Guest Max Stafford Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 That's what made me think Bernard. All Hawick's J36s seemed to have tender cabs. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 (edited) Gents, I already did a scour of Kenneth Gray's shots using every permutation of Railscot's search function, and there aren't any more featuring the 2-6-0 buffered upto a J-thirtysomething in that spot, sadly. That's not to say that none exist, of course. Edited October 28, 2011 by 'CHARD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
62440 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Gents, I already did a scour of Kenneth Gray's shots using every permutation of Railscot's search function, and there aren't any more featuring the 2-6-0 buffered upto a J-thirtysomething in that spot, sadly. That's not to say that none exist, of course. from the horse's mouth: I don't specifically remember the photograph and don't know the number of the 0-6-0 but it was the J36s that mostly had tender cabs because of their use as bank pilots. The one in the photograph is a J35, not a J36. The J35 is in the short lye with a BR Standard Class 2MT to the rear of it. Behind it is what looks like J36 65331 as it DOES have a tender cab and was the only Hawick one to have a rounded tender cab. Hawick had three J35s - 64463, 64494 and 64509 - and the one in the photograph is almost certainly one of those three although locos of that class from St. Margarets and other depots did occasionally appear. However if the one in the photograph had been a visitor I would almost certainly have photographed it separately so it is almost certainly one of the Hawick three. QED 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Thanks Bruce. I was pretty sure of it being a J35 and thank you also for the numbers of the Hawick locos. I have one of these awaiting construction and I now have an appropriate set of locos to research. However, I need to get on with completing your (RMweb) namesake first! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 There you are, mate: I've got the Haymarket Nine (Brush), and now for your delectation, the Teri Three. Great shout there Mr M! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roygraham Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 APOLOGY. In posting the comments about the School Train from Newcastleton to Hawick etc earlier last year I failed to acknowledge that the original author was Andrew Bethune. The information also contained an error in that references to the 'fat' bus should in fact refer to the 'fast' bus. so called because it didn't stop en route not because it broke any speed records. My apologies for these errors and omissions. roygraham 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyC Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) While doing some research into Waverley Route train formations for a layout I came across this one in 'The District Controller's View'. 1953 timetable 22:15 Waverley to Carlisle, Class 'A' train Loco A4 [Class 8 engine needed due to load] Parcels vans for: Carlisle, Sheffield & Bristol. Fish Vans for: Leicester, Nottingham, Birmingham, Sheffield, Leeds, Bradford, Liverpool, Manchester, Wigan & Carlisle. The train also included two passenger coaches advertised to Hawick, but running forward to Carlisle as ECS. The A4 returned to Edinburgh on the 04:08 Carlisle Edinburgh parcels. Now the question, does anyone know what type of fish vans would be used e.g. LNER / LMS or being BR days a mixture? Jeremy Edited January 26, 2012 by JeremyC 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveArkley Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 The train also included two passenger coaches advertised to Hawick, but running forward to Carlisle as ECS. Jeremy, Are they the only coaches in the consist or are others mentioned? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Hmmm, can't answer your direct questions chaps, but a counterpart service was still running until the final T/T of the line AFAICT. The headcode changed from an ScR internal to a 3M inter-regional at Teri. The loco likewise returned with one of the News trains. We need a formations book at this point. For obvious reasons, these trains' machinations were seldom recorded, and I've yet to see a photo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyC Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Jeremy, Are they the only coaches in the consist or are others mentioned? No other passenger coaches mentioned, my post more or less quotes from the book [page 67 if anyone has it]. Jeremy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) No other passenger coaches mentioned, my post more or less quotes from the book [page 67 if anyone has it]. Jeremy Thanks for the reference, JC. It's not to hand just now, but I'll gather it round me for nightcap reading (pub music quiz first). EDIT: I'm prepared to bet you got a rich blend of fish vans on these, and other similar workings. As late as '65 there was fish traffic galore, but by then it would've been the blue-spots. Five years into BR tenure, by comparison - Billingsgate four-wheeler nirvana! Edited January 26, 2012 by 'CHARD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
