These came up on a search and the branding is similar..

 

https://www.portescap.com

The model units were Kean Portescaps. Specially made for Jean. Production stopped many years ago. Incidentally,  don't remove the end. It isnt a cover, it's part of the motor assembly. 

I suggest making sure it is free running, by revolving the wheels by hand before you apply any power.  Some units use a grease which gets very thick and impedes the motors ability to function if not used for a long time.

[Michael Edge]

2 hours ago, gordon s said:

Pleased to say ran up this little beaut on DC this morning and a) it works and b) it's virtually silent and very smooth running.

 

Only a few years late, but thank you, Graham....

 

Now where's that decoder?....

I thought it might be a quiet one if Graham built it.

[gordon s]

Bit of a challenge tracing which bit of the chassis was live to which set of wheels. Had a close shave with a short caused by one of the very fine copper pick up wires on the tender touching the axle, but got away with it as it was all on the programming track.

 

No 'Pope' smoke, so that was a relief. Funnily enough it all buzzed out fine on the dining room table, so I must have nudged it putting it on the track.

 

The front pony truck had a small arrow engraved on it, so even those wheels are part of the pick up to the live chassis. Something else I learned after they went on the wrong way round......

 

Houston, we have lift off and a Stella awaits.....

 

 

i wonder what tomorrow has in store....

Edited March 24, 2020 by gordon s

[thegreenhowards]

Very impressive - I wish I could get my kits running on DCC so quickly! Where did you put the decoder in the end - tender or boiler?

[gordon s]

I managed to slide it into the boiler. (Zimo MX630R). I did take a look at the tender, but it would appear Graham had soldered that up as a complete box. There may well have been an aperture under the tender chassis, but that was also part of the pick up system, so I didn't want to disturb it.

 

I must say it is a work of art in terms of maximising the pickups via the live chassis. Thinking about it, this is probably my first 4-4-0 and running it on the rolling road made me realise just how critical weight distribution is. I guess there's little chance of adding weight in the front end of the boiler as all that would do is lift the trailing driving wheel without careful balancing at the rear. 

 

Seeing those large drivers moving on the bare chassis was an absolute pleasure. I'm really surprised just how fast it is at full tilt so I will limit top speed considerably in the decoder settings. It could certainly do with some lower gearing.....

[gordon s]

Been ferreting again and managed to pull out another three loco's. No problem with the first, but really surprised by the last two.

 

72006 Clan MacKenzie from another DJH kit built by Graham. Very rare loco for those of us based in London, whereas probably often seen between Carlisle and Glasgow Central. I certainly saw a few in my summer hols in Glasgow and that always peed off my mates in North London. Just read that one 72009 was at Stratford for a month in 1958, so that must have been a lottery win for my fellow spotters around the East of London.

 

 

As a boy we had a Trix Twin layout with most of my pals enjoying Triang and Hornby. I've always had a soft spot for the Dublo 2-6-4 tank and when the chance came up to buy a kit built one back in the late 90's at Cove Models, I couldn't resist it. This one has another Portescap motor and I'm guessing is from an early DJH kit. It's been wrapped up for years and looking at it this morning, I have mixed feelings. Maybe it's me, but it looks a little different to what I was expecting, so I pulled out a Bachmann one for comparison. This one still needs some detailing, but to my limited knowledge it looks the part. I wonder if it gets a mention in the best looking loco's as to it is beautifully proportioned and is a lovely work horse.

 

 

Now the comparison and again I'm not an expert, so feel free to add your comments re the differences. Here's the Bachmann one again.

 

 

Needs vacuum pipes and steps, but overall looks the part.

 

This is the kit built one. No disrespect to the builder at all, as it has been well built and runs very smoothly.

 

 

Just one running number apart, but the cab opening is quite different. It extends much further into the roof and the rain strip is much higher up the roof. It has the steps fitted but no glazing and there appears to be quite a lot of pipework missing. The bunker area has a recess missing and there is more of a curve between the angled surface and vertical surface of the bunker.

 

I'm treading very carefully here as there may well be detail differences in the class and both locos may be totally correct, but I found it an interesting comparison in terms of how far RTR has come over the years.

 

Perhaps you guys know better.

 

ET wise, I'm getting stuck into Templot again to see if I can improve on the shed layout. I looked at it 2 years ago and laid out a couple of plans, but things have moved on.

 

There were two options at that time, but with a slightly reduced space available, I may pull out bits from each design and hopefully come up with something to critique.....

