Eastwood Town - A tribute to Gordon's modelling.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Knowing less than most people hereabouts on steam sheds, but wouldn't the ashpit roads be in front of the engine shed on a "small" four road installation such as this and not on their own roads?

I remember from my spotting days of avoiding the ashpit and associated detritus when approaching the main building.

 

Mike.

[Buhar]

Those would have been inspection pits. Ash pits needed to be a bit further away as flying ash would play havoc with oiling and repairs. 

Alan 

[Michael Edge]

2 hours ago, gordon s said:

Had a bit of a play around with the existing plan. I've taken out the two storage roads (as per Mike) and rejigged the entry point so everything comes in shed wise on one line and coal deliveries on the other. You can now access the coaling stage from the shed (as per Martin) and a mod after the coaling stage (as per Dave) means you can reverse back without going to the turntable directly. The turntable needs moving up a fraction, but that's a big job, so I can live with it until other decisions are made.

 

 

 

Edit: Thanks Kier, posts crossed. What seemed like a lot of space, soon disappears....

That looks a lot better.

[gordon s]

1 hour ago, Regularity said:

I hope you don’t mind, and apologies for the rough and ready and very crude execution, but would the amendments below work for you?

 

Not a problem at all. Took a quick look and it's not really feasible and if I'm honest, not sure it adds much. There's no room after the turnout for a loco before going onto the turntable, so I'll leave that as is. The second change is almost a complete redesign, so I'll pass on that one. My fault re the turntable. The red circle is way undersize as it should be over 320mm diameter and as such there looks plenty of room. The Templot drawing below is accurate.

 

 

Gardening is now off the menu as the weather has changed, so I may kick around some more ideas this afternoon. Suddenly Kier's proposal is quire attractive. Get shot of the shed and just have a couple of lines in a field........

 

We have the technology, so watch this space. Off to start afresh....

[ROY@34F]

2 hours ago, Buhar said:

Those would have been inspection pits. Ash pits needed to be a bit further away as flying ash would play havoc with oiling and repairs. 

Alan 

2 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Knowing less than most people hereabouts on steam sheds, but wouldn't the ashpit roads be in front of the engine shed on a "small" four road installation such as this and not on their own roads?

I remember from my spotting days of avoiding the ashpit and associated detritus when approaching the main building.

 

Mike.

 

Absolutely correct Buhar.

 

Roy.

[SVR C & W]

Gordon,

 

Would a layout similar to Norwood junction shed not be suitable? 

[ROY@34F]

Getting a bit complicated now Gordon . I'm not computer savvy so can't draw a plan . All I would say is locos should proceed though the various stages of disposal after arrival without too much reversing of direction . They should coal first , onto ash pits , onto maybe buffer stops as you run out of length you have , back onto shed direct OR via the turntable . Or back to points near loco entry / exit and reverse again onto shed . engines could then leave direct from the shed to exit road . in this case the shed would be alongside the turntable and the points fanning out to the four shed roads alongside the ash pits . This is similar to the arrangement at Grantham . I know .... your TT hole is in the wrong place ? or you've simply not got the room . You're maybe stuck with some compromises .  But engines should proceed following each other through the various stages if at all possible . It's no one horse stable , this . It's a good sized busy shed .There will be many engines following each other through disposal .

I personally don't like to see so many roads onto the TT. as some others have said . 

 

I do think though you could gain some width to your plan by reducing the two roads for coal to one . Again like Grantham , the full coal wagons are pushed up a bank beyond the plant and the brakes pinned down , and the operator releases the brake and lets the wagon roll down (one at a time of course) in position for raisng while applying brake resistance by leverage on the brake lever with his shunters pole . when empty they just roll down and pinned down again to the points into the siding . So on your model you could have a few loaded wagons at the top of the bank and a few empty ones at the bottom .

       I hope this all makes sense .

 

Roy.

[Enterprisingwestern]

3 hours ago, ROY@34F said:

 

Absolutely correct Buhar.

 

Roy.

 

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-m&biw=1280&bih=624&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=locomotive+ashpits&oq=locomotive+ashpits&aqs=mobile-gws-lite..

 

Best not tell the real railway then?

 

Mike.

[Buhar]

Hi Mike,

 

On a skim through, only two of those images show ash pits close to where preparation or maintenance might take place.  Admittedly, the traffic demands at many sheds outgrew the available area and could result in less than ideal arrangements. 