62440 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 A little snippet from the last Passenger WTT. The ex Waverley 0400 News (50 mph max permissible speed) reached Galashiels at 0452 and then there is "dealt with in Down Line Platform arrives 0455". Presumably this would have meant a reversal from the Up line through a cross-over to reach the Down platform. I don't think there was ever a facing crossover at Galashiels, so maybe this manoeuvre would have been going on for a long time. The train left Galashiels for Hawick at 0505, reaching Hawick at 0548 after stops at Melrose and St Boswells. In the last few days of the line, motive power for the 0400 ex-Waverley was: 24 December 5313 (which returned on the 0815 ex-Hawick to Waverley) 26 December 1993 (which returned on the 0815 ex-Hawick to Waverley: 9010 arrived light engine from the north to work the 0658 ex-Hawick to Waverley) 27 December 281 (which returned on the 0815 ex-Hawick to Waverley) 28 December 5346 no record, but presumably returned on the 0815 ex-Hawick to Waverley 29 Sunday did not run 30 December no record (but 5069 worked the 0815 ex-Hawick to Waverley) 31 December no record (9018 arrived light engine from the north to work the 0658 ex-Hawick to Waverley and 359 worked the 0815 ex-Hawick to Waverley) 1 Jan did not run 2 Jan 5315 (278 arrived light engine from the north to work the 0658 ex-Hawick and 5315 worked the 0815 ex-Hawick to Waverley) 3 Jan no record (5068 worked the 0658 ex-Hawick to Waverley and 1778 worked the 0815 ex-Hawick to Waverley) 4 Jan no record (7591 worked the 0658 ex-Hawick to Waverley and 5071 worked the 0815 ex-Hawick to Waverley) 6 Jan did not run 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) I can't believe that two Deltics appeared at random (by accident) in the last fortnight, someone in Control in Edinburgh was surely putting superpower onto the 0658 as a last hurrah. It was certainly an extravagant and respectful way to mark the looming end, sending a Type 5 light engine over halfway to Carlisle. That train's rapidly acquiring legend status. Not only did we see the first ScR blue 37 in September (assuming the Cross caption's correct), but Deltics and 40s as well as the presumably 'booked' steam heat Type 2. 47s are obviously regulars by now, and the 0815 was turning out some fine traction of its own. Imagine having access to those on a Freedom ticket, it's mindblowing. Amazingly, here's a photo of the last ever loco to work the 0658. By Feb '70 she was in what looks like economy green FYE, passing St Peg's. http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=27886 and that's another contender now crying out to be recreated in model form. Hmmmm.... Edited January 27, 2012 by 'CHARD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Robertcwp has just posted a scanned image of the Scottish Region 1968-69 Passenger Train Marshalling circular on his BRCoachingstock Yahoo site. It contains details of almost all the weekday hauled stock trains over the Waverley Route (not, frustratingly, the 0350 ex Carlisle) during that last year - sadly, of course, they are annotated in hand "Service withdrawn w.e.f. 6/1/69". No train formations are shown for Sundays apart from the sleeper - were they DMUs by then? Stuart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Still loco jobs Stuart. No trains on a Sunday in 1968-9 bar the up 'Pullman' Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 The 0350 was Newspapers wasn't it? I wouldn't expect to see that in the document, as none of the other mails are included. I too had forgotten about the lack of a Sunday service. It wasn't always thus, albeit not shown in the public timetable, I understand there was staff transport on Sundays from Riccarton to the Holm or Teri for worship purposes, in the years that the Junction still boasted a sizeable population. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 A little snippet from the last Passenger WTT. The ex Waverley 0400 News (50 mph max permissible speed) reached Galashiels at 0452 and then there is "dealt with in Down Line Platform arrives 0455". Presumably this would have meant a reversal from the Up line through a cross-over to reach the Down platform. I don't think there was ever a facing crossover at Galashiels, so maybe this manoeuvre would have been going on for a long time. The train left Galashiels for Hawick at 0505, reaching Hawick at 0548 after stops at Melrose and St Boswells. In the last few days of the line, motive power for the 0400 ex-Waverley was: 24 December 5313 (which returned on the 0815 ex-Hawick to Waverley) 26 December 1993 (which returned on the 0815 ex-Hawick to Waverley: 9010 arrived light engine from the north to work the 0658 ex-Hawick to Waverley) 27 December 281 (which returned on the 0815 ex-Hawick to Waverley) 28 December 5346 no record, but presumably returned on the 0815 ex-Hawick to Waverley 29 Sunday did not run 30 December no record (but 5069 worked the 0815 ex-Hawick to Waverley) 31 December no record (9018 arrived light engine from the north to work the 0658 ex-Hawick to Waverley and 359 worked the 0815 ex-Hawick to Waverley) 1 Jan did not run 2 Jan 5315 (278 arrived light engine from the north to work the 0658 ex-Hawick and 5315 worked the 0815 ex-Hawick to Waverley) 3 Jan no record (5068 worked the 0658 ex-Hawick to Waverley and 1778 worked the 0815 ex-Hawick to Waverley) 4 Jan no record (7591 worked the 0658 ex-Hawick to Waverley and 5071 worked the 0815 ex-Hawick to Waverley) 6 Jan did not run Just revisiting this epic post of Bruce's. The evidence of two Deltics in the last fortnight is absolutely incredible. 9010 would have been in her unique GFYE(double arrows) and 9018 in GFYE too. 7591 is the GFYE 64B Rat that became part of the E-G push-pull pool, 5346 is a 60A Moray and Buchan machine being exploited by Control during an Embra layover. In fact that seems to have been very much the policy - big Brush 1778 is a Stratford 30A machine! You could claim some great scalps on the morning commute from Teri, it must have been incredible! