65179's workbench

[65179]

Edited April 3, 2022 by 65179

[65179]

The B16 is nearly there now apart from a bit of tidying up, fitting of coupling, crew and lamps (suitably chosen to hide the missing middle lamp bracket).

 

 

Simon

 

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by 65179

[Nig H]

51 minutes ago, 65179 said:

The B16 is nearly there now apart from a bit of tidying up, fitting of coupling, crew and lamps (suitably chosen to hide the missing middle lamp bracket).

 

 

 

 

Simon

 

 

Hi Simon,

 

Great work, I hope you are pleased with your results.

 

Regards,

 

Nig H

Edited May 20, 2020 by Nig H

[65179]

Thanks Nigel. 

 

It's nice to get one or two things finished. I was happy with the model in the brass, but there are too many steps in the painting process to screw things up for my liking! The Q6 weathering job to do next and then I'll be back from the dark side ;-)  Talking of which you appear to have released your Fowler 2-6-4T rather stealthily!

 

Simon

[Nig H]

On 20/05/2020 at 23:23, 65179 said:

Thanks Nigel. 

 

It's nice to get one or two things finished. I was happy with the model in the brass, but there are too many steps in the painting process to screw things up for my liking! The Q6 weathering job to do next and then I'll be back from the dark side ;-)  Talking of which you appear to have released your Fowler 2-6-4T rather stealthily!

 

Simon

Hi Simon,

 

The weathering step is another stage to mess things up. I've found it easy to get carried away and unintentionally get the Barry scrapyard look, rather than a more subtle result.

 

I had meant to announce the release of the Fowler tanks by now but I missed the Newsletter deadline so I'm two months behind schedule. I contacted those people who expressed in interest to arrange purchases or not. I got the lined locos back from Ian Rathbone this week and they look superb.

 

Nigel

[65179]

I look forward to seeing the finished result.  They certainly look good in the metal.

 

Simon

[65179]

There's been lots of fascinating stuff in the 2mm scale section recently.  Really interesting 3D printing work, inventive tools and the high quality etching we've come to expect. However, I've gone a little bit old skool with my latest model. Taking a spare built LNER van chassis (one of Mr Higgs's offerings), a sheet of 25 thou brass, a craft knife, a metal ruler, a square and a file and after several hours of work I have this:

 

 

A LNER Conflat S. It's by no means perfect, but it's been fun to see what I could do. A suitable container, chains etc will be added in due course.

 

Simon

Edited April 3, 2022 by 65179

[30368]

Brilliant work Simon with some great prototypes modelled, especially the B16/1.

 

I would have a go at 2mm but I know my eyes would not be up to it.

 

A long time ago I built many WW1 British and German warships in 1/1200th scale mostly those that fought at Jutland. Then I decided to have a go at 1/2400th scale, with fairly good results but all a bit daft really. That's not to say that 2mm scale is daft, quite the contrary!

 

Keep up the good work and thanks for all your encouragement!

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard b

[65179]

Well I've lots of projects on the go, not least the LMS vans shown on the 3D printing thread (sithlord75's stl files, my brother's printing)

 

so what better to do during a recent bout of covid than to start something new.

I was going to start something LMS next, but I've been pestering Mike Edge about one etch or another for a while and thought it about time I actually made sure I was up to producing something from the Judith Edge Kits etches.

Metal forming is probably the weakest part of my loco building, so the etch I selected, the GCR 8G (LNER B9) 4-6-0, is a bit of a test as there are lots of curves and (as these etches were originally produced for @Michael Edge's own needs) they require you to produce a boiler and firebox as well as smaller items like cylinder covers etc.  @30368's rather nice recent build of the 4mm etch, together with the photos of Mike's 61475 on that thread, was also a reason for choosing this now.

So what do you get? This is the loco and tender etches with a set of brief instructions with 2mm drawings and boiler and firebox templates:

As I said, this was to be a trial of my abilities, so I broke my usual rule and started with the loco.

The 4mm chassis is designed with metal spacers which can't be used without modification for split frame construction.
For speed I went for 7mm pcb spacers rather than use the Raithby/Hunt approach by narrowing the spacers provided and using thin pcb between spacers and frames:

I originally thought I'd try the new Association 30:1 gearbox to keep the drive simple and arranged the spacers accordingly. The eagle eyed will note that I was so keen to get on that I omitted to gap the pcb!

