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3 hours ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

 

From about 4 mins 15 seconds in and then there's the rest of his videos to look through.

 

.Good Find Mr Maine...1968 was a damn fine year for the 16 tonners

 

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On 16/07/2020 at 20:57, Porcy Mane said:

50114981248_2f8f2d13b3_b.jpgEE Type 3 Tool Vans Millfield yard Sunderland. c 1970 by locoman1966, on Flickr

 

From about 4 mins 15 seconds in and then there's the rest of his videos to look through.

 

 

 

Not entirely convinced of the date on the Sunderland shot. It might be the quality of the picture but I can't see any yellow on the nose of the EE Type 3, and I'd have thought it would have acquired some by 1970.

 

22 hours ago, Metr0Land said:

 

40178 Connahs Quay 070979

Connahs Quay

 

 

 

Is it just me, or should this be in the When the Real Thing Looks Like a Model thread? I particularly like the photographic backscene and the clever use of a candle flame to distort a Merit oil drum ;).

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6 hours ago, PatB said:

Not entirely convinced of the date on the Sunderland shot.

 

Knowing Neville Whaller and Ian Carrs accurate recording and captioning of phots I'd say the date is correct. (There's always provisos).

It was the late sixties early seventies that I started to take notice of the railway scene and there were still a few Type threes about with SYP. The big give away in the image is no Millfield signal box.  It was still standing in World cup year.

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6 hours ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

Knowing Neville Whaller and Ian Carrs accurate recording and captioning of phots I'd say the date is correct. (There's always provisos).

It was the late sixties early seventies that I started to take notice of the railway scene and there were still a few Type threes about with SYP. The big give away in the image is no Millfield signal box.  It was still standing in World cup year.

As its more than likely a local type3, it will be in the usual Gateshead condition....

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10 hours ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

Knowing Neville Whaller and Ian Carrs accurate recording and captioning of phots I'd say the date is correct. (There's always provisos).

It was the late sixties early seventies that I started to take notice of the railway scene and there were still a few Type threes about with SYP. The big give away in the image is no Millfield signal box.  It was still standing in World cup year.

I certainly wouldn't wish to cast aspersions on the diligence of those writing the caption. I'm just surprised that a loco would have gone so late unyellowed. From what can be seen of the loco nose, I would have expected to see part of even a small yellow panel, and I can't. Maybe such panels were narrower than my mental picture suggests. 

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34 minutes ago, PatB said:

From what can be seen of the loco nose, I would have expected to see part of even a small yellow panel, and I can't.

 

Maybe more of a case of good old honest North East muck.

 

+

 

 

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Brakedown trains were rarely vacuum fitted, and the big cranes were heavy, very.  A 75ton crane does not weigh 75tons, it can lift 75tons.  But the probability is that the call came in, and the nearest loco available was this one, and it happened to have the brake tender coupled.  Even minor breakdowns are treated as emergencies, as facilities need to be cleared for traffic and damaged wagons and spills cleaned up and taken out of the way.  Thus, a spare crew is found (big sheds had these available 24/7 booking on every hour on the hour in those days), the nearest available running loco is quickly examined, the vans or crane coupled, and off they go as soon as the men, mostly off duty per. way chaps on breakdown call retainer, turn up.  Nobody would take time to uncouple the brake tender, as this entails putting it out of the way somewhere and wastes time.

 

A breakdown train on the way to an incident, in order to clear the line as the rule book terminology has it, is Class 1 and appropriate lamps, discs, or headcodes are displayed, and it is almost contained within the description that the train is running late.  The priority is to get it to the incident.

 

If it is a major incident, and fortunately this is very rare, then a whole new operation comes into play.  Relief crews must be organised, and food and water supplied, along possibly with specialist machinery but most eventualities can be catered for with the equipment on the train.  If the same vans are on site for some time, and the sleeping facilities in the mess van are used, then bedding and the mens' overalls will need to be sent to a laundry and fresh clean ones supplied.  These are a tough bunch of blokes, but the work at a major incident where there may be trapped passengers or traincrew is demanding, heavy, physically exhausting, and potentially very upsetting.  They are, not to put to fine a point on it, heroes.  