 

Alan

[gordon s]

Spent the evening trawling though Great Northern Railway Engine Sheds and there’s bits of several that have given me some ideas for tomorrow. Those shortlisted are Hornsey, Retford, Lincoln, Boston and Bradford Adolphus Street. I suspect the limiting factor will be the width, but until I fire up Templot tomorrow it’s hard to say.

 

Thanks for your input during the day. As always it’s invaluable, but I’m ever conscious of compromises that may have to be made. Apologies for not commenting on Norwood Junction. As a North Londoner, Norwood Junction might have well been overseas, so I’m not familiar with it. I’ll see what the web pulls up.

[Flying Fox 34F]

Just spotted that my technology has changed Mike Edge to Smoke Edge?????  No idea what happened there?  My apologies to Mike.

 

Paul

[Siberian Snooper]

I've just had a look at Norwood on the NLS maps site and it's a four road shed on a narrow site, so might have possibilities for you despite being from sarf of the river.

 

 

[ROY@34F]

3 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-m&biw=1280&bih=624&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=locomotive+ashpits&oq=locomotive+ashpits&aqs=mobile-gws-lite..

 

Best not tell the real railway then?

 

Mike.

OK Mike, but I'm not convinced  . The photo of Bordesley shed looks about 100 years old .  It certainly was  very rare to see ash in pits in front of sheds , in any amount anyway , but maybe in those days who knows .  They were used to get underneath for oiling and examination , and inside the sheds fitters would use the pit to work underneath . The photo on the southern in 1947 ... well someone is cleaning the pit out but I don't think its ash particularly , maybe just general rubbish . 

 

Regards,Roy.

[Regularity]

3 hours ago, gordon s said:

trawling though Great Northern Railway Engine Sheds and there’s bits of several that have given me some ideas for tomorrow. Those shortlisted are Hornsey, Retford, Lincoln, Boston and Bradford Adolphus Street

Searching the prototype for inspiration? Steady on, chap: the idea might catch on!

[St Enodoc]

10 hours ago, gordon s said:

As a North Londoner, Norwood Junction might have well been overseas

Quite so. It's the wrong side of the river.

[Siberian Snooper]

Here's the link to the NLS map For Norwood shed. The shed is in the triangle.

 

https://maps.nls.uk/view/103314460

 

 

[gordon s]

Thanks for that, SS. Certainly food for thought. First impressions are that I’d have to make a mirror image vertically to place the shed at the top and the coaling stage at the bottom.

 

I’m guessing this may mean having to tighten the incoming curve quite considerably, but that can start the other side of the four main lines and the bridge across will be nearer a right angle than the current diagonal. There really are times when large free flowing curves and pointwork really are a straight jacket on design parameters. Of course I don’t want to tighten things up as that has always been my primary goal, but compromises may have to be made somewhere.

 

Templot awaits.....

[KeithHC]

On this photo of the coaling stage at Redhill sheds you can see graffiti in front of the loco. This seams to suggest that ash removal and coaling took place at the same time.

 

 

Keith

[gordon s]

Morning fellow cell mates....

 

Well who'd have thought it....

 

Started with a mirror image of Norwood Junction and surprisingly the coaling area went in quite easily. I was undecided where exactly to put the shed building, so made a start with it top right. Biggest shock was just how much space there is and how much longer it has made the shed roads. That's a real win for me. I may play around with it top left, but access may be more convoluted.

 

Looking at Norwood, locos still had to back out some way to access the turntable, so this plan should be OK.

 

I may need to make a change to allow incoming loco's direct access to the coaler without wrong road running. The two incoming lines join the other side of the bridge over the main lines and that isn't shown on this diagram.

 

Somehow I seem to have ended up with a huge empty space upper left......It's all I can do to stop filling it with sidings....

 

Over to you. All comments gratefully received.

 

Edited March 29, 2020 by gordon s

[77philg]

 couldnt your turn table  go into the empty space  lose 1 of the ashpits not the road . to park locos on cos not all of them stayed in the shed?  phil

[Regularity]

Diesel depot for the empty space, or just leave it as an as yet undeveloped bomb site.