The next question was could I actually form the bends in the running plate and get something reasonably flat and square? Well  just about. The running plate is made up from 4 pieces, soldered individually to the valances. The fit of the etch is very good, but a bit of fettling is required at the curve transitions. I tacked everything together and then took it apart again as I hadn't got it square and the overlapping sandbox area wasn't sitting properly. After a second go I had something that wasn't perfect, but was much better:

So not too bad a start.

 

Simon

Edited April 3, 2022 by 65179

[Sithlord75]

Looks good Simon - D1814 and D1808/1812/1830 almost finished...

 

I've seen a few Judith Edge Kits around but obviously missed out on how to obtain same - although I'm not sure exactly what was offered.  How does one come by a list?

[65179]

7 hours ago, Sithlord75 said:

Looks good Simon - D1814 and D1808/1812/1830 almost finished...

 

I've seen a few Judith Edge Kits around but obviously missed out on how to obtain same - although I'm not sure exactly what was offered.  How does one come by a list?

 

That's great Kevin. I have an LMS fitted chassis looking lonely waiting for a D1814 body 

 

PM Michael Edge on here. He'll tell you what the theoretical 2mm list is and what's in stock in practice.

 

Simon

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by 65179

[Michael Edge]

Nice to see this being built, looks OK so far - I always worry a bit about these etches since I don't build in 2mm scale myself.

We have these 2mm etches at the moment:

NER/LNER/BR EF1 Bo+Bo

LNER/BR EB1 Bo+Bo

NER/LNER/BR EE1 2-Co-2

NER/LNER/BR ES1 Bo-Bo 

Yorkshire Engine Janus 0-6-0DE

YE DE2 0-4-0DE  

Hunslet 05

Hunslet 05 high cab - currently out of stock 

Hunslet 7051 

Barclay D2400 

Barclay class 06 

Barclay class 01

English Electric/Hawthorn Leslie 0-6-0DE

BR class 17 Clayton 

J63 – currently out of stock 

Ruston 165DS 

Ruston 88 DS

RH 48DS 

English Electric/Baguley – Harton 13-15  

Harton 0-4-0 No2/No10 

SR/Paxman BR11001 – currently out of stock 

LMS/BR Jackshaft 12023-32 

Hunslet 0-6-0DM MDHB No. 32 – currently out of stock

Hunslet 14” 0-6-0ST

Hunslet 15” 0-6-0ST

Hunslet 16” 0-6-0ST – currently out of stock 

Sentinel 0-6-0DH

CP Sentinel 0-6-0DH (1:160) 

RH PWM650

NBL 2700 

NBL D2720 – currently out of stock 

NBL D2745

NBL D2900

GC  D10 4-4-0

GC  B9 4-6-0

GC 4000/3250 gal. tender

LMS Kitson 0-4-0ST

Brush 200hp 0-4-0DE

[65179]

1 hour ago, Michael Edge said:

Nice to see this being built, looks OK so far - I always worry a bit about these etches since I don't build in 2mm scale myself.

We have these 2mm etches at the moment:

NER/LNER/BR EF1 Bo+Bo

LNER/BR EB1 Bo+Bo

NER/LNER/BR EE1 2-Co-2

NER/LNER/BR ES1 Bo-Bo 

Yorkshire Engine Janus 0-6-0DE

YE DE2 0-4-0DE  

Hunslet 05

Hunslet 05 high cab - currently out of stock 

Hunslet 7051 

Barclay D2400 

Barclay class 06 

Barclay class 01

English Electric/Hawthorn Leslie 0-6-0DE

BR class 17 Clayton 

J63 – currently out of stock 

Ruston 165DS 

Ruston 88 DS

RH 48DS 

English Electric/Baguley – Harton 13-15  

Harton 0-4-0 No2/No10 

SR/Paxman BR11001 – currently out of stock 

LMS/BR Jackshaft 12023-32 

Hunslet 0-6-0DM MDHB No. 32 – currently out of stock

Hunslet 14” 0-6-0ST

Hunslet 15” 0-6-0ST

Hunslet 16” 0-6-0ST – currently out of stock 

Sentinel 0-6-0DH

CP Sentinel 0-6-0DH (1:160) 

RH PWM650

NBL 2700 

NBL D2720 – currently out of stock 

NBL D2745

NBL D2900

GC  D10 4-4-0

GC  B9 4-6-0

GC 4000/3250 gal. tender

LMS Kitson 0-4-0ST

Brush 200hp 0-4-0DE

 

Is the N5 no longer on your list Mike?

