North Devon line services in 1980s

[Guest 34008Padstow]

Just caught up witht this rather intresting thread. In regards to the class 50s on DMU substitutes you can run 50042 on 3 mk1s. There is a picture in the exeter to barnstaple book (middleton press). I would reccomend it if you can find a copy

[bubbles2]

Open day at Bideford this Saturday http://www.rmweb.co....650#entry376650

 

I just posted some pics of a previous open day in 97 and some rather grainy shot of a special to Torrington in 75.

[Ramblin Rich]

Just caught up witht this rather intresting thread. In regards to the class 50s on DMU substitutes you can run 50042 on 3 mk1s. There is a picture in the exeter to barnstaple book (middleton press). I would reccomend it if you can find a copy

Thanks for that, there's also a pic of 50032 on the old RMweb forum - if that's the substitute, I'd hate to see the state of the DMU

 

@Kenny (Rivercider) - fantastic stuff thanks again, really appreciate you digging this kind of thing out!

@Bubbles - nice pictures on the other thread, the views of Torrington especially

 

 

 

[Rivercider]

You have certainly started something here, I have been impressed with a lot of the finds, suggestions and memories.

The whole route has a lot going for it, and several on the forum already seem to have got ideas, hopefully this will help some on their way.

 

It has been the basis of a couple of my past plans, they have not got beyond dreaming, but maybe one day...

 

cheers

[Ramblin Rich]

Well, I'd like to thank everyone who's contributed to this, it's certainly uncovered a lot more info than I dared to hope for and I am very grateful to you all

If it's triggered a few other RMwebbers to think about a North Devon location, all the better. We can start a "Rmweb Association of North DevOn Modellers" - R.A.N.D.O.M. for short...!

[Devonbelle]

What a fascinating thread. Rich has stumbled across my website North-Devon-Railways when he refers to the closure documentation - I cannot find the missing page - yet!

 

My late father John worked in BRs freight offices at Bristol when the line closed (1982)- volumes of clay on offer from Meeth and Peters Marland could not justify upgrading the line for air braked Polybulk / Tiger wagons (tops code PBA) - plus Landcross viaduct needed monies spending on it as did many sections of plain line - he gave me copies of official BR documentation - supporting all of the foregoing.

 

Clay in vac braked four wheelers ran for the last time I believe the first week of September 1982. The milk and fertiliser had already finished in 78 and 80 respectively.

 

From my time in BR ops, my understanding was that Lapford logs and Lapford other traffic (Polybulks - Grain and Fertiliser) would come via Barny only to simplify things operationally at Lapford. Cement was the last traffic at Barnstaple finishing in May 1987 - after that date traffic to Lapford ran as a trip working finishing in 1993 - a company train of fertiliser, a portion off the same working to Truro and Plymouth, from Ince & Elton.

 

The sidings at East Yelland Power station had their own loco until 1974 - see Flickr under Kingmoor Klickr for the only shot I have ever seen of the Yelland diesel loco. http://www.flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/

 

Freight at East Yelland by rail was very rare - coal normally coming by ship. The sidings were down certainly unti the last train to Torrington in November 1982 - I saw them from the last train - exchange sidings completely overgrown but lines around the PS immaculate. The last train to Torrington wasnt the last train of course - a final special (an all blue BR bubblecar) ran on 27-1-83 as far as Torrington - to assess the line for reopening. Tracklifting started at Meeth in summer 1984 - the industrial shunt locos remained at Peters Marland for quite a number of years after.

 

Paul aka Devonbelle

[Ramblin Rich]

Paul (Devonbelle) - thanks for waking up the thread useful inside knowledge on the reasons for not upgrading the Meeth traffic to airbraked vehicles.

 

There's a few images of the final special to Torrington on the "Cyberheritage" North Devon site (image 78 and image 81) with this comment:

One time I did get down to Instow was the last train which was a single unit conveying the Euro MP Lord O Hagan. ... a few photos of the unit on 27.01.1983 with Lord O Hagan visible sat on the left of the cab.

Presumably a "fact finding" mission to determine if funding could be obtained to keep the line open....

[Devonbelle]

The final train to Torrington on 27.1.83 was as Rich implies a fact finding journey, with lord o Hagan, councillors and BR officials. The official BR documentation I have states that by this time the line to Meeth was too unsafe for trains, with BR contemplating laying on the BR Barny branch wickham trolley, if lord O Hagan wanted to go to Meeth. In the end they had a car and driver at Torrington, who were not required.

 

Last North Devon freight aside from Meldon ballast was use of Crediton goods yard in 1999, I worked with colleagues in EWS and end customer Flexer construction who took ballast and grit by rail, in MEA wagons hauled by a 66 or class 37. Possible fertiliser to Barny was considered in late 90s and rail was considered for stone icw roadworks in the past 6 years but nothing came in the end by rail.

 

Paul

[Rivercider]

What a fascinating thread. Rich has stumbled across my website North-Devon-Railways when he refers to the closure documentation - I cannot find the missing page - yet!

