Blackpool Central and the Railways of the Fylde

[Kal]

Hi

 

Sorry I do not know when the lines were actually removed between waterloo road and central.

 

Looking at the pictures of the locos on the link above, I can see where most of them were located as you can see Blackpool FC spion kop and west stand in the background behind a number of them.

 

 

Regards

 

 

 

Kal

[finelines]

Almost everything you want to know is in one or other of Stuart's wonderful books. As a child I visited Lytham often enough to be an honorary sand grown un. After all I am the grandson of a commuter who used the club train! Fairhaven lake was our regular haunt.

 

Although we rarely went to Blackpool these volumes are highly nostalgic for me. The nightime photos of Ansdell with the gas lamp almost bring the smell back to me. There are other books that contain sections about the Fylde.

 

I remember reading the article in the Evening Gazette that Central had been sold for a million pounds. Even to my teenage mind it seemed total lunacy!

 

Roger

[coachmann]

Was it the Club Train when it still had a club car? There was an L&Y one knocking about. We had a club train on the North Wales line. I used to catch it occasionally and it would get us into Manchester at 10.15. Really fast journey on the late afternoon return too, but Club Cars had long since dissapeared. The clientel must have had some clout when it went over to DMU's circa 1964, as it quickly went back to steam haulage using one of Llandudno Junctions well-polished Black Fives.

[finelines]

This was in the 1920s! I am not certain that he travelled in the club car, my mum said he didn't, but other members of the family said he did. He travelled as far as Bolton.

 

I believe the last remnant of the club train was the morning and evening train worked by transpennine units. I don't know when they finished but it started when they were doing the duties they were built for.

 

Roger

[Guest LNER Tom]

I noticed from aerial shots, the Kirkham flyover appears to have gone...understandable with the Marton Line now gone....but have the embankments for the fast line gone too?

 

Tom

[coachmann]

This was in the 1920s! I am not certain that he travelled in the club car

Not sure if the Blackpool LYR Club Car is restored on the K&WVR. Travelling in the 1920s must have been something knowing everything that was about at the time was pre-Stanier.... L&Y Dreadnaughts, LNWR 4-4-0s and 4-6-0s, not to mentioned the small tanks. Envy...

[buckdancer]

I've got "Memories of Blackpool - a nostalgic look at the Railways of Blackpool and the Fylde" by Barry McLoughlin.

It's an absolute goldmine but probably out of print as it still has the Severn Valley Railway Bookshop sticker and 5.99 on it.

I think I actually emailed him - he was the editor of one of the Railway Magazines (Backtrack?).

The reason was that I have always wondered whether Blackpool Central was like say Paddington in that it had tank engines etc bringing in and taking out empty stock.

My visits in the 60s concentrated on the shed at the expense of the station so I never got to observe operations.

I still don't know the answer by the way (he didn't know) although I suspect train-engines did the empty stock manoeuvres.

Sadly, being a Midlands based lad I didn't know about North shed so missed out there!

The Central/South area was breathtaking and unparalleled in size and amount of locos and stock so you'll need the next 10 years and 10 acres to model it and get the right feel.

It must have taken a smart bunch of people to have run the operations there....

I'll drag out the loco numbers for my 2 or 3 visits when I get the chance just for interest sake.

[Guest LNER Tom]

Very interesting buckdancer.... even I have been surprised at the sheer size of the yards around bloomfield road, and waterloo road...epic describes it!

It has been said that I'm mad to even contemplate the areas around central being modelled!

 

Please do post the loco numbers from your visits...and if you wouldn't mind the date too...might be helpful

 

I'm off to take some photos around my old stomping ground tomorrow...will post them in the thread when I get back

[finelines]

The memories of Blackpool book has been reprinted and therefor a second volume.

 

Although not relevant don't miss out the Southport and Morecambe volume of Stuart's series.

There is also a video of that includes the area but I can't remember the title.

 

Don't forget the last but one ever steam train went this way.

 

Roger

[Guest LNER Tom]

Although not relevant don't miss out the Southport and Morecambe volume of Stuart's series.

There is also a video of that includes the area but I can't remember the title.

 

Don't forget the last but one ever steam train went this way.

 

Roger

 

 

Hi Roger

 

Yep, got the Southport and Morecambe book on order...North West areas generally interest me regarding the last steam train....is it Southport or Morecambe it went to?

The fact the North West was steams last stand, I think is another reason I find it intriguing.

 

Tom

[finelines]

Liverpool exchange.

 

I made a mistake, thinking it was the same week as the 15 guinea special and missed it. At least I was on Ais Gill for Ollie.

