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Rivet Press tool - is there a review of available types?


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Hi,

 

I'm modelling in 7 mm and am looking to buy a rivet press tool. I've tried searching the forum and found a few references but have not managed to find a review of the different types available. If there is such a review could someone kindly direct me. Failing that comment on individual types would be useful. I think I'm looking to a lever type rather than a drop type. A selection of anvils (hope that is the correct term) would be useful.

 

Many thanks

 

DaveC

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I know of no reviews in the press and only know of two types available - the drop weight type (as available cheaply from London Road Models) and the lever type from GW Models) see here for out of focus images.

 

The GW Press is excellent for all scales and can be supplied with different sized anvils and punches. I have the complete set as scale is not a limiting factor for me. I would not be without it. The table is very precise and if you are good at maths you can even rivet in circles. It does have a few limitations - the size of the table clamps make it difficult to do a 7mm tender side in one run (you just run out of thread on the verniers) The other slight problem is that the anvil can become a bit sticky - especially the 4mm one for some reason and if you are not careful you can bend the fret as the rivet sticks in the anvil.

 

It is one of those tools that probably only worth buying if you use it really regularly.

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Hi Dave, not having done any rivet work before tackling a brass and resin class 76 in O gauge, I wss a bit unsure of how it would go.

Only a couple of weeks before we started on them, one of our members bought a G W tool (I think) from someone on RMweb.

I found it incredibly easy to use, there are, if I recall correctly, anvils for 2, 4 and 7mm. Once you have set it up the stops ensure that all the 'rivets' come out the same.

The results can be seen on my 'occasional' workshop thread here;

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/21861-o-gauge-class-76/page__p__216140__fromsearch__1#entry216140

 

All of the rivets were done in one session of a couple of hours.

 

Just been looking through that thread, it's been nearly two months since I've had time to do anything on it, Nottingham show come and gone then Trainwest, needed me to sort out my OO stock, including 15 class 76s.

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Anyone have any idea of relative costs of each type. The 'tools' I use are stone-age like a honed dart slapped it with a pair of Xuron cutters!

I think the GW was about £96 and the 4mm LM Drop weight less than £10 - they are worlds apart in performance but difficult to justify the expense if it just sits around collecting dust.

I used to use a copper pin and a panel hammer - that still works fine but can be a bit hit and miss until you get into the swing (rhythm)

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Something like this will do the job - because the 'spring' can be adjusted you can get consistent depth of punch. the only limiting factor will be your ability to mark off the spacing of the rivets.

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Narrow Gauge and Industrial Railway Modelling Review issue 83 (which came out about 6 months ago) included a revue of the GW Models rivet press and wasnt particularly impressed (pun unavoidable) with it.

 

That prompted me to look further afield. Everyone who has had contact with the beast praises the NorthWest Shortlines press to the skies but it is astronomically expensive.

Further Googling found the Micromark version, which as far as I can tell is exactly the same as the NorthWest Shortlines press but half the price.

 

Mine arrived yesterday. I havent yet had a chance to use it but initial examination is encouraging.

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Forgot to mention, the Metalsmith rivet embossing tool is £60.75. Additional anvils & punches are £15 odd per set. Seems to work in a similar way to my trusty old Double L Leaky embossing tool but not using a fly crank. Theirs is a lever.

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Many thanks to everyone that has replied.

 

Hopefully I can see a rivet press at Halifax (if not York) before buying. Still not sure which of the three to choose: GW, Metalsmiths or the Lee Marsh.

 

Many thanks

 

 

DaveC

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Hi,

 

I'm modelling in 7 mm and am looking to buy a rivet press tool. I've tried searching the forum and found a few references but have not managed to find a review of the different types available. If there is such a review could someone kindly direct me. Failing that comment on individual types would be useful. I think I'm looking to a lever type rather than a drop type. A selection of anvils (hope that is the correct term) would be useful.

 

Many thanks

 

DaveC

 

Mod Rail Illustrated Vol 1 number 6 has a review of the NWSL rivet press.

Never seen one though.

 

MRJ 103 & 104 has review of GW odels type

 

MRJ 116 for Micromark (US) rivet

 

MRJ 120 for handmade drop type.

 

Kevin Martin

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The London Road Models device is a "rivet embosser" intended solely for embosssing half etched rivets consistently. It was originally devised for that purpose by John Hayes and described in MRJ. Although I have one, I have found that a suitable honed punch, used with a 2oz hammer (much more sophisticated than Coach :D) also works very well.

 

Rivetting tools or presses have a punch and an anvil or dolly and will produce rivets on full thickness material. I also have a GW Rivet Tool and have found it quite satisfactory for 4mm use, on the admittedly rare occasions I have needed to use it.

