The Nth Degree Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 How was it done? I'm thinking of the time when the D800 was introduced (late 50s). As I understand, a (X?) coach train left Paddington and along the way shed coaches at Newton Abbott and Plymouth to end up with 6 from there to Penzance. What happened at these detaching stations? Was it done by a steam loco or a diesel shunter? I assume these coaches were then attached to other trains and not stored in sidings until the train came back up again? How long did it take? Did the passengers stay on or did they have to wait on the platform? Lastly, what is a slip coach? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katier Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slip_coach is your friend But in simple terms it's 1 or more coaches detached without stopping to allow a service to intermediate station without the main express having to waste time stopping. It would, of course, be set down only - although according to wiki the carriage may be taken as a slow service to the next express stop on the line and re-attached - prejumebly to the next express through. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Summer 1958 down Cornish Riviera Mondays to Fridays was: BSK (Penzance) 4 SK RSO RF FK CK BSK Slip (Weymouth) - slipped at Heywood Road Junction So the only division was the slip coach. On Saturdays, the main train ran to St Ives, detaching a Penzance portion during a station stop (not sure where). In Winter 1958-9, there was no slip coach and the main train divided at Plymouth during the station stop. Formation was: BSK (Penzance) 2 SK RSO RF FK CK (conveyed 15/9/58 to 8/11/58 and from 11/5/59) BSK CK (Plymouth) BCK In both workings, all stock was Mark I except RSO, RF and slip. All was scheduled to be in WR chocolate/cream livery. The Cornish Riviera conveyed a Torbay portion for several years during the mid-1960s, though latterly this was confined to the Winter. Splitting of West of England trains for Plymouth/Penzance and Torbay was abandoned completely in 1969. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted April 16, 2011 Author Share Posted April 16, 2011 Wow! I had no idea this was done, or even COULD be done! Brings to mind some sort of 1960s St Trinians caper. Thanks for the link Katier, didn't think to look there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted April 16, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 16, 2011 Any detachment would have been the case of undoing the couplings etc then removing the coaches from the platform once the parent train has left. The coaches may well have stayed in the station environs. Back then some coaches saw very very limited use (sometimes summer weekends only). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted April 17, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 17, 2011 This just struck me: were slip coaches turned for the up journey or run backwards to Paddington? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Here are the Summer 1958 slip coach workings: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted April 17, 2011 Author Share Posted April 17, 2011 Amazing info, thanks Robert. So all were double ended slips - did they look like double ended brake coaches? Were they manned permanently or did the brakeman stay somewhere else until needed? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted April 18, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 18, 2011 Would have been manned I would have thought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 18, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 18, 2011 Amazing info, thanks Robert. So all were double ended slips - did they look like double ended brake coaches? Were they manned permanently or did the brakeman stay somewhere else until needed? When a train conveyed a slip section (or sections - the maximum permitted number of slip sections seems to have been three at one time) in addition to the train Guard there was also a Guard - known as a Slip Guard - on each slip section. It was the latter's job, in conjunction with the Guard, to check that the slip connections were all properly made and, at the last booked calling point before the slipping location, to remove the safety pins to make the gear ready for slipping; he then operated the slip gear and controlled the slipped coach to a safe standstill either in the station platform (e.g. an Up direction slip at Reading where coaches were slipped on the Up Main Platform Line= Platform 5) or wherever it was supposed to stop ready to be collected by another engine for its onward working (e.g. the Weymouth portion slipped off the Down 'Limited' at Heywood Road, which was collected by the Westbury passenger pilot). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 I think its time I wrote up Slip Coaches for Model Rail. There's lots to understand, of course, including the special tail lamps and how they were arranged for one or more slip portions, the types of coaches - including the Hawksworth brake compo conversions, and (though its of not much practical interest to modellers) the brake pipe arrangement which prevented the train from being stopped when the vac brake pipe parted. And how the brake was then applied in the slip coach. The whole process was fascinating but, like water troughs, its something that preservation isn't ever likely to replicate, nor is it something which is easy to model. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 18, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 18, 2011 I think its time I wrote up Slip Coaches for Model Rail. There's lots to understand, of course, including the special tail lamps and how they were arranged for one or more slip portions, the types of coaches - including the Hawksworth brake compo conversions, and (though its of not much practical interest to modellers) the brake pipe arrangement which prevented the train from being stopped when the vac brake pipe parted. And how the brake was then applied in the slip coach. The whole process was fascinating but, like water troughs, its something that preservation isn't ever likely to replicate, nor is it something which is easy to model. CHRIS LEIGH Good idea Chris - give me a shout if you need any information although I can only go back in GW operating instructional detail to c.1919 but possibly some Minute Book stuff back to 1911 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 A lot of slip coaches didn't need to be turned as they weren't slipped in the up direction, although Robert's slip coach workings above show some that were slipped in both directions. If you go a bit earlier, the 1935 Centenary set was designed to have a brake compo to be detached at Truro for Falmouth and a second one to be detached at St. Erth for St. Ives. These were marshalled at the rear of the train so it was primarily a matter of detaching the coach(es) and moving the tail lamp. Regarding slipping, the GWR book 'The 10:30 Limited' had a chapter on it (I'm pretty sure it was that one, not one of the other books). Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 I like it when my topic turns out to be useful or inspires something. As a complete novice, this is a rarity! I will look forward to reading anything published. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted April 18, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 18, 2011 a bit before your chosen time frame, but a couple of interesting articles from around 1935 that you may like.. a look at the CRE: http://mikes.railhistory.railfan.net/r017.html slip coaches: http://mikes.railhistory.railfan.net/r134.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Very interesting topic. To slip in model form would probably only work for those using DCC as you would have a motor in the slip coach and an electronic uncoupler from one decoder. Or if all was free running coach just an uncoupler and a DCC controlled brake. Brakes are easy as Stan Ames book has a method of doing this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted April 19, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 19, 2011 To slip in model form would probably only work for those using DCC as you would have a motor in the slip coach and an electronic uncoupler from one decoder. Or if all was free running coach just an uncoupler and a DCC controlled brake. Brakes are easy as Stan Ames book has a method of doing this. Most model coaches don't have the mass that would be needed to represent slip workings very well, so as you say a motor could be used. The other option could be the use of a flywheel. Would make the "driving" of the coach more realistic as you would only have a set amount of energy to get you to the station, use your brakes to much and you'll need to get a loco to recover the coach, then to deal with the late passengers, oh and the management Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Bear Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Don't think this has been covered: What happened on the "Up" workings, how were the slip coaches returned to Paddington? On separate trains or did trains stop for a pilot to attach the coaches? Did the "up" train make additional stops and start with more coaches or did it run through back to Paddington with less coaches the whole way? An interesting subject and look forward to Chris' article in due course. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Don't think this has been covered: What happened on the "Up" workings, how were the slip coaches returned to Paddington? On separate trains or did trains stop for a pilot to attach the coaches? Did the "up" train make additional stops and start with more coaches or did it run through back to Paddington with less coaches the whole way? An interesting subject and look forward to Chris' article in due course. Jon If you look at the extracts that Robert posted, the information is in there. Example - slip working #4 Coach is slipped from the 5:10pm from Paddington at Bicester (every day except Sunday) It is then conveyed from Bicester to Banbury at 6:25pm It is then attached to the Paddington train that passes through Banbury at 8:25am the next morning Or slip working #6 On Mondays it is slipped from the 8:15am from Cardiff at Didcot, on other days it is slipped from the 4:55am from Fishguard It is then conveyed from Didcot to Swindon at 1:15pm It is returned to Cardiff on the train that passes through Swindon at 3:20pm (left OOC at 12:45pm), except on sundays when it is on a different train. It isn't clear how it gets to Fishguard (or whether it is picked up in Cardiff) Slip working #2 is even more interesting because there are two coaches on the loop since it takes more than a day for each coach to finish its loop It is slipped at Heywood Rd Junction from the 10:30am from Paddington (the CRE, I think) It is then conveyed to Westbury at 12:10pm It is then conveyed to Weymouth at 12:42pm It is then conveyed to Bristol Temple Meads at 7:30am (the next day - the second coach is on the 10:30 from Paddington this morning) It is then slipped at Reading from the 1:50pm from Bristol It is then conveyed to Paddington at 4:04pm, to be ready for the 10:30am train, two days after it left. The 1935 CRE that dropped coaches at Truro and St. Erth (not slips), picked them up on its return run. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Bear Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 If you look at the extracts that Robert posted, the information is in there. Oops, sorry. But your text has made if a lot clearer to me now. Thanks. Seeing as the workings of the slip coaches back was oftern somewhat complicated, what then did the returning passengers do? Was there a correspondingly fast way back to London via an additional direct service or would one have to change trains. Apologies if this is another silly question. The whole concept seems to be heavily biased to one's outward journey not the return but from a marketing point of view I guess that was the point; how fast we get you to the seaside not how fast we can return you to mundane everyday life. Also it seems like with the additional staff required, presumably some additional cost of maintaining slip coaches, possibly additional engine movements a lot of operational hassle, which presumably is why it was stopped: when was that in the austere years post war and into the 1950s? Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R A Watson Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 With regard to the detatched coaches these were moved by the station pilot loco and in the case of Plymouth placed on the sidings to the north of platform 8. As both East and West boxes were capable of controlling their individual ends simultaniously the pilot was able to sneak up onto the back of the down train and remove the coach whilst the train loco was still attached at the other end, and probably using the break to take water. Sometimes the train loco was detatched and replaced by a fresh one at the front end whilst the coaches are being removed at the rear. In the up direction the fresh loco was attached to the strengthening coach(es) in the siding and then reversed onto the train once the Cornish loco detatched. You don't see this happen very often with the H S T's these days! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted April 19, 2011 Author Share Posted April 19, 2011 What an interesting job to have - slip coach driver. Were they engine drivers approaching retirement or trainees? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 19, 2011 What an interesting job to have - slip coach driver. Were they engine drivers approaching retirement or trainees? Have a look at the 'invisible ink' in Post No.10 in this thread! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted April 19, 2011 Author Share Posted April 19, 2011 Invisible ink?... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 19, 2011 Invisible ink?... A term sometimes used on here when something which has already been explained appears not to have been read. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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