 

Simon

[Michael Edge]

The N5 seems to have slipped off the list somehow - but we do still have a couple of them according to the stock list.

[Michael Edge]

The N5 seems to have slipped off the list somehow - but we do still have a couple of them according to the stock list.

[65179]

A bit of progress:

 

The splasher sides were fitted into the half etched slots provided and the splasher tops were then offered up beside them.  The sandboxes fold up into an L shape and then fit between the splashers. The joy of the big GC splashers is that there'll be no problem with the overwidth 2mm wheels!

B9s in their final condition were equipped with the same 4ft 9in diameter boiler carried by the Q4 'Tiny' 0-8-0s. Over clothing that equates to 10.5mm in 2mm scale. Although a boiler template is included, tube is a lot easier!  I couldn't find any brass tube from the usual sources, but thankfully 10.5mm is a size used in pen kits. The second photo shows the tube prior to cutting to length and the beginnings of the firebox. I'm doing 3 formers so that the front of the firebox can be double-layered to ensure enough material when the front curve is filed later.

 

 

Simon

Edited April 3, 2022 by 65179

[65179]

A shot of the marked up firebox outer with pilots holes drilled for washout plugs handrails (badly!), whistle and safety valves. You can also see the 3 layers of firebox former filed to shape and ready to be separated. The cabsides in the kit are half-etched and so aren't strong/rigid enough for our purposes. I've therefore roughly filed up a couple of layers of brass to add as strengthener. Final finishing of the shape will be done after they've been separated and soldered to their respective outer layers. However because the cabsides fit into a recess like the splashers, I will need to get the bottom of the cabside strengtheners right before attaching them to leave them just a bit shorter than the outers. Eventually I'll need to narrow the cab floor, floor support and splasher boxes by the width of the extra layers on each side.

 

Formed firebox plonked on the running plate:

 

Boiler cut to length and trial fitted on the firebox to check for square:

Probably overkill, but I fitted a disc with a hole through it (I had an oversize one to hand which was turned down by carefully fitting the disc in a cutting disc mandrel, and using a file to remove the excess while it span in the minidrill) and a nut soldered behind to the boiler and drilled a hole in the firebox front. This allows easy attachment and detachment of the boiler while I'm still playing around with things. The theory is it will make it easier to put the curve on the front of the Belpaire firebox, shape the bottom etc. In the background, the solid cab front has had room for the universal joint/motor shaft filed out.

 

Simon

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by 65179

[65179]

Two steps forward one step back on the B9. The cabsides (with strengtheners) have now been soldered in (beading was added using thin strip soldered in place and then filed back to a more appropriate width.  The cab front with its rather nice (and very fine!) spectacles has also been added. In fact I soldered this in first to try and get it square and placed centrally across the running plate, whilst still allowing the cabsides/splashers to fit in their half etched slots either side. The firebox has also now been filed to fit the middle splashers and a start made on fing it to clear the rear driving wheels.

However tacking in place the rear smokebox  support highlights a problem. The boiler isn't level:

 

I now need to work out whether the issue is the support or more likely my firebox.

 

Simon

Edited April 4, 2022 by 65179

[Michael Edge]

Measure which end matches my drawing, according to the CAD it should measure 14.36mm from the bottom of the footplate angle to the top of the boiler. This may be affected slightly by the relative change in material thickness between 4mm and 2mm scales but should be about right. I measure this with verniers but it can be checked directly from the drawing with a couple of squares.

[65179]

7 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

Measure which end matches my drawing, according to the CAD it should measure 14.36mm from the bottom of the footplate angle to the top of the boiler. This may be affected slightly by the relative change in material thickness between 4mm and 2mm scales but should be about right. I measure this with verniers but it can be checked directly from the drawing with a couple of squares.

 

Thanks Mike, the CAD value is useful as the error range measuring off the diagram starts to become significant due to the line width for this sort of thing. Certainly with my Lidl digital calipers!

 

It looks like my firebox is 0.2mm too low and the boiler wasn't sitting down on the smokebox support properly due to the etch cusp at the top of the concave curve. I have a cunning plan to resolve the firebox issue!

 

Simon

 

[Caley Jim]

Cunning plans are always good!