 

Roger

[mirreles31]

Hi Tom, small world, although my roots and my modelling preferences are still grounded firmly in South Yorkshire I have lived near Kirkham for 18 years now, so have found your thread interesting. I don't know much about the railways round here so am learning from this. I thought you might be interested in this photo I took many years ago of Weeton Signal Box.

Can't remember when though it's either 1985/6 when my parents moved here and I came visiting or 1993/4 when I followed them. It looks derelict but the windows are intact and there's stuff inside? Hope it's of use cheers Phil.

[PhilNE]

Lancashire County Councils website has an excellent resource called MARIO (Maps & Related Information Online)

 

You can view maps of any area of Lancashire and the Fylde and view aerial photos from the 1960s, 1940s and now.

 

They are fairly detailed too considering the age.

 

Cheers

Phil

[Guest LNER Tom]

Lancashire County Councils website has an excellent resource called MARIO (Maps & Related Information Online)

 

You can view maps of any area of Lancashire and the Fylde and view aerial photos from the 1960s, 1940s and now.

 

They are fairly detailed too considering the age.

 

Cheers

Phil

 

What a stunning site! Thank you for sharing that Phil!

 

I've been studying (comparing with google earth today) the Kirkham Junction and seeing how the Marton line branched off....it appears the embankment for the flyover is still there...and one of the butraces for the flyover....what seems a shame is where the Church Road crossed over the Blackpool North and Marton Line to Great Plumpton...there used to be an multiple arch bridge over the Marton line...it appears the land has been flattened...and then the track bed becomes the M55.

 

Great site that...most helpful

 

Tom

[buckdancer]

Excellent site!

Looks like there were 2 turntables.

In the 60s map, there appear to be a number of locos at the head of stock ready to back down into Central?

Might have been taken on a summer weekend as there seem to be plenty of road coaches, although the shed doesn't seem to be particularly full.

There looks to be plenty of stock in Central but few locos.

You realise what a smart move it was having the Illuminations as this bought in the punters even late in the year.

[Jason T]

The below site is more for the purpose of walkers / mountain bikers but it does enable you to compare new OS maps against old ones on the same screen (amongst other useful functions). You can expand or contract the scales of each individually and where you put the arrow on one will show a pointer on the other. May be useful for tracing the course of closed lines, etc.

 

http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm

[Guest LNER Tom]

Thanks Sandside, I'll take a look at that

 

Well I've got back from my trip to Blackpool. My first top was Kirkham. I wanted to get a shot from the Railway bridge looking at the Junction layout.

 

Notice below on the zoomed in picture....you can see what is now old sidings on the left of the Blackpool North Line...but this was once the Fast line into Central....then on the far left, there is what was the embankment of the flyover for the fast line out of Blackpool Central...and look closely there is the buttrace for the flyover alonside the Blackpool North line. All felt rather sad really seeing what was once a major three way junction.

 

 

I will be posting my other pictures from today later

[thunderer08]

I've been studying (comparing with google earth today) the Kirkham Junction and seeing how the Marton line branched off....it appears the embankment for the flyover is still there...and one of the butraces for the flyover....what seems a shame is where the Church Road crossed over the Blackpool North and Marton Line to Great Plumpton...there used to be an multiple arch bridge over the Marton line...it appears the land has been flattened...and then the track bed becomes the M55.

 

Great site that...most helpful

 

Tom

 

Hi All,

Regarding the multiple arch bridge over the Marton line on Church road, I would speculate it's still there and the cutting was filled in around it, why demolish the bridge and have to close the road for a few months when work could be done around it.

One question would be, was the cutting filled with railway spoil, (the remaining short section of Marton line served a spoil dump) or was the it filled with motorway spoil?

Mick

[Tom D]

There are detailed track plans of Blackpool Central, North & South stations and Spen Dyke & Bloomfield Road in 'British Layout Plans of the 1950s' Volume 5 from the John Swift Collection, this book was published by the Signalling Record Society. I think it would be a tremendous undertaking to model, but that would be something to see.

 

Tom D

 

 

[buckdancer]

Thanks for the photos.

Not much symmetry to junctions these days is there?

So the sidings on the left of your first photo were for what do you think?

Overflow from Central/South and North?

Or just to replace the stuff removed from Central/South in case of excursions?

Be interesting to see what the layout is in the opposite direction too.

You realise what an important junction this was when you see photos like this.

[buckdancer]

More of Kirkham http://www.bafrua.connectfree.co.uk/achive.html

Plus more photos from the esteemed Arthur K - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/6933-br-london-midland-region-1950s-80s/page__st__75

[Guest LNER Tom]

Hi All,

Regarding the multiple arch bridge over the Marton line on Church road, I would speculate it's still there and the cutting was filled in around it, why demolish the bridge and have to close the road for a few months when work could be done around it.

