North Devon line services in 1980s

[Rivercider]

Hi Rich

 

may be of use, I have a copy of West of England Sectional Appendix dated June 1980.

 

Page 195, an entry 'Mixed Train Working Barnstaple - Exeter St. Davids.

 

The train endorsed 'mixed' in the WTT may convey coaching stock and freight vehicles from Barny - St Davids

in accordance with the following (9) instructions:-

 

abbreviated

 

1, max 8 coaching, 15 freight attached rear

2, milk or dang goods not permitted

3, fully fitted, brake op on last 2 vehs

4, brake van in rear not req, guard ride in passr brake

5, max 420 tonnes

6, max length not exceed 38 slus

7, max speed 45mph

8, loco brake in 'vac goods position'

9, guard to prepare a dvrs slip.

 

cheers

[Fat Controller]

Hi Rich

 

may be of use, I have a copy of West of England Sectional Appendix dated June 1980.

 

Page 195, an entry 'Mixed Train Working Barnstaple - Exeter St. Davids.

 

The train endorsed 'mixed' in the WTT may convey coaching stock and freight vehicles from Barny - St Davids

in accordance with the following (9) instructions:-

 

abbreviated

 

1, max 8 coaching, 15 freight attached rear

2, milk or dang goods not permitted

3, fully fitted, brake op on last 2 vehs

4, brake van in rear not req, guard ride in passr brake

5, max 420 tonnes

6, max length not exceed 38 slus

7, max speed 45mph

8, loco brake in 'vac goods position'

9, guard to prepare a dvrs slip.

 

cheers

Curious that milk is listed as 'not permitted' as part of the train formation for these...

[Pennine MC]

The train endorsed 'mixed' in the WTT

 

Mmm, interesting

 

Curious that milk is listed as 'not permitted' as part of the train formation for these...

Had Milk traffic been "temporarily suspended" by June 1980? Could that be why?

At the risk of talking out of my @r$e again, I'd suspect that's got something to do with 6-wheelers not being permitted as part of passenger trains. There's been a recent thread on that

[Fat Controller]

 

Mmm, interesting

 

 

At the risk of talking out of my @r$e again, I'd suspect that's got something to do with 6-wheelers not being permitted as part of passenger trains. There's been a recent thread on that

But if it's a 'Mixed Train', then it's no longer a 'Passenger Train'...

Might it have something to do with the train brakes being in the 'freight' position?

[Rivercider]

Damn, now I'm going to feel guilty if I don't have a look to see if I have a WTT for that date....

 

unfortunately I can only find the following :-

 

WTT Section PC 3 May 1976 - 1 May 1977

 

2B99 07.35 SX 'mixed' Barnstaple - Exeter St. Davids (due 09.12) timing column reference SPL, Max speed 45mph

 

 

WTT Section PC 4 Oct 1982 - 15 May 1983

 

2B61 07.13 SX Barnstaple - Exeter St. Davids (due 08.22) timing load D385, 'double spade' instruction - must not convey 4 or 6 wheel vehicles.

 

cheers

[Pennine MC]

But if it's a 'Mixed Train', then it's no longer a 'Passenger Train'...

 

Well, it's still a 'train on which passengers are conveyed', but having found this post by Stationmaster Mike I'm going to STFU

[Ramblin Rich]

Thanks to Rivercider for the WTT information

 

I cant see what the TT says Rich cos the link doesnt work, but my understanding of a 'true mixed' is one including unfitted vehicles and thus requiring a goods brake in rear of said vehicles.

 

Oops - my bad, I corrupted the link when copying Matt's post, corrected now. It's not a full WTT, just passenger services plus the footnotes mentioned.

 

Point of procedure here - I've seen images of the Mallaig "mixed" in the 1980s with oil tanks behind coaching stock - but no goods brake, so must be fully fitted. Still a mixed train though I assume as the tanks wouldn't be passenger rated (unlike the Vanfits mentioned above)?

