Tase Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Andrew was demonstrating what could be achieved if one doesn't like the 'well overcooked' weathering as you put it. I was merely commenting on the fact that with minimal effort the wagon could be made to look as you would like it to be. How is that leaving people with no voice? The fact of the matter is that no-one is forcing you to buy, that is your choice and privilege. There are many satisfied customers, myself included. Indeed I have bought 4 pristine and 11 weathered ones. Andrew's example showed how you could 'tone down' the weathering to show livery details or, if that is something you don't wish to do, you could always weather a pristine version to your exact specifications. Manufacturers weathered models are subjective obviously; some like them some don't ! Your opinion is as equal to anybody else's but on this particular issue you and I disagree, as I and others think that the weathering is spot on hence my heavy investment in said model and you don't like the weathering which presumably means you won't be parting with your hard earned! T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nat37670 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Since my last post, I have individualised two of my weathered JIAs. The Imerys and railway staff try to keep the Imerys, NACCO and data panels clean, often fighting a losing battle with the grime. I have seen wagons with the Imerys logos badly scratched etc. Andrew The scratch on the IMERYS lettering is common, this is where the roof rests when pulled down.... Scratched example: http://www.pbase.com/nat37670/image/133504589 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted March 20, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20, 2012 We are, indeed, all entitled to our opinions and they are precisely that: our own opinions. No-one is definitively right nor wrong. Many of us have been delighted with these wagons and I remind everyone again that from the outset they were advertised and illustrated as very heavily weathered. I have a full train awaiting collection and until I see them I am not in a position to make first-hand comments but neither do I have any intention of cancelling that order based upon comments made here nor for any other reason. A smaller number of us is able and happy to make further detailed changes to individualise each wagon in a rake. That to me is one of the joys of the hobby. I can start from the weathered example and make just a few slight adjustments here and there if I so wish. This being a premium-priced commission the wagons might not have so much appeal to the "train set" market but no doubt a good many will be happily run straight from the box by a goodly number of satisfied owners. As with any product (models, fruit, clothing, cars ..... ) not everyone will be happy with every aspect of them. It is one of the positive aspects of RMweb that we can sit down and discuss ways to make any improvements felt necessary and constructively air our frustrations and occasional disappointments but we can also at least respect the investment of time and money that has gone into producing these wagons in the first place. Would you rather have wagons which might not look quite as you had hoped for or no wagons at all? I fall into the former category and I look forward to enjoying testing my wagons very soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gulliver Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 one of the lads in our club received the weathered versions from kernow, they are well overcooked, dont know whos weathered them but David Blunkett could have done better, basically there black blotting out all the details with a mish mash of white sprayed on, not good, really glad their not mine or they would have been returned immediately. I find your comment rather negative to people who happen to disagree with you, some people will be happy with the way the model is weathered others will not, but to claim that by putting in extra work to clean off weathering that has been paid for, must surely say that if the model wasnt so heavily weathered in the first place this would have been a happy medium, allowing the modeller to add more if they wished. So what happens to the people who disagree with you, are they left with no voice and just have to lump it, that is the thing with freedom of speech, some people agree others dont, but let people be able to say that. Richard. I found your original post quite offensive as there was no need to bring someone with a disability into the post. Quite ironic really that you then complain about the tone of another post that happens to disagree with you! I don't really understand what your problem with these wagons is. You say at the start you are not intending to buy any, complain that you should not have to do extra work and then suggest the alternative is to finish them differently and do extra work! You do in fact have this option - buy the pristine versions, save some money, and then weather them yourself to your own personal requirements (I think it is called modelling!), then come and show us the results on here. You will end up with some very personal models to be proud of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterbournecm Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 The fact that you can purchase Ex works or HEAVILY weathered JIA's gives those wanting a something in the middle effect a chance to go to work at either end of the scale. I commend Dapol & Kernow for giving us a choice and long may it continue. I would welcome pre-weathered oil tanks, Iron Ore wagons, MGR's, parcel vans etc... