gordon s Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share Posted February 2, 2021 That’s probably why I never realised before, as the blades are certainly strong enough to handle continual switching from a Tortoise motor. In all those years, I cannot recall any joint failure or blade damage. Looking at a pic above, there are 25 sleepers between the crossing and the tie bar, of which 12 are soldered. This allows the blades to be very flexible which again reduces any strain on the blades or tie bar. It may be an issue on much shorter A or B turnouts with minimal radius, but at this size, not a problem other than purely visual. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted February 2, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, gordon s said: That’s probably why I never realised before, as the blades are certainly strong enough to handle continual switching from a Tortoise motor. In all those years, I cannot recall any joint failure or blade damage. Looking at a pic above, there are 25 sleepers between the crossing and the tie bar, of which 12 are soldered. This allows the blades to be very flexible which again reduces any strain on the blades or tie bar. It may be an issue on much shorter A or B turnouts with minimal radius, but at this size, not a problem other than purely visual. That's fair enough Gordon. Perhaps I should have said "rigidity" not "strength" - it's to stop the blade flexing at the end more than it should and thereby distorting the clearance as you move along the stock rail towards the crossing. You're probably right that this is less important on a C10 point than it would be on an A5 or B6, for example. As I say, Martin and/or John will be able to give chapter and verse. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share Posted February 2, 2021 I’m chuckling away to myself as it’s currently 03.40 in the morning here. Sadly the antibiotics I’m on have wrecked my sleep pattern, so I shall be glad to take the last ones tomorrow morning. Funny how such simple things get overlooked, so guilty as charged....... I guess the filing area is limited to the planing length and it’s only come to light from the close up pic. Thanks for raising it as I would never have known. Perhaps I’ll play around on the next turnout build and see how easy it is to do. As always, you’re never too old to learn..... 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted February 2, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 2, 2021 I agree with John, leave the foot on the rail. It makes it a bit harder to file that side (I use much the same method) on one blade or the other depending on whether you are left or right handed. I always keep a very sharp file just for this job. 1 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted February 2, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 2, 2021 7 hours ago, Regularity said: Wet or dry? They tend to swell up a bit. As long as you don't do your turnout construction in a pub, then dry, but having said that, it's best to keep using a different bit as the flux doesn't do it any favours in that regard. Mike. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, gordon s said: Totally intentional as I didn’t know any different...... I refer my honourable colleague to my ‘Disclaimer’ statement, but will see if it can be done. Thinking about it, the rail end would be hidden within the solder blob holding the rail to the tie bar, so perhaps the effort may not be worthwhile from normal viewing distances anyway...... I think this is a preference, I both prefer the look and the fact there is more metal to solder to the tiebar. But in the end the strength is determined by the quality of the soldered joint Also it helps when you have a society filing jig, but it took me a while to get used to it Edit You also head the head slightly thicker and make a 45 degree chamfer starting at the tip, returning to 90 degrees at the end of the planing, finally slightly round off the top corner. Both these actions make for a very smooth transition Edited February 2, 2021 by hayfield 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted February 2, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 2, 2021 Hi Gordon, If you use a solid soldered tie-bar, it is better to make the blade tip as thin and flexible as possible, to relieve stress on the fixing as the blade opens. With a solid fixing the blade is actually forced into a slight reverse S-shape when open, so removing the rail-foot helps. Providing there is sufficient rail thickness left to be soldered to -- it's a good idea with solid soldered blade fixings to reinforce the joint with a rivet or vero pin. If you use a pivoted tie-bar or a model flexible stretcher bar, it's important to retain as much stiffness at the blade tip as possible by leaving the rail-foot intact. Otherwise the open blade won't take up a prototypical curve and you would need an excessive opening to achieve a running clearance all along behind the open blade. The same applies if you model loose-heel switches with pivoting blades. Chapter and verse of that is at: https://85a.uk/templot/companion/real_track.php#planing_types How to file and fit the planing is at: https://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=2802&forum_id=6#p19571 cheers, Martin. 