 

The Fleischmann turntable went to eBay and has been replaced with a motorised Peco one.

 

 

 

Hoping to last the afternoon on my PC, but my wife is out in the garden and I'm sure there will be call to action shortly.....

[great northern]

4 hours ago, gordon s said:

Been ferreting again and managed to pull out another three loco's. No problem with the first, but really surprised by the last two.

 

72006 Clan MacKenzie from another DJH kit built by Graham. Very rare loco for those of us based in London, whereas probably often seen between Carlisle and Glasgow Central. I certainly saw a few in my summer hols in Glasgow and that always peed off my mates in North London. Just read that one 72009 was at Stratford for a month in 1958, so that must have been a lottery win for my fellow spotters around the East of London.

 

 

As a boy we had a Trix Twin layout with most of my pals enjoying Triang and Hornby. I've always had a soft spot for the Dublo 2-6-4 tank and when the chance came up to buy a kit built one back in the late 90's at Cove Models, I couldn't resist it. This one has another Portescap motor and I'm guessing is from an early DJH kit. It's been wrapped up for years and looking at it this morning, I have mixed feelings. Maybe it's me, but it looks a little different to what I was expecting, so I pulled out a Bachmann one for comparison. This one still needs some detailing, but to my limited knowledge it looks the part. I wonder if it gets a mention in the best looking loco's as to it is beautifully proportioned and is a lovely work horse.

 

 

Now the comparison and again I'm not an expert, so feel free to add your comments re the differences. Here's the Bachmann one again.

 

 

Needs vacuum pipes and steps, but overall looks the part.

 

This is the kit built one. No disrespect to the builder at all, as it has been well built and runs very smoothly.

 

 

Just one running number apart, but the cab opening is quite different. It extends much further into the roof and the rain strip is much higher up the roof. It has the steps fitted but no glazing and there appears to be quite a lot of pipework missing. The bunker area has a recess missing and there is more of a curve between the angled surface and vertical surface of the bunker.

 

I'm treading very carefully here as there may well be detail differences in the class and both locos may be totally correct, but I found it an interesting comparison in terms of how far RTR has come over the years.

 

Perhaps you guys know better.

 

ET wise, I'm getting stuck into Templot again to see if I can improve on the shed layout. I looked at it 2 years ago and laid out a couple of plans, but things have moved on.

 

There were two options at that time, but with a slightly reduced space available, I may pull out bits from each design and hopefully come up with something to critique.....

 

The Fleischmann turntable went to eBay and has been replaced with a motorised Peco one.

 

 

 

Hoping to last the afternoon on my PC, but my wife is out in the garden and I'm sure there will be call to action shortly.....

Nice to see that coaling tower again Gordon.

[Michael Edge]

Shame about the Britannia smoke deflectors on the Clan - but that's what DJH give you. We do now have some correct etched deflectors for the BR 6MT though.

[gordon s]

I'll let you tell Graham that......

 

Also found out that 80037 and 38 were both down at Exmouth Junction, so I would need Rule 1, 2 and 3......

 

Another dream shattered....

 

I have to say Gilbert, the buildings have stood up well to the passing of time. It was over 10 years ago in September 2009 when I clambered up into your loft. I know they have been stored for a fair bit of those 10 years, but knowing they were put together by Alan Downes is still special to me.

 

[Siberian Snooper]

I think that the top shed layout is more prototypical. Come on to shed and take coal and empty the ash pan, proceed to the turntable for turning and then proceed to shed. It also has the get out of jail card, in that with a little to and froing, the shed can still be accessed without recourse to the 'table should it become disabled.

 

 

[ROY@34F]

1 hour ago, Siberian Snooper said:

I think that the top shed layout is more prototypical. Come on to shed and take coal and empty the ash pan, proceed to the turntable for turning and then proceed to shed. It also has the get out of jail card, in that with a little to and froing, the shed can still be accessed without recourse to the 'table should it become disabled.

 

 

As you mention Top shed , I hope you don't mind me pointing out ,  with respect , that's not what happened at Top shed . Tender engines would enter the loco. depot onto the turntable as all tender engines need to turn , with KX being a terminus . Tank engines would take an avoiding road to the side of the turntable . They then proceed to the coaling plant , on to the stops , reverse direction to the two ash pit roads for the fires to be cleaned , ashpan and smokebox emptied . after which they moved on and then reversed back to the sheds or the "back pits" behind the running shed office ,which was generally used for goods engines and some others .The main shed was for the big engines . A smaller shed was used for the Met tanks .

 

Regards , Roy .