16t minerals

[enginelane]

Top right in the sidings at the front of the wagons?

[The Johnster]

3 hours ago, Porcy Mane said:

Find the 40! (pjs,0933) by Geoff Dowling, on Flickr

SYP extreme left half way up just visible behind OHLE gantry to left of chimney pot?

[The Johnster]

On 24/04/2019 at 09:13, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Mike

 

It was in reply to a question on headcodes.

 

From 1962 to 1969 these were the codes.

First figure was the train  type

1, Express passenger, breakdown train or light engine going to assist a disabled train, snow plough clearing the line.

2, Ordinary passenger, branch passenger or mixed train. Breakdown train not on duty.

3, Parcels, fish, milk fruit, livestock or other perishable train composed entirely of vehicles conforming to coaching requirements. Empty coaching stock.

4, Express freight, livestock, perishable or ballast train fitted through out with automatic brake operative on 90% of the vehicles. Maximum speed on was 55 mph (1964 LMR Freight Loads book and 1967 ER book)

5, Express freight, livestock, perishable or ballast train with not less than 50% of fitted vehicles coupled to the locomotive. Maximum speed on was 50 mph (1964 LMR Freight Loads book and 1967 ER book)

6, Express freight, livestock, perishable or ballast train with not less than 20% of fitted vehicles coupled to the locomotive. Maximum speed on was 45 mph (1964 LMR Freight Loads book and 1967 ER book)

7, Express freight, livestock, perishable or ballast train not fitted with continuous brake. Maximum speed on was 40 mph (1964 LMR Freight Loads book and 1967 ER book)

8, Through freight, not fitted with continuous brake. Maximum speed on was 35 mph (1964 LMR Freight Loads book) or 25 mph (1967 ER book)

9, Freight train stopping in section (Trip freight, pick up freight) Maximum speed on was 35 mph (1964 LMR Freight Loads book) 25 mph  (1967 ER book)

0, Light engine or engines with or without brake van.

 

The ER had class 7* trains that had a "fitted head" and could run at 35mph. Depending on the number of basic wagon units the train was composed of there would be a proportion of the train which was made up of fitted wagons coupled to the loco.

 

From 1969 to 1976, when headcodes were no longer displayed and as modellers we do not need to worry past this point in time.

 

First figure was the train  type

1, Express passenger, breakdown train or light engine going to assist a disabled train, snow plough clearing the line.

2, Ordinary passenger, branch passenger or mixed train. Breakdown train not on duty.

3, Parcels trains permitted to run up to 90 mph.

4, Parcels trains, freightliner trains and other fitted freight permitted to run up to 75 mph

5, Empty coaching stock, including empty newspaper and parcels trains.

6, Fully fitted freight trains, after 1968 no longer required a brake van unless hauled by a class 20.

7, Partially fitted freight train...off the top of my head I cannot recall what proportion.

8, Freight train with a fitted head, like the ER pre 1969 class 7*

9, Unfitted freight

0, Light engine or engines with or without brake van.

I can enlarge on the 1969-76 situation, though my memory also fails me as to the percentage of braked vehicles required for class 7 or 8 classification.  We worked from the load books, which gave the correct loads for each class of train for each class of locomotive over a section; you had to know where the 'ruling gradient' for the route your train was taking was, as you otherwise might work a train within limits for your part of the job but hand it over overloaded or underbraked to your relief...

 

.Class 1 included Royal Trains and pilot locos for Royal Trains, though I cannot recall these still being used in those days.

 

.Class 4 included car carrier trains, i.e. bogie carflats and Cartic 4 sets.  The twain could not be mixed because Cartics were air braked and flats vacuum.  Carflats were IIRC numbered as NPCCS, but don't quote me.  All were XP rated to run with Motorail services, which also used GUVs, but AFAIK GUVs were not used as car carriers in the new car distribution trade.  Class 4 parcels trains were permitted and timed to run at 90mph if consisting of 90mph bogie stock (BGs, GUVs, etc). The guard rode in the rear cab of the loco (see comment about class 20s) or leading loco if double headed even if there was accommodation in a BG for him on the train.

 

.Class 5 ecs also had the guard in the rear cab of the loco.

 

.Class 6 included traffic timed to run at 60mph, notably oil and steel traffic, but could also be fully fitted 10' wheelbase wagons restricted after 1969 to 45mph.  As a very general rule, air braked meant 60mph timings, vacuum 45mph.  Exceptions were the 55mph air braked MGR and 50mph 21ton hopper coal and coke trains; more about these in class 8!  

 

.Class 7 was a part fitted freight train with a guard's brake van as the rear vehicle, generally timed to run at 45mph (at which speed the 9' wheelbase 16ton minerals which the unfitted portion often consisted of could be a bit lively!).