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Scott Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I found your original post quite offensive as there was no need to bring someone with a disability into the post. Quite ironic really that you then complain about the tone of another post that happens to disagree with you! I don't really understand what your problem with these wagons is. You say at the start you are not intending to buy any, complain that you should not have to do extra work and then suggest the alternative is to finish them differently and do extra work! You do in fact have this option - buy the pristine versions, save some money, and then weather them yourself to your own personal requirements (I think it is called modelling!), then come and show us the results on here. You will end up with some very personal models to be proud of. I am not getting into a war of words on this subject. firstly, I have not stated anywhere that i wouldnt buy these wagons, I was saying if I had, I would be have not been happy with them and returned them, as to the opinon of myself and other people in our club we feel that the weathering was too much and in comparison with pictures both on here and from his own collection the incorrect shade, and in our case Mark the purchaser then has to clean back the weathering and rework, this is not really what you want to do, you are risking damage to the model. if a slightly less is more approach was applied this would allow the modeller to add more if they wished and not try to to coin a phrase mak a silk purse from a sows ear. (surely nothing too contentious there). weathering is an art form and something I enjoy doing on my own models and have been doing for 30 odd years, learning techniques from a lot of skilled people in this hobby and making them work for myself as well as passing on my knowledge what ive gleaned onto other members of our club and visitors to exhibitions, I would always prefer to weather an item myself but yes I have bought pre-weathered examples as I guess most of us have, I have examples of where its not gone as planned and had to redo to get a better representation and building items from kits and scratch so I totally understand the term modelling. as to your comment about complaining about a post, it was more about trying to explain that some people will agree and some will disagree, but you must have read that wrong, which can happen when you are reading, as it can be taken from your posting, that it is written with aggresion by the use of !!! as to the blunkett, maybe you dont get northern humour. Richard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 I am not getting into a war of words on this subject. To be fair Richard you started political tensions and then object when it's robustly addressed. To nowmake that statement and continue a bit of antagonism is somewhat bizarre. Please drop it now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vc-10 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I have to say that the pics of the weathered ones look great- they don't cover the whole fleet (duh...) but for those examples that are really heavily weathered they look good. I think I'd attack them a bit with a fibreglass pencil over the lettering, but not on all of them. If I were building up a full rake then I'd get some unweathered ones too, and weather them down but not as heavily as the stock ones (this is of course, entirely academic- I can't afford any new toys at the moment!). It seems to me that some people are getting up in arms about doing some modelling to get a superior finish! Mevaman is a case in point- his models look fantastic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Here are a few sample shots of a JIA treated very gently with a fibreglass pencil... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 That looks good. Taking back the weathering a little around the logos really brings the look closer to the prototype. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterbournecm Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Would T Cut applied gently have a similar effect? Does the fibre brush damage the surface at all? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Would T Cut applied gently have a similar effect? Does the fibre brush damage the surface at all? If applied very gently the fibreglass brush doesn't damage as such - I am literally very lightly stroking the surface of the wagon in a vertical direction. There will be some faint lines as a result, but if you keep your hand movements strictly to the vertical then any lines appear as naturally forming downward rain marks in the weathering. I also considered T-Cut, but in my experience this tends to leave a shine, although I guess a light overcoat of matt varnish might resolve this? I may experiment on the underside of a second wagon... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rs4 Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Bump Can anyone in the "know" tell me how close the JIAs are to the similar wagons used for Potash ? A quick glance suggests they are similar less the NACCO and Imerys branding, but I'm sure I'm missing something ! It can't be that simple....can it..... Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 I noticed yesterday that Rails were selling most of the Kernow JIA wagons on their e-bay site, including all the weathered versions. These don't seem to be items taken in part exchange as they are showing 'more than 10' available for most postings. I bought the 'H' weathered version, which I was missing, having made a cheeky less than £30 offer which was accepted. Have Rails done a deal to buy surplus stock? Rails were also selling some ex Kernow weathered silver bullet clay slurry wagons as well in oo gauge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfsboy Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 You can use very fine micromesh to remove unwanted print and/or weathering .I have used it to completely remove all the wolves and such from a Bachmann Hawthown Village 0n30 2-6-0 leaving the paint underneath pristine but also for renumbering .It can even polish up the paint to make it glossy for decal application or also dull the paint down to match the rest of the paintwork .No photos sadly but it works well and of course use gently and finely . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 I noticed yesterday that Rails were selling most of the Kernow JIA wagons on their e-bay site, including all the weathered versions. These don't seem to be items taken in part exchange as they are showing 'more than 10' available for most postings. I bought the 'H' weathered version, which I was missing, having made a cheeky less than £30 offer which was accepted. Have Rails done a deal to buy surplus stock? Rails were also selling some ex Kernow weathered silver bullet clay slurry wagons as well in oo gauge. These must be second-hand items as Rails haven't been supplied with these by Kernow. Kernow do have a few left in stock as new items priced from £29.99. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 You can use very fine micromesh to remove unwanted print and/or weathering./quote] Sorry for going OT can can you mention any specific brand or grade that you have used? Always interesting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Bump Can anyone in the "know" tell me how close the JIAs are to the similar wagons used for Potash ? A quick glance suggests they are similar less the NACCO and Imerys branding, but I'm sure I'm missing something ! It can't be that simple....can it..... Nick I hadn't seen this, sorry. There are two batches that look pretty close - one difference seems to be that the top only goes to one side on the Boulby wagons, but either way on the Imerys ones. These are very very similar and are even consecutively numbered with the Imerys: http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/J-/JIA-bogie-covered-hoppers/JIA-Potash-covered-hopper/ These older ones look to be fairly close as well, I think when I looked last time there may have been cosmetic differences around the bolsters. http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/J-/JGA-bogie-hoppers/JGA-Nacco-PotashRock-Salt/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Andy Y has confirmed that the stock Rails are selling on E-bay have not been supplied by Kernow. It looks like they had about 20 of each of the 8 different running numbers (4 different pristine and 4 different weathered). I've judged that number as 7 types are showing with more than 10 still available and the other has 10 available + 10 sold. They are being sold as 'new' which is ok in ebay terms if they have been unused. To have about 160 for sale is huge and you wonder where they have come from as they are significantly underpricing Kernow as the offer price is with p@p included and is negotiable Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted October 1, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 1, 2014 That is if Rails stock levels are to be believed. I have found previously that Rails stock levels do not always accord with what they have available to sell. A "real time" system such as Kernow MRC and others use will only show items in stock when they are in stock and will immediately show out of stock as soon as the last is sold. Having on more than one occasion found that Rails website (including their Ebay site) listed items I was seeking as "In stock" I duly ordered only to find they were not in fact in stock at all and in two cases had not yet even been delivered. Buyer beware. And buyer be aware that while there is nothing actually wrong with Rails offering Kernow exclusive items for sale provided they are pre-owned (even if unopened) and identified as such that such actions do potentially undermine the viability of the commissioning retailer when they still have the same items available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I can't see that this is an overstatement of product by Rails as suggested by the previous poster. Showing that they have stock of all 8 versions goes against that argument. The volume available as stated may not be exactly correct, but I don't see that they would advertise product they don't have and risk negative feedback. What led me to find these adverts from Rails, was I carried out a search on ebay to try and obtain a Kernow special edition silver bullet weathered wagon that I had previously missed and which they had long ago sold out of. I found it and similar to the JIAs, Rails were and are still showing multiple numbers of that silver bullet, in fact they are showing multiple stock of 5 different Kernow special edition versions - 850R, 850S, 850T, 850U and 850V, all but one being advertised as 'more than 10 available' and as 'in new unopened, unused condition' so you have to add those to the stock of Kernow JIAs. Is it possible that the manufacturer, Dapol, is selling off extra items they retained when carrying out the commission, having produced extra to cover for replacements for faulty or short shipments. It could certainly undermine Kernow, who as Andy Y advised have stock of all 8 JIAs and have just received 2 new weathered silver bullet limited editions from Dapol. I can confirm that stock is held as I bought one of the silver bullets and received it today in new condition Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
icphotos Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Just reserecting this thread, has anyone tried converting these to potash wagons. Considering buying a rake and wondering how easy it is to remove the imerys logo and so save the hassle of a complete respray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie the Cat Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Just reserecting this thread, has anyone tried converting these to potash wagons. Considering buying a rake and wondering how easy it is to remove the imerys logo and so save the hassle of a complete respray. I don't know about the converting, but I used acetone free nail polish remover to reduce the excessive weathering on my weathered versions and had to be very careful not to take the Imerys logos off as well. So, to answer your question, I think they would come off quite easily. Charlie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waveydavey Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Just reserecting this thread, has anyone tried converting these to potash wagons. Considering buying a rake and wondering how easy it is to remove the imerys logo and so save the hassle of a complete respray. Depends on how hardcore you want to be but from a casual look at the pictures earlier in this thread there are a couple of things you might want to look at if you are converting these into potash wagons. Firstly the access platform at one end of the wagon needs to be removed. The roof door mechanism needs attention too. On the potash wagons the door can only tip to one side. The bottom door safety lock mechanisms vary in how they are operated between batches. Some (the 192xx batch) are manually operated, the others are air operated but some of these have recently been modified to manual operation. Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Depends on how hardcore you want to be but from a casual look at the pictures earlier in this thread there are a couple of things you might want to look at if you are converting these into potash wagons. Firstly the access platform at one end of the wagon needs to be removed. The roof door mechanism needs attention too. On the potash wagons the door can only tip to one side. The bottom door safety lock mechanisms vary in how they are operated between batches. Some (the 192xx batch) are manually operated, the others are air operated but some of these have recently been modified to manual operation. Cheers David There was one of the China Clay ones tried in Potash about 15 years ago but it never led to anything! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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