 

Really annoyed that I saw a picture of the Barnstaple "mixed" somewhere on Fotopic with (I think) 2 class 22s, the 2 Mk1 passenger coaches & a string of vans - of course that's now lost to posterity...

[Ramblin Rich]

Just going back to this question of trains from Lapford having to go on to Barnstaple to run round:

I've found an image of the fertilizer train at Lapford in 1992 in the book "Past & Present 53 - North & West Devon" with 37 038 in what looks to be "Dutch" grey & yellow! Interestingly the caption states "... 37038 has pulled empty wagons out of the siding on the left and is running round before taking them back to Exeter Riverside". Another book "Past & Present 8 - Devon" [published 1991] says "... a weekly fertilizer train which is currently the only freight traffic. The wagons are detached from the Sundays Ince UKF - Truro in Exeter Riverside Yard and then tripped as the Mondays 04.20 departure. This working has to be completed before the passenger service starts as it is not possible to lock a train into the yard since the closure of Eggesford box." Presumably this could run round at Lapford and return to Exeter as it had the line token. The Eggesford box closed in 1987 & the Barnstaple run round loop was also modified & shortened in 1990 so I assume the Fertilizer train needed to run as this out & back arrangement from 1987 - but I believe the Barnstaple goods yard closed around this time too.

(sorry if I've waffled here but helps me to clarify things!).

[Pennine MC]

Point of procedure here - I've seen images of the Mallaig "mixed" in the 1980s with oil tanks behind coaching stock - but no goods brake, so must be fully fitted. Still a mixed train though I assume as the tanks wouldn't be passenger rated (unlike the Vanfits mentioned above)?

 

That's an interesting point and I thought it might come up. Goodnight

 

Seriously, in some aspects a 45T tank could qualify as XP rated - in principle anyway. They were vac fitted (early builds, before air braking was specced) and they were 15ft wheelbase. Whether the *type* of vac brake made any difference, I'm not sure (I'm fairly sure some had the AFI brake, which worked differently and could have led to special measures when combined with passenger stock).

 

Having said that, at the time these tanks were being built in the mid '60s, the XP rating was probably lapsing into disuse due to generally increased train speeds on the network generally and speed restrictions on SWB stock like Vanfits; with the tanks being intended very much as as block train animals, I doubt anybody ever considered a need arising for mixing them into passenger trains.

[TomJ]

Whatever the precise definitions the trains are an awful lot more 'mixed' (and interesting) than today's sodding voyagers and sprinters!

 

I think it's what can make the 80s so intereting to model, the mix of modern stock with surprising survivors from earlier running on what is in many cases a steam era infrastructure

[Ramblin Rich]

Ian - thanks for clarifying some more re:XP codes & passenger rating. My guess is that the Mallaig line speed was such that as long as there was a continuous brake the train could run without a brake van. We could "debate" whether the Barnstaple train was "mixed" or merely a passenger & parcels train, but as Tom says above it's a damn sight more interesting than a unit train....

[bcnPete]

How's the track plan coming on Rich?

 

Loving the prototypical info for the background research but anxious to see your proposals now (drums fingers nerviously on the table)

[The Stationmaster]

Well, it's still a 'train on which passengers are conveyed', but having found this post by Stationmaster Mike I'm going to STFU

 

 

I'm away from home at present so can't check any West of England source documents but the 'Barnstaple Mixed' definitely is not a true 'mixed train' (if it had been such a train it would not have needed any Special Instructions although it is probable that by 1980 the Mixed Train General Instruction had been withdrawn so such a working could only be covered by a Special Instruction; I might be able to date that change when I'm home?). In practice what we are looking at is a passenger train with a very high content of tail traffic which is authorised to include certain shorter wheelbase freight vehicles but is still running fully fitted. The 'SPL' timing simply means that it is not timed against one of the normal passenger train timing columns (because it is speeed restricted)and the fact that it is running with the brake set to 'Goods' requires special authority as it is a train conveying passengers. So to summarise - not a true 'mixed train' in the proper definition of the term but something specially created for a particular operating situation which existed at that time.

