16t minerals

[Porcy Mane]

23 ton Open Mineral Wagon (Scrap traffic). by Adrian Nicholls, on Flickr

[Metr0Land]

NMR015-BTL.281-1960, Class 31-1, No.31252, (Shed Code TI, Tinsley), at Meadowgate Lane, Beighton-09-03-1977 by Niall Jordan, on Flickr

 

NCB-AMCD026a-SW-1958, Class 03, No.D2008, (later B.R. No.03008), (No.31A, Cambridge) (L), and RH.384146-1956, ‘No.45’, (‘AM218’, and ‘3219-002’) (R), at Askern Main Colliery, Askern-20-03-1969-A by Niall Jordan, on Flickr

 

CAI464-GO.1061-1953, Class EM1, (Class 76), No.26054, ‘Pluto’, approaches Up End of Platform No.3, Sheffield Victoria Station-06-10-1966-A by Niall Jordan, on Flickr

 

CAI528-K.477Z.5187-1918, Class 01, No.63646, (Shed No.41H, Staveley G.C.), near Meadowgate Lane, Beighton, view looking South, (L.M. &.S.R.), passing under G.C.R. Line-18-04-1964 by Niall Jordan, on Flickr

[Porcy Mane]

 

[Metr0Land]

Gloucester

50017. by David Hopkins, on Flickr

 

R0910.  Castell Conwy.  12th April, 1963. by Ron Fisher, on Flickr

 

 ORG013-YE.2528-1954, Class DE4, ‘No.21’, at Orgreave Coking Plant, on River Rother Bridge and from Treeton Branch-19-04-1972-A by Niall Jordan, on Flickr

 

CAI529-NBLG.L943.25012-1943, Class WD-8, No.90136, (Shed No.41D, Canklow), passing under Meadowgate Lane Bridge, Beighton, view looking North, (L.M. &.S.R.)-18-04-1964 by Niall Jordan, on Flickr

[Binky]

An interesting mix of wagons in that Conwy photo, especially what looks like a diagram 1/100 on the end?

[Metr0Land]

Class 20,s 20169 +20140 leave Toton Yard at Long Eaton with a coal train.26/04/1980. by kevin connolly, on Flickr

 

Ystrad Mynach Low sidings by Tom Derrington, on Flickr

 

CAI670-HC.1890-1960, (formerly ‘H.C. No.2’), at Dodworth Colliery, Dodworth, near Barnsley-15-05-1973 by Niall Jordan, on Flickr

 

Sep75. High Wycombe. Brush Class 31 31118 (Ex D5536). [Slide_A039] by Mr_Western, on Flickr

[Metr0Land]

Newcastle Emlyn. Loco in goods yard. 31.12.70 by Roger Joanes, on Flickr

 

31317 At Sinfin. 22/07/1986. by Brian Dean, on Flickr

 

08Apr76. Taplow. Brush Class 47 47254 (Ex D1931). [Slide_C037] by Mr_Western, on Flickr

 

D5702 near Silverdale. April 1968 by Alan Wheeler Collection, on Flickr

[Metr0Land]

(020aS) NCB No27 Derwenthaugh 10-3-68 (Trevor Ermel) by Trevor Ermel, on Flickr

 

(085d) Class Q6 No 63429  Pelaw 12-6-67  (Trevor Ermel) by Trevor Ermel, on Flickr

 

(212bS) D244+75026 banking on Shap 28-10-67 (Trevor Ermel) by Trevor Ermel, on Flickr

 

(108aS) 65892 Pelaw 30-5-67  (Trevor Ermel) by Trevor Ermel, on Flickr

[Mol_PMB]

I might be in the wrong thread with this one, but I’m sure the 16t mineral experts will put me right.

What is the first wagon in this train of iron ore tipplers?

Link to Niall Jordan’s photo on Flickr:

It looks like a 16t, except that it has a tiebar between the axleboxes. It’s pale coloured so probably unfitted. The photo date is 1964 which I think pre-dates most of the rebuild programmes. 

Cheers,

Mol

[Sitham Yard]

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

I might be in the wrong thread with this one, but I’m sure the 16t mineral experts will put me right.

What is the first wagon in this train of iron ore tipplers?

Link to Niall Jordan’s photo on Flickr:

It looks like a 16t, except that it has a tiebar between the axleboxes. It’s pale coloured so probably unfitted. The photo date is 1964 which I think pre-dates most of the rebuild programmes. 

Cheers,

Mol

Not sure about a tiebar. I think what you are seeing is the far rail of the track that the train is on.

Andrew

[Mark Saunders]

6 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

I might be in the wrong thread with this one, but I’m sure the 16t mineral experts will put me right.

What is the first wagon in this train of iron ore tipplers?

Link to Niall Jordan’s photo on Flickr:

It looks like a 16t, except that it has a tiebar between the axleboxes. It’s pale coloured so probably unfitted. The photo date is 1964 which I think pre-dates most of the rebuild programmes. 

Cheers,

Mol

It looks like it is probably one of the LMS 27ton ones built for iron ore with the same body as a 16 ton mineral it appears to have the reversing link on the handbrake lever and also roller bearings.

[Mol_PMB]

2 hours ago, Mark Saunders said:

It looks like it is probably one of the LMS 27ton ones built for iron ore with the same body as a 16 ton mineral it appears to have the reversing link on the handbrake lever and also roller bearings.