 

Jol

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The beauty of a rivitting tool is that once you set it up the rivits will be similar sized too easy to vary them using a hammer and a nail(or similar). Mine's a Metalsmith its fine but I haven't tried any others.

Don

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Hello All,

 

I seem to remember that this was discussed a while back, maybe 6months ago.

I've used one from Graskop, it has four anvils and punches and works with a drop hammer, it can be used from 4mm up to maybe 10mm scales. Nothing fancy but it does the job, the build date on it is 06/08/92 and I still use it.

 

OzzyO.

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  • 2 years later...

What size and type of punch is required for punching out 4mm scale rivets ? The dedicated tools for doing this job seem quite expensive.

 

Would something in this metal punch set do the job ? The small one on the right looks promising.

 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Finkal-Centre-Punch-Set-Round-Head-4-Piece-CPS104-/310405298572?pt=AU_Hand_Tools&hash=item484598f98c

Edited by brian777999
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What size and type of punch is required for punching out 4mm scale rivets ? The dedicated tools for doing this job seem quite expensive.

 

Would something in this metal punch set do the job ? The small one on the right looks promising.

 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Finkal-Centre-Punch-Set-Round-Head-4-Piece-CPS104-/310405298572?pt=AU_Hand_Tools&hash=item484598f98c

Now let's put some thought to this: A rivet head in 1:1 scale is about 0.5 inch across so in 4mm:ft about 0.15mm and is raised from the surface 1:1 by about 1/8 inch (approx 0.05mm).

 

The punches on the GW press are assisted by an anvil into which the rivet is formed. Even in 7mm the 4mm anvil is quite sufficient and it entirely depends on how much presence you want the rivets to have. The 7mm press I consider as over-scale but does produce flatter looking heads.

 

I think even the smallest of those punches would be far too big. Also using them would be heavy handed. Certainly in 4mm the brass etch is very thin and there is a real risk of perforating the brass. I managed for years with a copper (soft metal) panel pin and a hammer (fine metal working hammer) only the lightest of touch being required and the copper pin with a slight flat filed on the point. But it was tediously difficult to position and the process is boring enough without the routine of managing the impact.

The GW press controls the pressure and therefore depth of the "press" the anvil taking care of the shape. Its adjustable carriage and vernier control on positioning enable very precise positioning. I punch far too many on an almost daily basis to be without it but it is still one of the most mind blowingly boring jobs.

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Hello Kenton all,

 

I think that you maybe a bit on the small side with the rivet head,  I've just had a quick look at a tender drawing, on the step tread these are held onto the backing sheet by 5/8" rivets (the rivet size is not the head size but the body size) as a rule of thumb the head size is about 1 1/2 times the size of the body so this would give a head size of 15/16". In 4mm this would be approx 0.3mm and in 7mm approx 0.5mm.

 

After having had a look at the tender drawing for a Princess, the rivets on most of the tender body work are 9/16" so that would give a head size of 27/32" (approx 0.275mm in 4mm, in 7mm 0.5mm). The rivets that are sized on the boiler drawing are 15/16" so that would give a head size of 1 13/32" (approx 0.46mm in 4mm, in 7mm 0.85mm).

 

The amount that the rivet is above the surface can vary from '0' on a countersunk rivet to approx 1/2 the dia. for a snap head rivet. There's one type that is part countersunk and part snap head that I've forgotten the name of.

 

So the 5/8" rivet would be above the surface by approx 5/16" (in 4mm 0.1mm, in 7mm 0.18mm, approx.) and the 9/16" by approx 9/32" (in 4mm 0.12mm, in 7mm 0.2mm). The 15/16" by approx 15/32" (in 4mm 0.16mm, in 7mm 0.29mm).

 

A lot of it's academic as if we were to make the rivets (a lot of the time these are bolt heads) to true scale sizes you would be hard pushed to see them.

 

So to get the best out of a riveter, you need a number of anvils (more is good) and some way of adjusting the force (drop hammer or setting screw). As most riveting tools only have four anvils the only way that we can make some rivets look bigger than the next is to make them stand out more.

 

HTH

 

OzzyO.

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OzzyO

 

Thank you. I am very grateful for the more intelligent analysis of reality. I'm afraid my estimates were off the top of my head without direct reference and should be ignored.

 

However, I do believe the gist of what I was saying was true. We do tend to over-scale them for appearance sake, though those punches look too heavy.

 

The GW press has an adjustable arm/pivot that give some control and consistency to the pressure applied to the punch+anvil. There are 3 punches and anvils and no doubt more sizes could be made.