[martin_wynne]

Hi Gordon,

 

You could get a small branch terminus in that empty space. Just a short platform with a run-round and siding.

 

No smiley, it's a serious suggestion. You would be amazed how much more interesting operation becomes when you have a second station on a layout.

 

A small branch terminus is also a great way to let a visitor "have a go" at operating.

 

ET becomes EJ. Eastwood Junction. The branch then becomes Eastwood Town. A common naming arrangement, see for example Stourbridge Junction/Town.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Edited March 29, 2020 by martin_wynne

[gordon s]

Now we're getting somewhere....

 

Went back to Norwood and with a bit of juggling managed to get one incoming line with access as per prototype. The outgoing line is now simply for coal wagons and empties. I still keep thinking I've missed something out as there seems so much space.....

 

My comments about filling the top left were very much tongue in cheek, Phil,  as I have been known to fill every available inch with track.

 

There is already a separate diesel shed on the lower level, so that is a possibility which would free up that area and keep all the shed related buildings in one place.

 

A small branch station? Not against the idea, just not sure of a run that lasts 30 seconds. I'm almost thinking of landscaping the area, to try and disguise the amount of track already there. I'm also conscious of the view point looking down the four main lines and would like to keep that relatively open. Rather than a quite substantial brick overbridge with four openings, I may revert to a more slender plate girder and keep things simple. It will only carry light loco's, so doesn't need to be over engineered.

 

Certainly happier with this version. I am wondering about a run round for an 08 to bring  and collect coal wagons plus a small headhunt as per my earlier plans.

 

Edited March 29, 2020 by gordon s

[gordon s]

I'll put the shed to one side today as the basics are certainly there. At least it's modelled on a prototype, even though it was a Southern one. Now I can see what can be done in the space, I'll take another look at the Northern sheds later this week. If that proves impossible, at least I have one that will work within the space constraints.

 

Back upstairs for another rummage and another loco that hasn't seen the light of day for many years. Another one of Graham's from a DJH kit. Peppercorn A1 60139 Sea Eagle. I saw it at KX many times, but checking Yeadons it left in April '59 and went to Doncaster. Breaks my heart to read it was condemned in June '64 and sold for scrap in January '65.

 

Pleased to say a few drops of oil and a gentle introduction to the track and away it went. Not bad considering it must have been shut away for 10 years. Blooming 'eck, just noticed in the pic, what looks like a dent in the top of the tender. Just checked and there is something there. The top edge of the tender has clearly caught something in storage and been deformed. It's nowhere near as bad as it looks in the pic, so hopefully will straighten out. B*gger......

 

Everything still seems surreal at home. I've been pretty busy on ET most of the time, so not seen anywhere near as much news. I can certainly recommend limiting your exposure to 24 hour a day news to lift your spirits. Whether I'll still feel the same after 3 months is debatable. It will certainly be tough once it's much warmer and should the restrictions on golf etc be lifted. 

 

Tread carefully and look after yourselves.....

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2020 by gordon s

[ROY@34F]

2 hours ago, gordon s said:

Now we're getting somewhere....

 

Went back to Norwood and with a bit of juggling managed to get one incoming line with access as per prototype. The outgoing line is now simply for coal wagons and empties. I still keep thinking I've missed something out as there seems so much space.....

 

My comments about filling the top left were very much tongue in cheek, Phil,  as I have been known to fill every available inch with track.

 

There is already a separate diesel shed on the lower level, so that is a possibility which would free up that area and keep all the shed related buildings in one place.

 

A small branch station? Not against the idea, just not sure of a run that lasts 30 seconds. I'm almost thinking of landscaping the area, to try and disguise the amount of track already there. I'm also conscious of the view point looking down the four main lines and would like to keep that relatively open. Rather than a quite substantial brick overbridge with four openings, I may revert to a more slender plate girder and keep things simple. It will only carry light loco's, so doesn't need to be over engineered.

 

Certainly happier with this version. I am wondering about a run round for an 08 to bring  and collect coal wagons plus a small headhunt as per my earlier plans.

 

Looks quite good that  Gordon .    re. the space top left ... remember you need the running foreman's  office , mess rooms ,  oil/general stores , may be a fitting/ machine shop . and a sand drying house . And what about a water softener , water tank . I'm sure you could easily use the space up

Hope you can get a solution you'll be happy with .

 

Roy.