 

Incidentally thanks to whoever (can't go back that far while I'm in this) for noting the alteration to the working of the fertilzer traffic. It was dropped at Riverside off the Ince& Elton - Truro and the change to teh working was partly as a result of signalling rationalisation on the branch and but was also tied up with revised loco diagrams if I remember correctly. Alas the details of such minor changes tend to get lost in the fog of memory of far more important things which were happening at the same time (and in any case the change was made before I took over the job - well that's my excuse ).

[Ramblin Rich]

Hold your horses Pete - I said up top this would be a long term thing!

Lapford would appear to be the obvious prototype - but the siding arrangement would make the layout about 3 feet wide so I'll be aiming at an "inspired by" arrangement as said earlier. I don't really want to completely scrap my aborted Tresarrick china clay layout so I may do a bit of chopping & changing to make it suit the scheme.

I've realised that all the freight at Lapford seemed to be handled on only 1 long siding - the other sidings were much shorter - but I'd like to have a couple of long-ish sidings to allow a bit of "wagon shuffling". The other essential in my mind are the characteristic 3-arch north Devon bridge like this one at Umberleigh on Andrew Bartlett's site. I'd also like to have a signal box - the one at Lapford went around 1970. I'll probably start off with a simple station building & maybe build a model of the Lapford buildings at a later stage - at least it was rendered, not stone work like most of the others! For some reason, Yeoford only had timber buildings, despite being an interchange junction, so perhaps a small timber building to start with...

Enough musing, back to work!

[bcnPete]

Hold your horses Pete - I said up top this would be a long term thing!

 

I know...just teasing Rich...it's just I'm in need of some fresh inspiration after getting in a right mucking fuddle with my dries of recent

[Ramblin Rich]

@ Mike (Station master) - thanks once more, have you considered writing up your memoirs at all? You always seem to have some useful "inside knowledge" on a very wide range of discussions....

[The Stationmaster]

@ Mike (Station master) - thanks once more, have you considered writing up your memoirs at all? You always seem to have some useful "inside knowledge" on a very wide range of discussions....

 

I think someone has already written 'I Tried To Run a railway' and I hardly dare compete with the great Gerry Fiennes Mind you practical articles on how things were really done might go down well and my career took me into most aspects of the operational railway over the years working at passenger stations, freight depots, parcels depots, freight and passenger yards and all sorts of other things (and I actually got paid for it - albeit not very much for many years).

[Ramblin Rich]

Mike, I'd be interested in that kind of article - whether it went into a magazine or book form, model or prototye press. I know others have done stuff on how goods services were organised ad run etc - but they seem to concentrate on the grouping era, wheras your "gen" is more the era I'd be interested in. You must have seen a lot of changes....

 

 

[Glorious NSE]

Just going back to this question of trains from Lapford having to go on to Barnstaple to run round:

I've found an image of the fertilizer train at Lapford in 1992 in the book "Past & Present 53 - North & West Devon" with 37 038 in what looks to be "Dutch" grey & yellow! Interestingly the caption states "... 37038 has pulled empty wagons out of the siding on the left and is running round before taking them back to Exeter Riverside". Another book "Past & Present 8 - Devon" [published 1991] says "... a weekly fertilizer train which is currently the only freight traffic. The wagons are detached from the Sundays Ince UKF - Truro in Exeter Riverside Yard and then tripped as the Mondays 04.20 departure. This working has to be completed before the passenger service starts as it is not possible to lock a train into the yard since the closure of Eggesford box." Presumably this could run round at Lapford and return to Exeter as it had the line token. The Eggesford box closed in 1987 & the Barnstaple run round loop was also modified & shortened in 1990 so I assume the Fertilizer train needed to run as this out & back arrangement from 1987 - but I believe the Barnstaple goods yard closed around this time too.

(sorry if I've waffled here but helps me to clarify things!).

 

Rich - I think i've figured it out. The bit we're missing is the "political" changes. The traffic to/from Lapford used to be part of the Speedlink network so was handled on the daily speedlink train that served Barnstaple, Lapford was shunted on the way there due to the layout so Lapford wagons would have run via Barnstaple at that point.