1 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share Posted February 2, 2021 Morning all, that was a surreal night chatting away about switch blades with St Enodoc in Australia, particularly as it started at 3.00am..... Thanks for all your input guys. I had a play around this morning and I managed to file one up as suggested, but it seems a lot of very careful work for a very small area. I hadn't ruled it out and it was the first attempt, so I'm sure I could improve. Thankfully Martin came to my rescue this morning..... If you use a solid soldered tie-bar, it is better to make the blade tip as thin and flexible as possible, to relieve stress on the fixing as the blade opens. With a solid fixing the blade is actually forced into a slight reverse S-shape when open, so removing the rail-foot helps. Providing there is sufficient rail thickness left to be soldered to -- it's a good idea with solid soldered blade fixings to reinforce the joint with a rivet or vero pin. Of course all my tie bar fixings are solid and the length of the blade on a C10 turnout is very flexible as there is 135mm of free blade between the last solder fixing and the tie bar itself. On reflection I'll carry on filing it flat and as always, ensure I have a decent fillet of solder between the rail and the tie bar......... 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted February 2, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 2, 2021 11 minutes ago, gordon s said: Morning all, that was a surreal night chatting away about switch blades with St Enodoc in Australia, particularly as it started at 3.00am Well, I found it quite a civilised thing to do after lunch! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted February 2, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 2, 2021 29 minutes ago, gordon s said: Of course all my tie bar fixings are solid and the length of the blade on a C10 turnout is very flexible as there is 135mm of free blade between the last solder fixing and the tie bar itself. On reflection I'll carry on filing it flat and as always, ensure I have a decent fillet of solder between the rail and the tie bar. If it ain't broke, don't fix it... 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 34 minutes ago, gordon s said: Morning all, that was a surreal night chatting away about switch blades with St Enodoc in Australia, particularly as it started at 3.00am..... Thanks for all your input guys. I had a play around this morning and I managed to file one up as suggested, but it seems a lot of very careful work for a very small area. I hadn't ruled it out and it was the first attempt, so I'm sure I could improve. Thankfully Martin came to my rescue this morning..... If you use a solid soldered tie-bar, it is better to make the blade tip as thin and flexible as possible, to relieve stress on the fixing as the blade opens. With a solid fixing the blade is actually forced into a slight reverse S-shape when open, so removing the rail-foot helps. Providing there is sufficient rail thickness left to be soldered to -- it's a good idea with solid soldered blade fixings to reinforce the joint with a rivet or vero pin. Of course all my tie bar fixings are solid and the length of the blade on a C10 turnout is very flexible as there is 135mm of free blade between the last solder fixing and the tie bar itself. On reflection I'll carry on filing it flat and as always, ensure I have a decent fillet of solder between the rail and the tie bar......... Far easier with one of these jobbies The EMGS suggest filing the backs first Then filing the heads off, which is what I now do , but I found the reverse easier. I may revert back to the old ways !! 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold lezz01 Posted February 2, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 2, 2021 Hi John. I think you have misunderstood the EM gauge society's advice on using the switchblade filing jig. The following is an extract from the manual sheet. MANUAL_1_2_1_3_PM_Master.p65 INSTRUCTIONS Decide on the type of switch rail you wish to make. Select two pieces of rail slightly longer than required and make sure one end of each piece is square and free from burrs. Place the rails in each of the two parallel grooves in the jig, with the squared ends laying flush with the appropriate end of the jig for the planing angle required. Make sure that the foot of each rail is facing inwards (towards each other) Clamp the rails with the screw and washer in the centre hole. Place the guide block over the rails. Locate with the pin and secure with the screw supplied. File off the head of each rail to the required angle keeping the safe edge of the file against the guide block. Filing is complete when the rail is flush with the angled face of the jig. Remove the guide block and both rails, and clean off all burrs. Replace the rails in the grooves with the filed surface facing downwards and the end of the rail flush with the end of the jig. Secure with the bolt and washer. DO NOT REPLACE THE GUIDE BLOCK, AS YOU NEED TO FILE OFF THE FOOT ON THIS SIDE. File both rails flush with the angled surface Remove the rails from the jig and clean off all burrs. Copyright EM Gauge Society. As you can see the destructions clearly state that the front of the blades should be filed first. I hope this clears up any misconceptions about using the jig. Regards Lez. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted February 2, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 2, 2021 How long does the file stay sharp using this? I keep separate files for brass, running them on steel soon takes the edge off them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold lezz01 Posted February 2, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 2, 2021 24 minutes ago, Michael Edge said: How long does the file stay sharp using this? I keep separate files for brass, running them on steel soon takes the edge off them. It all depends on what sort of files you are using. Regards Lez. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 32 minutes ago, Michael Edge said: How long does the file stay sharp using this? I keep separate files for brass, running them on steel soon takes the edge off them. Michael I have started buying Vallorbe files, not much dearer than cheaper ones, but both sharper and lasts longer. My 10 file which I use on the backs of the rails only last longer than the 6" ones, but they are used with NS rail as well. I use older files for other work Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold lezz01 Posted February 2, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 2, 2021 Well I use engineering 12" 2nd cut and smoothing files plus a very fine 8" warding file. I only use the 6" modeling and needle files for cleaning up. I also use a 10" bastard cut file that was my grandfathers so if you use real files and not those silly little things most people use then they will probably outlast not only you but your children as well. Cleaning is key to long life in files so buy a file card which is a wire brush specifically made for cleaning files. Toolstation do one for very little money and other places offer a similar product. I offer no apologies for using engineering tools as I was a toolmaker. I also have to say that when using this jig you are not filing steel, you're filing nickel silver so it should not affect the file at all. If it does then you need to by better files. Regards Lez. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post gordon s Posted February 17, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) Evening all..... Apologies for the lack of activity as I’ve been back and forth to hospital over the past few weeks. Managed to escape this afternoon, but this will be temporary break before returning. Bottom line is that I do have bile duct cancer and they have suddenly gone into top gear to get me through it. Yesterday saw them block off all the blood supply to the right side of my liver to make the left side grow quickly. Another four weeks and it will be back in to completely remove the right side along with any suspect bits. With any luck the left side will grow back to the size of the whole liver in three months and I should have the all clear. Of course this is not without risks and there are numerous possible complications.....but I’m going to get through this as I have the Seniors Championship in June and I’m determined to compete...... On the ET front, I’ve been doing odd bits between hospital visits. All the new crossovers have been built and I’ve made a start on the overhead lighting on the other side and both ends. The led strip lights make a huge difference and I know work will pick up once I can see what I’m doing..... Thanks for all your support over the past few weeks. I still can’t believe what’s going on, but the surgeons really know their stuff and I trust them to get me up and running again within months. Edited February 17, 2021 by gordon s 44 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted February 17, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 17, 2021 Sorry to hear about the diagnosis, but the prognosis appears to be very positive and your positive attitude will also help you through it, having an aim helps an awful lot. We want to see ET finished, you've kept us on edge for years. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted February 17, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2021 Amazing organ, the liver. Glad to hear that there is a plan to use this fact to help you get better! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Gordon Wishing you all the best, sounds like the best team are looking after you. Amazing what these doctors can now do 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted February 17, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 17, 2021 Gordon, Hope this modification to your plumbing goes well. Baz 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixoh8sixoh Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Good luck with the treatment, sounds like you’re in the best possible hands! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold lezz01 Posted February 18, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2021 Good luck and best wishes Gordon. This is at the John Radcliffe right? It's one of the best in the world for this sort of surgery if not THE best. We will keep you in our prayers nonetheless. Regards Lez. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Hi, Gordon! Long time no write by me. Sorry to hear of your BiL and your health issues - both you and the doctors sound very positive, however. I registered for the Covid 19 vaccine in New Jersey - then sods law prevailed and I actually got it! My doctor wanted me to go to our local hospital to get an infusion of anti-bodies. I was feeling too sick to go out and anyway we got 18 inches of snow the next day... As it happens it wasn't too bad for me feeling more like a nasty cold but lasting twice as long. Just getting over it but at least I don't have to worry about getting a vaccine for at least three months. Hopefully there will be plenty around by then. Best, Pete. PS What page are the latest photos of ET on? 1 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Wishing you all the best for both your surgery, and a speedy and full recovery, Gordon. Kindest regards, Scott 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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