 

Very bad accidents are fortunately rare, and provision must me made for enabling uninjured passengers to detrain safely and continue their journeys, which may require special trains.  Diversionary routes are brought into use, or replacement buses organised, and where diversionary routes are involved it is Control's job to ensure that crews have route knowledge or pilots are provided for them.  Once all casualties have been accounted for, the priority was to clear the line and ensure it is fit for traffic as rapidly as possible, but nowadays these sort of incidents are crime scenes and the wreckage is left in place for police and DfT inspections to take place before clearance work is allowed to start.

 

It is rough work and a first aid station is usually set up, and in the old days the WRVS would turn up with on site refreshments, much appreciated I'm sure.  Backing all this up, reserve trains and crews may have to be organised to cover areas denuded of cover in case there's another incident; minor incidents are not infrequent.  At Canton we had a big crane with a mess and tool coach, and 'the vans', which were out sometimes 2 or 3 times in a week, mostly to minor derailments 'over the dock', Cardiff docks.  There was a contract with British Steel for these trains to cover the 2 steelworks, Castle and Tremorfa, and a visit to these was always seized upon as both places had very good free canteens open for hot food 24/7.  This was during the 70s.

 

Train crew, locomen and guards, have little to contribute to the process once the train is delivered to the site, though minor shunts and stock movements do take place so they must be on hand.  Relief for them is arranged at the depot by the traincrew manager, separately from the breakdown men, and they can forage for food when their own is finished, not least from the mess van.  Fortunately, I was never involved in any serious incident of this sort that resulted in injury or loss of life, and for that I am grateful!

Edited by The Johnster
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On 19/07/2020 at 17:22, The Johnster said:

Brakedown trains were rarely vacuum fitted, and the big cranes were heavy, very.  A 75ton crane does not weigh 75tons, it can lift 75tons.  But the probability is that the call came in, and the nearest loco available was this one, and it happened to have the brake tender coupled.  Even minor breakdowns are treated as emergencies, as facilities need to be cleared for traffic and damaged wagons and spills cleaned up and taken out of the way.  Thus, a spare crew is found (big sheds had these available 24/7 booking on every hour on the hour in those days), the nearest available running loco is quickly examined, the vans or crane coupled, and off they go as soon as the men, mostly off duty per. way chaps on breakdown call retainer, turn up.  

 

The 'vans' were vacuum fitted and the crane piped, thus the crane should be marshalled next to the loco when in normal running.

 

You suggest that the BDT was staffed by P-way man. At Derby, the breakdown crane crew were taken from the loco shed fitting staff. P-way staff were also on site of course but not directly associated with the crane as some of their repair work could be some distance away from the derailed train.

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Some breakdown crew at Canton were shed fitters, but the bulk were PW.  The system was that the men were ‘on call’ while off duty, and lived near the shed so could attend quickly.  Canton never had a really serious incident to deal with, but had this situation occurred it would, I imagine, have been a case of ‘all hands to the pumps’ irrespective of on call or on duty.  PW men were used to handling jacks, and supporting them with timbers; they tended to be big, capable lads used to working outdoors and who could turn their hands to anything.    
 

‘The vans’ were converted from passenger coaches, mk1 BSKs in my day, and were fully vacuum braked.  The crane itself was piped, as you say, and had another pair of mk1 BSKs mess and tool to support it, but ran with goods brake van at the rear.  60mph was permitted, and the brake van was stabled with the train.  At Canton, this was on the old coaling road beneath the coaling stage, handy for coal and water for the (steam) crane, and brakevan coal. This coal, along with the brake van lamps, oil, and other equipment, was sacred and never ‘borrowed’ for other purposes. 

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6 hours ago, Poor Old Bruce said:

 

The 'vans' were vacuum fitted and the crane piped, thus the crane should be marshalled next to the loco when in normal running.

 

You suggest that the BDT was staffed by P-way man. At Derby, the breakdown crane crew were taken from the loco shed fitting staff. P-way staff were also on site of course but not directly associated with the crane as some of their repair work could be some distance away from the derailed train.

 

West Auckland's breakdown crew were the same, all fitting staff with a boilersmith brought along in case his talents were needed. They did it on a rota basis so that everyone got the chance of some overtime, which worked well until a new boilersmth chargehand turned up and blagged the lot...so the boilersmiths voted with their feet and went off to work in Shildon shops! West Auckland had an old Gresley coach in which was loaded everything they might need (including provisions if it was going to be a long job)...they also needed a guard, and when one wasn't available they would load what they needed onto the footplate of a loco, a practice that ended after an accident unloading one day. According to the aforementioned chargehand boilersmith, you could guarantee most jobs would be finished in time for last orders.

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