 

By 1992 it wasn't a speedlink train but a tripped portion of a block working - the train carried only Lapford wagons no longer needed to go to Barnstaple as all the traffic there was lost in the speedlink cull.

[The Stationmaster]

Rich - I think i've figured it out. The bit we're missing is the "political" changes. The traffic to/from Lapford used to be part of the Speedlink network so was handled on the daily speedlink train that served Barnstaple, Lapford was shunted on the way there due to the layout so Lapford wagons would have run via Barnstaple at that point.

 

By 1992 it wasn't a speedlink train but a tripped portion of a block working - the train carried only Lapford wagons no longer needed to go to Barnstaple as all the traffic there was lost in the speedlink cull.

 

 

Yep - it was the chemicals lot it belonged to (and don't forget the massive reduction of Speedlink in the early 1990s which took a lot of flows away in the West of England).

[Ramblin Rich]

Mike, Martyn - thanks again, I was trying to figure out whether the UKF traffic ran as a separate train in the Speedlink era, you've pretty much answered that!

I was hoping that it was a separate run as it would justify a 2nd freight train. I do wonder if there were "specials" just for UKF as this image on cyberheritage shows a rake of 7 or 8 PWA palvans - which I would have thought would be too much for other traffic as well... Seems a good excuse to me anyway

[Pennine MC]

. I do wonder if there were "specials" just for UKF as this image on cyberheritage shows a rake of 7 or 8 PWA palvans - which I would have thought would be too much for other traffic as well... Seems a good excuse to me anyway

 

Wouldnt surprise me if that happened at times of peak demand - Speedlink in its heyday was essentially a flexible operation and could cater for spot' loads

[Pugsley]

(and don't forget the massive reduction of Speedlink in the early 1990s which took a lot of flows away in the West of England)

8th July 1991 was the official end of the Speedlink network. There was the short lived Tiger Rail service after that, but I can't remember too much about that.

[Rivercider]

Just a further bit of info, I have found a copy of WTT Section PF 5th Oct 1987 - 15th May 1988

it has the following entries for the Barnstaple line, excluding Meldon services.

 

DOWN

 

6C50 04.20 MSX SLK Exeter Riverside - Lapford (due 04.59)

 

6C49 04.20 MO COY Exeter Riverside - Lapford (due 04.59)

 

UP

 

6C64 05.29 MSX SLK Lapford - Exeter Riverside (due 06.15)

 

 

 

Presumably the loco off 6C49 MO returned l//d, but is not shown.

 

 

As mentioned above I seem to recall that we did receive UKF traffic on ordinary Speedlink services

at Bridgwater, as well as on the booked company service.

Also as an aside, the Ciba Geigy traffic in TTA tanks from Duxford that went to Barnstaple for delivery to South Molton

was also handled at Taunton and Bridgwater at different times, the yard in use varied as the

freight service contracted, Bridgwater was I think, the last yard to handle it.

 

cheers

[The Stationmaster]

8th July 1991 was the official end of the Speedlink network. There was the short lived Tiger Rail service after that, but I can't remember too much about that.

 

When you look at stark dates it reminds you how time flies - that makes it 20 years, give or take a few days, since we sat down to consult in the end of Speedlink services in the West Country and to be asked such interestingly diverse (and no doubt intentionally awkward) questions such as 'what are you going to do about the Newlyn trawler fuel?' (a real killer that one as no one really had a clue what the bloke was on about and indeed a little bit of delving and some urgent 'phone calls revealed that there hadn't been any railborne fuel for Newlyn trawlers - unloaded at Penzance of course - for at least 10 years; but perhaps an idea for modellers despite that? Equally my explanation of how the Taunton cider would be dealt with brought forth a round of applause as I went through each move in detail and left everyone but an Exeter Guard totally in the dark as to how the job would be done - said Guard smiled cheerfully and said 'easy then, that'll be no trouble'). A sad day in many respects but the politicians wanted the end of Speedlink so that was what they got.