One question would be, was the cutting filled with railway spoil, (the remaining short section of Marton line served a spoil dump) or was the it filled with motorway spoil?

Mick

 

You know Mick, that is really interesting....I guess it makes alot of sense to just fill the area in and keep the bridge in place completely covered. I had a look on google earth street view and there is no sign of it, but I'm guessing there wouldn't be, other than the road being rather straight at that point. Regarding the spoil...my guess would be M55 spoil, as before then....would the land around there have been touched before the M55 was started (guess we are only talking between 1967 and 1973) Very interesting.

 

 

There are detailed track plans of Blackpool Central, North & South stations and Spen Dyke & Bloomfield Road in 'British Layout Plans of the 1950s' Volume 5 from the John Swift Collection, this book was published by the Signalling Record Society. I think it would be a tremendous undertaking to model, but that would be something to see.

 

Tom D

 

Tom your a star! Thank you....just found a copy on amazon, just what I need. Does this give plans of the track layout at Kirkham also? Was the book designed to help railway modellers?

 

Thanks for the photos.

Not much symmetry to junctions these days is there?

So the sidings on the left of your first photo were for what do you think?

Overflow from Central/South and North?

Or just to replace the stuff removed from Central/South in case of excursions?

Be interesting to see what the layout is in the opposite direction too.

You realise what an important junction this was when you see photos like this.

 

I think you are right...the sidings at Kirkham used as an overflow for Blackpool North, Central and South's siding when they were full...mind boggerling to imagine that there could be no siding space at Blackpool!

 

Regarding layout in the opposite direction.... have a look at the pic below...still a lot of lines in 2011!

[Guest LNER Tom]

Here's some more of yesterday's pictures, now moving onto Blackpool itself.

 

Here we are, near the site of what was 24E 'Central Sheds' this was on the McDonalds, Odeon Cinema carpark, which I think was the site of the large Gasometer on the East Side of the railway line....this bridge, now carrying Seaside Way (how cheesy) clearing is something left over from the railway era.

 

The next picture was taken from the same shot, but looking towards the Central Station area....btw the Tower appears to be having work on it.... from a distance I wondered what was wrong with it!

[Tom D]

You know Mick, that is really interesting....I guess it makes alot of sense to just fill the area in and keep the bridge in place completely covered. I had a look on google earth street view and there is no sign of it, but I'm guessing there wouldn't be, other than the road being rather straight at that point. Regarding the spoil...my guess would be M55 spoil, as before then....would the land around there have been touched before the M55 was started (guess we are only talking between 1967 and 1973) Very interesting.

 

 

 

 

Tom your a star! Thank you....just found a copy on amazon, just what I need. Does this give plans of the track layout at Kirkham also? Was the book designed to help railway modellers?

 

 

 

I think you are right...the sidings at Kirkham used as an overflow for Blackpool North, Central and South's siding when they were full...mind boggerling to imagine that there could be no siding space at Blackpool!

 

Regarding layout in the opposite direction.... have a look at the pic below...still a lot of lines in 2011!

 

 

 

Hi Tom,

 

The book in question was apparently used to discuss signalling issues around the various sites, but it is extremely beneficial to modellers as it details track configurations, slips, trap and catch points etc. and also shows the type of signals in operation and their specific location.

 

With regard to Kirkham, it has all of the Kirkham layouts shown in detail, and perhaps a bonus for you is the front cover photograph (the only one in the book), which shows Jubilee 45718 passing Kirkham North Junction in 1962.

 

I would have liked to send you copies of the information, but I believe this would infringe on the copyright.

 

Tom D

[Guest LNER Tom]

Hi Tom,

 

The book in question was apparently used to discuss signalling issues around the various sites, but it is extremely beneficial to modellers as it details track configurations, slips, trap and catch points etc. and also shows the type of signals in operation and their specific location.

 

With regard to Kirkham, it has all of the Kirkham layouts shown in detail, and perhaps a bonus for you is the front cover photograph (the only one in the book), which shows Jubilee 45718 passing Kirkham North Junction in 1962.

 

I would have liked to send you copies of the information, but I believe this would infringe on the copyright.

 

Tom D

 

Hi Tom

 

Don't worry about it, anything like this I'm quite happy to buy the book, should be with me in the next few days. Out of interest, does it feature Salwick, in between Preston and Kirkham which also served the nuclear plant of springfields near by.

 

Cheers

 

Tom