 

 

 

Paul aka Devonbelle

 

Hi Paul, thanks for adding some more flesh to the bones of working over this route,

 

I had also previously read your North-Devon-Railways website, brought back some happy memories,

as I recall you were always interested in the freight side of things.

 

cheers

Kevin

[Pennine MC]

 

The sidings at East Yelland Power station had their own loco until 1974 - see Flickr under Kingmoor Klickr for the only shot I have ever seen of the Yelland diesel loco. http://www.flickr.co...ingmoor_klickr/

 

Thank you very much for that Paul, Yelland is one of those places that fascinates me. This link should go straight to it, Yelland MotorRail, it's a bit tucked away otherwise; though having said that the whole site looks worth a look

 

I dont suppose you know if Ken Baker has any plans to resurrect his N Devon Fotopic collection?

[Ramblin Rich]

 

Last North Devon freight aside from Meldon ballast was use of Crediton goods yard in 1999, I worked with colleagues in EWS and end customer Flexer construction who took ballast and grit by rail, in MEA wagons hauled by a 66 or class 37. Possible fertiliser to Barny was considered in late 90s and rail was considered for stone icw roadworks in the past 6 years but nothing came in the end by rail.

 

Paul

 

 

Thanks again Paul - I'd read about the Crediton stone traffic in "Past & Present - North & West Devon" - including the fact that, although it came from Okehampton, the signalling didn't allow the train to run round at Crediton so they had to go to Exeter Riverside, run round & return to Crediton! I hadn't heard about the other possibilities you mentioned, a shame they never came about but useful "ammo" for might-have-been scenarios.

[Ramblin Rich]

Back again!

While looking through the Derby Sulzer website to find suitable class 25 candidates, I rediscovered this image of the "mixed" train in 1978 within the section on the Exeter-Barnstaple route - it's the one I thought was somewhere on Fotopic so I'm glad I've stumbled on it again & bookmarked it! .

It's got double headed 25s, then a GUV, the 2 Mk1s mentioned in previous posts (BCK+SK) plus (I assume) the fruit D vans also mentioned earlier - to me, pretty much captures the appeal of the line in one picture

[Choppers]

Have just seen this thread today whilst supposedly 'working' the office. The north devon line is something I have been researching over the last year or so. I am afraid I can't offer any further insight into what has already been posted - but this thread has certainly inspired me. . My chosen period to model is also the late 1970's into the mid 1980's, with an emphasis on freight and locomotive headed passenger services. I have attempted to model some of the wagons/coaches, etc seen on the line, with moderate success!! Currently working up a model of Watergate Halt on the Torrington line at present (although it might just turn into a station!), after finishing my first test track/layout, supposedly set on the tarka line

Thanks for a great thread

[Ben04uk]

In conjunction with the current thread discussing the use of company posters on the the side of vans, can anyone confirm if perhaps Silcocks Animal Feed or more likely ICI Fertilizer wagon posters were ever on any of the Vanfits that were on freight services on the line in the 1970's? Would these have formed block trains with all Vanfits having the same company logo or would it just have been the odd wagon?

[Pennine MC]

In conjunction with the current thread discussing the use of company posters on the the side of vans, can anyone confirm if perhaps Silcocks Animal Feed or more likely ICI Fertilizer wagon posters were ever on any of the Vanfits that were on freight services on the line in the 1970's? Would these have formed block trains with all Vanfits having the same company logo or would it just have been the odd wagon?

 

Pretty sure that the fertilliser flow to Torrington was ICI, also that cuts of vans would be likely rather than odd ones, but the further you get into the 70s, the less likely it is that trader's labels would be applied

[Rivercider]

In conjunction with the current thread discussing the use of company posters on the the side of vans, can anyone confirm if perhaps Silcocks Animal Feed or more likely ICI Fertilizer wagon posters were ever on any of the Vanfits that were on freight services on the line in the 1970's? Would these have formed block trains with all Vanfits having the same company logo or would it just have been the odd wagon?

 

 

When I first started work in Bristol TOPS in October 1978, ICI Severnside (TOPS code 81212) were still loading out fertilizer for various destinations.

The traffic was in vanfits (never vanwides) and almost always in blocks of 10, for each destination.

The traffic was usually tripped to Kingsland Road, Bristol, and forwarded on ordinary services.

My WTT for 1976/77 shows 7B30 18.45 Avonmouth - Truro service, which would have taken the Torrington traffic as far as Exeter Riverside.

By 1978 Avonmouth Royal Edward Yard had closed, hence traffic went via Kingsland Road and Riverside.

 

Sorry I can't comment on the stickers, except to add that there was no dedicated pool of vanfits for the traffic, empties would come from all

over the Bristol Division, as even in the late 1970s about 40 vans a day were being loaded out by ICI.

.

