Jump to content
 

Parcels stock in crimson


Recommended Posts

Hi,

I am in the process of building a parcels rake from Ratio/Parkside and Comet for the 50s and 60s but am struggling to get good photos showing the positioning of the numbers and other lettering on some stock. I have an LMS motor car van, an SR bogie parcels van and SR CCTs and PMVs. Most views I have come across are 3/4 views so the details are not visible. I know the number should be on the right hand end and usually on the botom or next to bottom planks.

However I am not sure where exactly the tare/wheelbase/inside length/weight set of letting goes. I know roughly that it will be at the right hand end up nearer the roof but does anyone know of any clear photos on the web that could help me out. I also suspect that the dimension/weight details lettering group did not come in until the later 50s or early 60s but can anyone confirm this, and many NCPS vehicles probably did not carry it. Pics seem to be hard to come by on the web.

One last point - were the handrails the same colour as the body or where they painted black. If the worst comes to the worst I will make a best guess and the cover everything in gime as most photos just show vehicles in aheavy layering of grey brown dirt but some do seem to have reatined the carmine body colour quite clearly but the number is extremely faded.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I sympathise as in the not too distant future I will need to letter a Siphon G only to cover the lettering with rail grot.

 

You might find it helpful to check out the Modelmaster range of waterslide transfers. I do not have the sheets for LMS and SR parcels vehicles to hand, if indeed they make them, but I have just checked the sheet for ex-GW parcels vans. There the vehicle numbers, load and tare weight are grouped.

 

Alternatively the proprietor of Cambridge Custom Transfers is a member of RMWeb and should be able to advise on the content and layout of his sheets.

 

Chris

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Chris,

Thanks for getting back to me. I ordered some Modelmaster transfers for the vehicles in question on Tuesday and they were delivered on Thursday morning - great service and very nice detail on the decals and no silvering.

 

Its not so much the technical details about the weight, length, etc but more about the actual positioning of these items on the vans. I have made a start on my first ex LMS motor car van and am simply going to number it in what I believe to have been the early style or marking, as shown on a preserved vehicle I found a photo of. That way I do not have to worry about the data panel. Unfortunatley I need several of these vehicles for my Kingmor - Kings Norton van train.

 

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gb/car/historic/37311-10.jpg

 

There are plenty of pictures of all the vehicles I would like to do on Paul Bartlett's site but they are all in rail blue era, whereas its the positioning of the numbers and other detals I am really after in the 50s and 60s.

 

Cheers,

Stephen

Link to post
Share on other sites

Stephen

 

I believe that preserved example is a mess. I have never seen any evidence for the body steelwork being anything other than the colour of the wood (it is unfitted and some fitted freight vehicles in the early BR period which had unpainted wood work with coloured steelwork).

 

You have quite a choice of positioning - a good place to start is the CCT part of Jenkinson, David & Essery, Bob (1991) An illustrated history of LMS coaches. I: General introduction and Non-Passenger Vehicles. Publ Haynes Publishing (Foulis-OPC) 166 pages ISBN 0 86093 450 0.

 

You may get some help from http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/BRCoachLetteringIssue.pdf

 

Regards

 

Paul Bartlett

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Paul,

Thank you very much for the download of the BR lettering book. I think I had downloaded it before, as I did all the other useful booklets from that site, but had completely forgotten about it. I had got my father to have a look at his copy of Vol.1 of the LMS coach but he said he only saw LMS liveried examples of the motor car van. I know from looking at it before that the same sized CCTs had a variety of lettering positions which is what I suspect happened with the motor car vans as well. Thats why I was hoping to get a photo so I could do a portrait wagon. You are right about the preserved examples paintwork, I have mine finished in plain carmine, but I was hoping the positioning of the lettering was accurate. It ties in with what I remember one of the CCT pics in the LMS coach depicting.

 

I was not sure when the data panel with the inside and outside length, weight, etc., was added and suspected that was only late on, but having seen the download it looks as though it may have been there from the start, unless I have missed where it has been added as a later amendment. I see the XP letting on the 4 wheel CCT page seems to have been introduced about 1965 which is unfortunate as I just added it to my 4 LNER wheel pidgeon van model based on an undated photo in Harris's book. I think that will have to be removed now. I'll just keep looking through old mags until I find one - doubtless one will appear just after I've given up and varnished it!

 

Many thnks,

Stephen

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the help so far. I have manged to get some photos of the SR 4 wheel vans in Vol 3 of Historic Carriage drawings and it gives me all the info I need for those wagons which is great. It confirms hat the XP branding was in use from the start of the BR liveries and that the data panel info was in by the mid 50s. Still stuck for a crimson liveried example of the SR Van B. I did see some in a great Youtube video showing colour shots around south London, but unfortunately the images were indistinct when it came to any positioning of lettering on any coach.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

"Southern Coaches" by Mike King only has a couple of pics of Vans B, one in malachite in 1949, the other - from the 1952-3 batch - pictured in 1963, livery not quoted. Presumably this vehicle would have emerged new from Lancing in crimson, but whether it would have been repainted into green by this time is not certain - except that it was one of those reserved for West of England news traffic & stencilled as such.

 

I'm just in the throes of fitting security bars to the windows on my parcels vehicles - Roxey do a selection to suit.

Link to post
Share on other sites

There do not seem to be many photos from the early BR period in Gould, David (1992) Southern Railway Passenger vans, Oakwood Press Series X50 (ISBN 085361 4288)

However, page 33 has a PMV in Sept 1956. Good photograph (it would be excellent if a lot larger!). It shows that a very extensive data panel is at the right hand end - as would be expected - but no sign of XP. No idea if it is red or green. It also has a nice bicycle stencil to show its specialist use - but I don't believe this would affect other lettering. Other early photographs in this book - such as Special cattle do have XP, which is what I would expect.

 

As I mentioned earlier liveries varied considerably, look at page 17 of S12S in August 1964, unlike anything I have seen elsewhere.

 

Regards

 

Paul Bartlett

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the extra info guys. I ordered a second hand copy of Gould off Amazon last night. The variety of livery styles in crimson seems to be quite bewildering so I suppose you could almost justify anything within reason. I'll try and get a copy of King's book somehow.

I had to do something for the club competition last night and ended up just putting the number on the Van B on the right hand end and no other transfers. I'll redo it later if I can get a photo showing it differently but at least I'll not have too much to remove. I also lettered up the ex LMS motor car van using a Modelmaster minipack but i suspect their CCT lettering is 4 inch as opposed to 3 inches so may remove it later before doing the final weathering. On the other hand are there any examples of the code being painted in 4 inch letters as opposed to 3 inch ones? The SR CCT minipacks appear to be the same yet an older sheet of a dozen of more SR PMVs, BYs, etc from the same firm appears to use the 3 inch style with 4 inch numbers. Why the change?

 

In the meantime I'm going to order some buffers from Nairnshire to complete my batch of SR 4 wheelers under construction. Their castings for the LMS CCTs are fantastic so I'm looking forward to these.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...