Many thanks Mark. I was wondering if it might one of those LMS wagons, not so commonly seen in photos. 
in which case it doesn’t really belong in the 16t minerals thread, but perhaps useful as an example of something that looks like a 16t mineral but isn’t. 
cheers,

Mol

[Fat Controller]

13 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

I might be in the wrong thread with this one, but I’m sure the 16t mineral experts will put me right.

What is the first wagon in this train of iron ore tipplers?

Link to Niall Jordan’s photo on Flickr:

It looks like a 16t, except that it has a tiebar between the axleboxes. It’s pale coloured so probably unfitted. The photo date is 1964 which I think pre-dates most of the rebuild programmes. 

Cheers,

Mol

Could that first wagon be one of  the ex-LMS 27-tonnners, which were 16-tonners with heavier springs and journals?

[Enterprisingwestern]

On 26/12/2023 at 05:37, Mark Saunders said:

It looks like it is probably one of the LMS 27ton ones built for iron ore with the same body as a 16 ton mineral it appears to have the reversing link on the handbrake lever and also roller bearings.

 

21 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

Could that first wagon be one of  the ex-LMS 27-tonnners, which were 16-tonners with heavier springs and journals?

 

There's a bad echo in here Brian!!

 

Mike.

[Fat Controller]

4 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

 

There's a bad echo in here Brian!!

 

Mike.

I type very slowly,,,,

[Metr0Land]

75048 Arnside 2-8-68  (T Ermel-2078cS) by Trevor Ermel, on Flickr

 

45046 at Flitwick by

Bingley Hall, on Flickr

 

Flitwick freight by Bingley Hall, on Flickr - Flitwick

 

Derby moment by Bingley Hall, on Flickr -Derby

[LL1060]

One minor variation on the typical 16-tonner I've found interesting was the use of a U-channel bracket to hold the body to the frame. About 1500, maybe more, received this treatment in the tail end of 2798, and continuing through part of lot 2799, both built by Metro-Cammell. Pictures are available at Paul Bartlett's remarkable gallery, and that's what made me decide to model this variation. 

 

 

I took a Parkside Dia. 1/108 kit and assembled it as normal, except for the brackets. Those were to be replaced with small cutoffs of what started as a piece of aluminium 3/32-in. square section. (If I could have acquired the same size material as a channel from the first, I would have, but no luck.) Next, much Dremel work ensued - opening up the side of the channel, cutting a piece to length, rounding off the bottom corners, and then removing part of the top surface to clear the upper solebar. This was a delicate process, which had to be done eight times over in all. Immediately supergluing each bracket in place made sure none got lost!

 

Part of me wants to do another one, but between how subtle a modification this is and the amount of effort needed for it, I'm somewhat hesitant. This in-process photo was the only one I've taken that showed the work clearly enough. 

[watfordtmc]

Just drawing attention to this current issue of Backtrack (Apr 2024), which contains the quite well known John Spencer Gills image of Banstead Goods Yard (Epsom Downs branch) on 24/05/1963.

 

Image shows three 16t minerals, including LNER Dia 188 mineral E272920 (Cambrian).  Some replating evident and welded side

door visible, along with one LNE and one BR axlebox.

 

Refs

Backtrack April 2024, vol 38 no 4 issue 396, p 211.

LNER Wagons 4A. Tatlow P, Wild Swan Publications (Didcot) 2012.  P70-74 for discussion on steel mineral wagons.

 

Regards

TMc

22/03/2024

 

[montyburns56]

One thing I've always wondered about the 16 tonners is what was the purpose of the top flap?

[Southernman46]

To lay planks across so that wagons could be unloaded from sidings further out ............. sounds daft but I'm sure I've see a photo somewhere .......... referred to as the "London" flap ??

[Nick Holliday]

8 hours ago, Southernman46 said:

To lay planks across so that wagons could be unloaded from sidings further out ............. sounds daft but I'm sure I've see a photo somewhere .......... referred to as the "London" flap ??

That may have happened, but as I understand it, the flap, the presence of which severely weakened the structural integrity of the wagon, was an early example of health and safety, and/or labour pressure. As the height of coal wagons increased in the Edwardian era, the workers employed in London to unload the wagons objected to having to lift the coal over the higher sides, and, to appease them, the flap was introduced to reduce the height accordingly to something like that of the five or six plank wagons they were used to. Perhaps labourers north of Watford were made of stronger stuff, or were less organised.

[Sitham Yard]

4 hours ago, Nick Holliday said:

That may have happened, but as I understand it, the flap, the presence of which severely weakened the structural integrity of the wagon, was an early example of health and safety, and/or labour pressure. As the height of coal wagons increased in the Edwardian era, the workers employed in London to unload the wagons objected to having to lift the coal over the higher sides, and, to appease them, the flap was introduced to reduce the height accordingly to something like that of the five or six plank wagons they were used to. Perhaps labourers north of Watford were made of stronger stuff, or were less organised.

Going back to wooden bodied private owner wagons some had the "London Plank" where the height of the top plank was lowered, just on the section above the side door, to the agreed maximum height. Other wagons had cupboard doors, either just in the top plank or in all the planks above the side doors. 

 

Source book "The Acquired Wagons of British Railways Volume 3" by David Larkin.

Andrew