 

Jim

[Michael Edge]

I wouldn’t worry about .2mm, not in any scale!

[65179]

As an interlude between bits of progress on the model, I thought I'd put some notes down on my chosen loco. 

 

I'm going to be highly unoriginal and model the last B9. The last two B9s to be withdrawn were Heaton Mersey's 61469 and 61475.  These had at least one regular duty to the end, working the Liverpool portion of the night Marylebone-Manchester mail from Godley to Liverpool Central followed by a morning Brunswick-Halewood-Dewsnap freight. 

 

It's tempting to think that there was some particular interest in this turn because there are a number of photos of 1475/61475 on the Dewsnap freight, while photos of 61469 are like hen's teeth (I have one of it as 1469, but would be interested to see others if anyone has found any!).  However there aren't many photos of the locos that worked this diagram in the immediate later years after 61475 was withdrawn in May 1949: J10s until May 1950; then a 9F D11 (62663/5); and, from some point in 1951, one of Heaton Mersey's crabs; and so on. So I think we just have Manchester Locomotive Society members and friends R E Gee and J D Darby, sadly both now deceased, to thank for the photos in the short time that R E Gee was a young signalman on the Fallowfield line. 

 

61475 outlasted 61469 and certainly worked through Chorlton regularly so had to be modelled!  I've been collecting pictures of this loco for a while and now I've got part way into building it, it's time to check the details I'll need.

 

Firstly, the Yeadon Register with GC tender allocations has 1475 trailing a Robinson 4000 gallon tender built for a J11 0-6-0 in 1908, but actually first paired with a D9 4-4-0.  Thus this tender was built with solid beaded coalguards, and water scoop gear (which it retained to the end as shown by the scoop wheel in photos), and probably had a low rear coalplate.

 

A handy photo of 1475 cropped up on here a while back:

 

 

This shows 1475 on Brunswick shed. Details to note for my build are:

- I should have planned ahead as the lower of the two cab spectacles (above the ejector pipe) has been filled in. Hmm mine might just be painted over!

- firebox looks more rounded than mine.

- top lamp iron moved down to smokebox door.

- odd arrangement of handrail (standard for the B9) supported off the ejector pipe and spaced out further from the boiler on this side until the ejector pipe disappears into the smokebox, after which the handrail is as on the far side. How to do this to be decided.

- visible rivets on smokebox front as well as sides.

- bends and splits in the reversing rod apparent from this angle.

- this loco seems to have lost both its guard irons as did B7 61711 towards its end. Was this unusual?

 

Confirmed in this crop of a later shot:

which also shows that the "No." from the LNER bufferbeam number was retained (just visible to left of coupling hook) after 1475 was crudely painted out and 61475 painted in on the cabsides only in Gill Sans style.

- Shaded yellow LNER transfers retained untouched on the tender.

 

Simon

Edited April 3, 2022 by 65179

[65179]

56 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

I wouldn’t worry about .2mm, not in any scale!

 

You'd ve surprised Mike. Sometimes it's irrelevant even in 2mm, and sometimes it's just enough to upset a key relationship with something else so it nags or just looks wrong. In this case it's easier to add a bit to the firebox than file down the smokebox wrapper, front and support evenly; losing some of your lovely rivet detail partially behind the frame extensions in the process.

 

Can you spot the difference in boiler pitch between a D10 and a D11? That's 0.25mm in 2mm scale.

Edited February 12, 2022 by 65179

[65179]

A bit of work on the chassis.

 

As noted upthread I'd rushed a bit and so had forgotten to gap my pcb. In the meantime, I'd also taken note of @30368's 4mm build of 61475 and how he had swapped the initial gearbox used for a less obtrusive one part way through. My B16 posed no problem hiding the 38:1 worm on the middle axle,

but I reasoned the Association 30:1 gearbox I'd planned to use would be too obtrusive. So a change of plan:

 

I took a spare set of frames I had with an integral gearbox; trimmed off the unneeded bits; opened out the bearing holes for the driven axle to fit over the bearings on the inside of my frames; moved the holes for the worm inboard 0.25mm; and soldered it all up trying to keep things level by checking with lengths of axle steel through the bearings.

The missing gaps in the pcb were added by a combination of slotting file (one of the ones recommended by Tim Watson, I think during his Valour build) and scalpel.

 

Simon

Edited April 4, 2022 by 65179