 

cheers

Edited August 2, 2011 by Rivercider

[Ben04uk]

Thanks Rivercider, that is very interesting. From your recollection what type of the standard BR van did most of the vanfits for ICI fertilizer traffic comprise of in your time there? Were they mostly planked bodies with planked doors; planked bodies with plywood doors; or plywood bodies with plywood doors? Or was it just a complete mixture with broadly an even spread of all three types of standard van being used on the services?

 

Was there any freight traffic which had a destination in Cornwall which would have been included on the 7B30 Avonmouth - Truro service? Did you ever deal with anything from Bristol that went to Ponsandane Yard, Penzance or Hayle for example? If so, what wagons were used for this type of traffic?

[Rivercider]

Thanks Rivercider, that is very interesting. From your recollection what type of the standard BR van did most of the vanfits for ICI fertilizer traffic comprise of in your time there? Were they mostly planked bodies with planked doors; planked bodies with plywood doors; or plywood bodies with plywood doors? Or was it just a complete mixture with broadly an even spread of all three types of standard van being used on the services?

 

The vanfits loaded at ICI Severnside for Torrington, and the other destinations (Chichester and Wroxham spring to mind) would have been a mixture of any available empties of all the above still in traffic.

As I mentioned earlier they would not load vanwides (TOPS code VWV) at Severnside as they were not compatible with the loading system.

 

oops... my editing skills are lacking here (Rivercider)

 

 

Was there any freight traffic which had a destination in Cornwall which would have been included on the 7B30 Avonmouth - Truro service? Did you ever deal with anything from Bristol that went to Ponsandane Yard, Penzance or Hayle for example? If so, what wagons were used for this type of traffic?

 

By the late 1970s I don't recall any regular traffic loaded in the Bristol/Avonmouth area for the far west.

In my books I have photos of 16t minerals of coal to Ponsandane as well as the loco fuel, also fuel tanks and vanfits to/from Hayle Wharf.

 

cheers

Edited August 2, 2011 by Rivercider

[Devonbelle]

From books and video I have, vanfits to Torrington were a mix of types used for conveyance of fertiliser.

 

The other Hayle traffic of course was chemicals in vintage 4 wheel tank wagons, I have seen photos of them both in Stoke Gifford Yard and Cornwall in the 1970s. I will try and dig out the book for Ben04UK. The wagons were certainly 1950s vintage, by the 1970s they were in white, with an orange band, I don't recollect them coming through Yatton but remember the fertiliser traffic running, including Western haulage through my home village.

 

Devonbelle

[Pennine MC]

When I first started work in Bristol TOPS in October 1978, ICI Severnside (TOPS code 81212) were still loading out fertilizer for various destinations.

The traffic was in vanfits (never vanwides) and almost always in blocks of 10, for each destination.

 

 

You've mentioned this before Kevin and I never asked, but why were Vanfits preferred?

[Fat Controller]

You've mentioned this before Kevin and I never asked, but why were Vanfits preferred?

From the photos I've seen, the bags were loose stacked, and loaded/unloaded using a conveyor belt, with some one inside the wagon doing the final/initial hand-balling. From personal experience (unloading VTG vans), loose-stacked sacks and sliding wagon doors do not get on together- even if the sacks are carefully placed, Sod's Law means at least one ends up jamming the doors. Thus, cupboard-door vans would be preferable to sliding-door ones. The same principle applied to Guinness cask traffic until it went over to pallets.

The other thing is that fertliser traffic was highly seasonal- trips past Severnside in the 1970s bring back memories of long strings of Vanfits during the summer, whilst the sidings were virtually empty at other times. Vanwides were in demand for regular, normally palletised flows, such as the Rowntrees' flows.

At the beginning of the '70s, pre-nationalisation vans were often to be seen in the seasonal fertiliser and cattle-cake flows, along with things like 10t insulated vans and Meat vans, and even those ex-cattle wagons that the GW had modified for fruit traffic.- South-West Wales was served by similar trains to Devon and Cornwall.

[Rivercider]

You've mentioned this before Kevin and I never asked, but why were Vanfits preferred?

 

 

Sorry Ian I have no personal experience of seeing the vans loaded or unloaded, but the freight rolling stock clerk

was in our office, so I remember some of the conversations about vanwides being no good.

 

I have had a couple of conversations about the loading technique, and Brians reply sums up my understanding

of it and the possible problem with using vanwides.

 

cheers

[Pennine MC]

Thanks chaps, that all seems to make sense

[Fat Controller]

The 'ten-wagon-cut' suggests that the various customers would have been ordering just about enough to fill a Provender store; most yards would have had at least one of these.

[Devonbelle]

Ref the Vanfits used to/from Torrington, I have checked photos in books, of the Torrington fertiliser flow, planked and plywood vanfits in evidence, exclusively behind class 25s. No evidence in the photos of ICI stickers/labels in any of the photos I turned up.

 

Ref traffic to Hayle (also raised by Ben), according to Railway Archive number 16, Bromide traffic ran to/from Halye until1973, in Charles Roberts 4 wheel vac braked tank wagons, painted White with a orange horizontal stripe (indicating product in tank under pressure).

 

Devonbelle