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian b Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 While doing some research into Waverley Route train formations for a layout I came across this one in 'The District Controller's View'. 1953 timetable 22:15 Waverley to Carlisle, Class 'A' train Loco A4 [Class 8 engine needed due to load] Parcels vans for: Carlisle, Sheffield & Bristol. Fish Vans for: Leicester, Nottingham, Birmingham, Sheffield, Leeds, Bradford, Liverpool, Manchester, Wigan & Carlisle. The train also included two passenger coaches advertised to Hawick, but running forward to Carlisle as ECS. The A4 returned to Edinburgh on the 04:08 Carlisle Edinburgh parcels. Now the question, does anyone know what type of fish vans would be used e.g. LNER / LMS or being BR days a mixture? Jeremy Hi guys, Does anyone know what sort of parcels vans would be involved with these 2 trains? I'm guessing GUVs/ CCTs/ Mk1s are a given but would any TPOs have featured at any point? Thanks in advance! Ian B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) Hi guys, Does anyone know what sort of parcels vans would be involved with these 2 trains? I'm guessing GUVs/ CCTs/ Mk1s are a given but would any TPOs have featured at any point? Thanks in advance! Ian B No evidence has surfaced yet of scheduled TPO workings over the WR, however, both East- and West Coast diversions certainly brought them to the route. I think it fairly unlikely that the above diagram had any TPOs, although there are occasions where an empty TPO may have been worked back onto its regular circuit by an ECS move involving that train. Photos do exist of TPOs being moved about Scottish on routes that didn't have a regular TPO service, principally after holiday periods and Christmas in particular. Edited August 24, 2012 by 'CHARD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Almost there, Chard, but a regular, weekly, working! In the 1968/69 marshalling book, the 2245 SO Edinburgh-Carlisle conveyed 2 empty TPOs (POS) to Carlisle. Frustratingly, although the book contains the 0400 Hawick papers formation, the 0350 Carlisle - Edinburgh isn't mentioned. I presume this is because it was a Class 3 parcels rather than Class 1 despite carrying mails to Hawick. Stuart 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DugaldDalgetty Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Rather early perhaps, but there are 1945 Waverley Route coaching diagrams available at: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/BRCoachingStock/conversations/messages/8272 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hall Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 Came across this photo today, taken in 1960 (a long way south of the border, so don't get excited by the motive power). Fifth coach is presumably the usual Stanier 12 wheeler kitchen/restaurant, but the third coach also looks like a Stanier of some kind - probably a substitute for a failed Mk1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamysandy Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 8 minutes ago, Richard Hall said: Came across this photo today, taken in 1960 (a long way south of the border, so don't get excited by the motive power). Fifth coach is presumably the usual Stanier 12 wheeler kitchen/restaurant, but the third coach also looks like a Stanier of some kind - probably a substitute for a failed Mk1. The third coach appears to be a Thompson Corridor 2nd as modelled by Bachmann in 00. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hall Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 14 minutes ago, Steamysandy said: The third coach appears to be a Thompson Corridor 2nd as modelled by Bachmann in 00. I think you might be right, looking at photos of the Bachmann coaches. The Thompsons have a similar side profile to the Staniers, which is what I was going on. An ex LNER coach in a Midland formation is rather more interesting than an ex LMS one. But the photo is too low resoltion to make out the bogie type. Poor old Arrow. How was such a disgracefully filthy locomotive permitted to work a named train in 1960? It was allocated to Trafford Park at the time and I'm not sure what it was doing south of Nottingham and headed towards London. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamysandy Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 9 hours ago, Richard Hall said: I think you might be right, looking at photos of the Bachmann coaches. The Thompsons have a similar side profile to the Staniers, which is what I was going on. An ex LNER coach in a Midland formation is rather more interesting than an ex LMS one. But the photo is too low resoltion to make out the bogie type. Poor old Arrow. How was such a disgracefully filthy locomotive permitted to work a named train in 1960? It was allocated to Trafford Park at the time and I'm not sure what it was doing south of Nottingham and headed towards London. The give away is the position of the doors.The Thompson coaches were unique for their time in having the doors part way along the coach instead of at the end.The idea was suggested by Sir Charles Newton so that no seat was more than one compartment away from the door. I said it was a corridor second but I now think it's either a composite or a first. The condition of locos was beginning to slide and dirty locos were beginning to appear. Certain sheds made it the norm.Gateshead was known for never cleaning it's A4s and there's a photo of 60002 Sir Murrough Wilson coming off the King Edward Bridge on the up Flying Scotsman in a state of complete filth 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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