 

Of course this production of rivets is itself only a representation. The process deforms the brass, especially where there are no half-etched dimples to work with and designed correctly into the etch. A surprising omission with some kits where the dimples are near random in number or worse are etched on the wrong side of the etch!

 

Probably t he best representation is to drill holes for brass wire and to solder the wire in place before trimming - and if you think punching rivets is tedious just try that game for ultimate insanity.

 

Then there are the transfers that are available - sort of goes against my principles of "all metal" but they do look quite fine in appearance, in the larger scale.

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Probably t he best representation is to drill holes for brass wire and to solder the wire in place before trimming - and if you think punching rivets is tedious just try that game for ultimate insanity.

 

Agreed about the insanity aspect, but the bits of wire method is probably best confined to loco headstock and smokebox saddle boltheads (which were not 'rivets' of course).

 

But then it's only mad people like 7mm modellers who need to worry about that sort of thing...

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The late and great Mel Hodges (his 4mm riveting was to die for) used a much-modified watchmaker's mainspring punch, but a good one will probably cost you an arm and a leg. Also in the arm and a leg league is the Tony Reynalds riveter set (special order only, and I'm not sure he even does them now), but it's probably the best in the biz.

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OzzyO

Thank you. I am very grateful for the more intelligent analysis of reality. I'm afraid my estimates were off the top of my head without direct reference and should be ignored.

However, I do believe the gist of what I was saying was true. We do tend to over-scale them for appearance sake, though those punches look too heavy.

Probably t he best representation is to drill holes for brass wire and to solder the wire in place before trimming - and if you think punching rivets is tedious just try that game for ultimate insanity.

 

Then there are the transfers that are available - sort of goes against my principles of "all metal" but they do look quite fine in appearance, in the larger scale.

 

Hello Kenton all,

 

thanks for the reply, we do tend to over emphasize (is that spelt correctly?) the size of rivets, boiler bands, lining and much more. If it was good enough for Stan Beason he would over emphasize the curve on chimneys and such to make it look right. It should be good enough for us.

 

As you say possibly the best way to represent rivets is to drill holes and fill them in (nut house approaching). If you think embossing them is bad (at least that's only a few visits to the nut doctor [i cant spell psychiatrist]). If you want to drill all of them 0.3mm holes (just think how many drills you will go through) the best thing that you can get to fill them in with are some rivets that you can get from the U.S.A. from a company called Scale Hardware. About four or five different sizes are available. They also do hexagon nuts and bolts, square nuts and bolts, both non-working I may add.

 

Transfer rivets, what a god send for some jobs. Like this one.

post-8920-0-01648000-1379075836_thumb.jpg

 

The job was part (OK a fully built turn table) when I got it. But then to mark out all of these rivets and then emboss them would have been mad (and I'm on the edge now), but to drill them all out????????? When we put it in place in its temporary home you cant see them, you may when it goes into its proper home.  

 

OzzyO.

 

PS. to the OP get what you can afford, but I would say, get the best that you can afford. Also get one that you can calibrate for consent sized rivets nothing looks worse than badly formed rivets and deformed sheets of "flat" metal. Apart from wonky lines of straight rivet runs.

 

PPS. Kenton it's not a Vernier that you have on your rivet press it is an index wheel this works by dividing the pitch of the screw thread in to parts. So if the pitch is 1mm and the wheel has 50 divisions one division = 0.02mm

This is a Vernier gauge. Sorry to go OT. but how it work may help some. On the bottom scale. The sliding scale 1mm (50 division's = 49 on the fixed scale) so when you take a measurement the best that you can get is 0.02mm. so the reading on this photo is 0mm and 0".

post-8920-0-58944000-1379080811_thumb.jpg

 

In this photo the calliper is showing 20.82mm and 0.820" to read it you start with the large number 20 in this case, then the large number on the sliding scale 8 in this case then you look for the lines that line up it looks to be the next one so as the scale is in 0.02 increments the reading is 20.82mm

post-8920-0-46847000-1379080823_thumb.jpg

 

One just for a bit of fun.

post-8920-0-82972500-1379080829_thumb.jpg

 

All of this is academic now, as most people have digital callipers. When I was using these things at work we nicknamed them very nears, you could get three or four people to read them and we all could get a different reading.

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So what to do ? What can I buy from a large hardware store (Bunnings) that will do the job for me ? Perhaps even a  jeweller's tool of some description ?

Have you the ability to make a drop-riveter?

 

A piece of M6 studding, about 4 M6 nuts, an M6 washer, a drilled piece of steel or brass block and half an hour of your time.

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Caliper - vernier - (heck I've been educated!) ;)

 

Here they are on the GW press one for each direction.

 

gwpress.jpg

 

I still use a micrometer along with the digital calliper. Some people never modernise.

Edited by Kenton
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