 

.Class 8 was also a part fitted train with a guard's brake van as the rear vehicle, but less 'brake force', and hence a more restricted load, than class 7, and was generally timed to run at 35mph, even though the wagons were permitted 45.  Coke and 21ton coal hopper wagons permitted to run at 50mph often formed the loads of class 8 trains, which could run to that speed but they were timed to run at 35mph with reference to signal sighting and stopping distances.  Where a clear road could be seen ahead for a good way 

  

.Class 9 is an unfitted train with only the brakes on the loco and guard to control it.  It is limited to 25mph speed and can have the instanter couplings in the 'long' position; they have to be in the short position on other classes of freight train.  

 

To summarise, a guard's van is required on class 7, 8, and 9 goods or mineral trains unless there is an instruction in the relevant Sectional Appendix allowing operation without one.  It is also required on some class 6 trains; see note about Class 20 locos even in pairs, and where propelling or specific shunting requirements specify it.  On other class 6, and all class 5, 4, or 3 trains, the guard rides in the rear cab of the loco.  On Class 2 and 1 passenger carrying trains, he rides in his designated accommodation in the train of course,

 

'Fitted heads', the fitted portion of part fitted class 7 or 8 trains, were usually vacuum but could be air.  

The two systems could not be used simultaneously on the same train, because the vacuum portion does not carry through air pipes or the air portion vice versa.  So a fitted head had to be all one or the other; an air braked vehicle in a class 7 or 8 with a vacuum head is part of the unfitted portion of the train unless it has a through vacuum pipe; this often featured on ferry rated vehicles.

 

Some general principles for modelling purposes; a brake van on a class 7,8, or 9 train carries 3 tail lamps, including 2 side lamps showing a white light forward and a red to the real.  These side lamps carry removable shades so that they can show white lights to the rear as well, and display this if they are running along a goods or relief line adjacent to a main line or are in a loop or refuge siding.  Other trains carry single tail lamps, usually oil but battery types were being trialled by the mid 70s,  For this period, dmus carried oil tail lamps, NOT the twin red electric lamps incorrectly displayed by the majority of such trains on exhibition layouts whose operators should know better.  On the Southern, emus and demus carried no tail light at all and displayed a red backlit blind in the rear cab route indicator panel.

 

Light engines carried electric marker tail lamps, but if they were being hauled dead carried oil tail lamps, and were therefore provided with lamp brackets.  As any freight vehicle fitted with an automatic brake could be used as the tail vehicle of a fully fitted train, they also had brackets, but unfitted vehicles, which included 'piped through', didn't so that they couldn't be used in this way.

 

Apropos panels, the class of train was the first digit in the 4-character code.  The second was a letter, excluding I or U which were considered too easily confused with numbers.  Each region had it's own system, but interregional trains carried E if the destination was the ER, M for LMR, N for NER, S for Scottish, and O for the Southern.  Within regions, A usually meant a destination in the region's London division, and the others were allocated to their regions' own needs.  Obviously, a train originating in the Scottish or NE regions could not display an A for a London bound train.  X denoted an out of gauge load and Z a special working not in the WTT. 

 

So, 7M49 was the headcode for the 03.15 Cardiff (Long Dyke)-Carlisle, a class 7 part fitted freight destined for the LMR and the 49th such class 7 of the day to be timetabled on to the region, which it got to at about 6 in the morning.  It was 'described' as 7M49 from signal box to signal box and identified as such for it's entire journey; the system is still in use but AFAIK there are no class 7s any more.

 

With the introduction of TOPS and the closure of many manual signalboxes, trains were described by teleprinter and, later, computer terminal and the need for the headcodes to be displayed on the locos no longer existed.

 

Locos such as Peaks, Class 20s, 40s etc which did not have the 4 character headcode boxes were described from box to box in the same way, but carried the equivalent steam disc or headlamp code.  

 

 

 

[Fat Controller]

I believe that Class 7 (now classed as 35mph max) is used for the Ford 'Blue Trains' if they use the 'Classic' route to the Channel Tunnel, rather than HS1.

[Southernman46]

8 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

I believe that Class 7 (now classed as 35mph max) is used for the Ford 'Blue Trains' if they use the 'Classic' route to the Channel Tunnel, rather than HS1.

Indeed - converted from solid vans ISTR and only slightly less skittish at speed than a Cemflo …………………………….

Edited July 22, 2019 by Southernman46

[Fat Controller]

46 minutes ago, Southernman46 said:

Indeed - converted from solid vans ISTR and only slightly less skittish at speed than a Cemflo …………………………….

Funny thing is they run as ME120 (Class 4, 75 mph) all the way from Spain; it's only when they encounter 'classic' UK infrastructure that the 35 mph restriction applies

[tomparryharry]

On 22/07/2019 at 07:40, Fat Controller said:

Funny thing is they run as ME120 (Class 4, 75 mph) all the way from Spain; it's only when they encounter 'classic' UK infrastructure that the 35 mph restriction applies

 

 

Edited July 26, 2019 by tomparryharry
context clean -up

[tomparryharry]

Just now, tomparryharry said:

 

It's the change from the Berne loading gauge to our smaller loading gauge that brings in the speed restriction. It's all to do with the operating envelope.

 

[tomparryharry]

2 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

 

 

 

[Fat Controller]

Just now, tomparryharry said:

 

It's the change to the Berne loading gauge that brings in the speed restriction. 

I was told it was down to the wheel profile, and the wheel/rail interface. When the Rover trains ran to Lonato, the Cartic-4s on them could run at 120 kph in the UK, but only 100 kph elsewhere, whilst the STVA double-deckers were the converse.

[Osgood]

Bump!

https://www.derbysulzers.com/7511collision.jpg

[The Bigbee Line]

On ‎26‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 10:12, Fat Controller said:

I was told it was down to the wheel profile, and the wheel/rail interface. When the Rover trains ran to Lonato, the Cartic-4s on them could run at 120 kph in the UK, but only 100 kph elsewhere, whilst the STVA double-deckers were the converse.

The wheelbase is approx. half a standard 60' length and 'stuff' still has to run over such track with bad joints, this makes them very susceptible to Cyclic Top, they are not a big fan of twist either.....

[andytrains]

[Brinkly]

Hello!

 

I thought I would share my efforts so far. 

 

I haven't weathered anything before, so this was a real learning curve. I had a chat with an old school friend, a miltary modeller himself, who suggested using the Ammo by Mig range of paints and weathering products. I have to say, until Sunday, I hadn't come across them before. I use Vallejo paints for figure painting, and these are quite similar. 

 

I'm happy to produce a step-by-step guide if anyone is interested, but here are my results so far:

 

 

 

 

I hope they don't like the side down!

 

I haven't finished the process yet, but I'm very pleased with what I have achieved so far.

 

Best wishes,

 

Nick.

 

 

[Titan]

I would be happy to achieve that right now let alone at my first attempt!  Looks great to me!

[steaming_chris]

1 hour ago, Brinkly said:

----8<--  a few lines deleted  -->8-----

 

I'm happy to produce a step-by-step guide if anyone is interested, but here are my results so far:

 

I hope they don't like the side down!

I haven't finished the process yet, but I'm very pleased with what I have achieved so far.

Best wishes,

Nick.

 

 

 

Hi Nick,

these look very good.

If you have time, I'd be interested in you step-by-step guide

 

Regards

[Brinkly]

Just now, steaming_chris said:

 

Hi Nick,

these look very good.

If you have time, I'd be interested in you step-by-step guide

 

Regards

 

Thank you Chris. 

 

I will photograph the pair I'm working on tomorrow.

 

Kind regards,

 

Nick.

[Brinkly]

1 hour ago, Titan said:

I would be happy to achieve that right now let alone at my first attempt!  Looks great to me!

 

Thank you Titain, your kind words mean a lot! 

 

Straight up, I haven't done anything like this before. Until yesterday, my time on using an airbrush could be measured in minutes! Around 210! 

 

I'm really pleased with the results so far. 

 

Kind regards,

 

Nick.

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Nowt wrong wi them, keep up the good work, but remember wagons is a slippery slope!

 

Mike.

[jrg1]

Weathering is very subjective in my opinion, but I do like the look of what you have done-can you provide a description, please?

[sb67]

On 19/08/2019 at 16:56, Brinkly said:

Hello!

 

I thought I would share my efforts so far. 

 

I haven't weathered anything before, so this was a real learning curve. I had a chat with an old school friend, a miltary modeller himself, who suggested using the Ammo by Mig range of paints and weathering products. I have to say, until Sunday, I hadn't come across them before. I use Vallejo paints for figure painting, and these are quite similar. 

 

I'm happy to produce a step-by-step guide if anyone is interested, but here are my results so far:

 

 

 

 

I hope they don't like the side down!

 

I haven't finished the process yet, but I'm very pleased with what I have achieved so far.

 

Best wishes,

 

Nick.

 

 

 

They look very nice Nick, it would be good to see how you did them. 

Steve

[Metr0Land]

JR5408 Pontardulais station 130664 by Nigel Wassell, on Flickr

CRS0030 by Nigel Wassell, on Flickr

Tondu 1 Sep 1962 by Nigel Wassell, on Flickr

[The Johnster]

Porthcawl auto on the left at Tondu, A38, 64xx, and A43 all-third with no driving compartments but through auto gear, then A44 compartment 'cyclops' trailers, and probably a Bridgend-Treherbert via Cwmmer Afan and the Blaenrhondda Tunnel to the right.  

[Metr0Land]

9678 Colbren Junction 21 Nov 1964 by Nigel Wassell, on Flickr

 

637 37251 Gorseinon coal yard 10 Jun 1983 by Nigel Wassell, on Flickr

 

B4 Corrall Queen at Dibles Wharf, Southampton, 21 Feb1970 by Ian Nolan, on Flickr

[Boleyn Road]

Thought I’d share a couple of wagons I made a few months back. One’s a Cambrian kit and the other is a Parkside one. I did the chipping/rust using the ak interactive ‘worn effects’. Hope you like them!