Mucky Duck Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 A couple more in progress… a rusty Bachmann and a Parkside that's almost a bit too clean for Mucky stock! 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 I love them, the one on the right is my favourite hard to get a balance of what you think would look right in a train, but when you start looking at the prototype pics, it varies so much, in that either too clean or too rusty, you dont notice unless you study every wagon in each train, some will hardly have any rust, some will be heavily rusted. they look spot on for the period. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 hard to get a balance of what you think would look right in a train, but when you start looking at the prototype pics, it varies so much, in that either too clean or too rusty, you dont notice unless you study every wagon in each train, some will hardly have any rust, some will be heavily rusted. It's very hard Mike, and in all honesty I've probably looked at more pics than is healthy for me - statistics being what they are, you can convince yourself you've sussed the correct mix for a given period, then you'll find one pic that totally disproves it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45568 Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 It also depends on which period you are modelling as well. I can remember in the mid-50's as a small boy walking with my dad past the storage roads at Blidworth colliery on a Sunday and seeing almost complete rakes of the then brand new 16-tonners, along with their older 13T wooden bodied cousins. Four or five years later, they were still in reasonable condition, and new examples were still to be seen. One thing that remains is the memory that there was always a bauxite fitted example, usually looking newer than the rest, in every train! So, if you are modelling 1955-9, the heavily rusted 16 tonner is probably a few years in the future, and light rust spotting may suffice! Cheers,Peter C. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucky Duck Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Glad you like them Mike. I've recently been getting cross-eyed looking at countless pics of 16-tonners but I'm sure I'm just scratching the surface compared with you guys. What I love about the period I'm modelling – 1963-ish – is the huge variation in tones and textures – every permutation between 'brand new' and 'rust-bucket'. At the moment I'm sticking to copying individual wagons that have taken my fancy, making both sides quite different but with roughly the same amount of wear. It will be a while before I can think about the train as a whole, although I have a couple of 'rogue' bauxites in readiness. For me they have also been a good starting point for painting and weathering techniques as there's scope to get it slightly wrong yet still get away with it (I hope). On a different note… Wagon Wheels! Not those huge, fantastic chocolate biscuity things we used to woof-down as kids (some of us may still do so now) but 16T wheel diameters. In the photo, disregarding the bigger flange of the the Bachmann wheel it seems that the wheels supplied with Parkside kits have a significantly smaller tyre diameter. I would imagine that that they are correct and the Bacchie ones are too big. Can anyone please confirm this? And would a 20T Brake van use the same sized wheels as a 16T? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 A quick check on wheel sizes using some I have lying around here. Bacmann wheels from a BR 20T brake van are 12.75mm (3' 21/2") across the tyre, whereas the ones supplied by Parkside with a 16 T mineral kit are 12.05mm (3' 1/8") and, for comparison, some Gibson P4 wheels are 12.5mm (3' 11/2"). Looks like Bachmann are oversize and Parkside undersize. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucky Duck Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Thanks Nick. I had expected the Bachmann's to be over-sized but the margin by which the Parkside's are under-sized is a bit of a surprise, even if they do look a bit weedy when fitted to a 20T Brake van. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 . I had expected the Bachmann's to be over-sized but the margin by which the Parkside's are under-sized is a bit of a surprise, 'Tis quite a graphic comparison isnt it - though dont forget that only half of that 0.7mm will matter when it comes to affecting the ride height And would a 20T Brake van use the same sized wheels as a 16T? There are significant exceptions, but virtually all 'ordinary' traditional wagons run on wheels of nominal 3 foot 1 and a half inch diameter 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Is this a bit too clean for inclusion here? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 1, 2011 Author Share Posted August 1, 2011 very clean are welcome, all are welcome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 The relative bulk of the Bachmann wheel flanges don't help, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Ian has hit the nail on the head here, in that the key word is the adjective "nominal". That's what they start out at, but as they get worn they get re-profiled sporadically, and could end up less than 3' in diameter before being replaced: Alan Gibson's wheels are spot on, therefore, and Parkside's show evidence of somne re-profiling. It may not seem like a big deal, but such variations in size are entirely prototypical and can enhance a rake of mineral wagons as small differences in height can result from this. Of course, the corollary of this is that buffer heights can vary, too - dropping from the maximum by just over an inch, depending on how much wear is allowed before new tyres/wheels are fitted. Locomotoive wheels, at least for steam locos, have new tyres fitted once the old ones have worn away too much - typical 2.5"-3" of diameter. Not sure what they do with more modern loco, coach or wagon wheels. Hope that is of some use, and if someone can elighten us on that last point, I would appreciate it. Simon Most modern wheels are 'Monobloc' with the tyre being integral to the wheel; when the wheel can no longer be reprofiled, it is scrapped. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boscarne Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Here's a lightly rusted but fairly clean Bachmann MCO, re-wheeled to EM and the tension locks dispensed with, but otherwise untouched, right down to the bent brake lever..... 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 , right down to the bent brake lever..... It wont be bent as such Clive, just that the spigot at the top wont have been located far enough into the chassis moulding. If you separate it from the body, you might be able to ease it in a bit, or slice it through and reglue. Nice job though, nice and subtle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 6, 2011 Author Share Posted August 6, 2011 A 16 ton mineral wagon has its contents of coal discharged into a vessel at Preston docks in June 1968 http://ribblesteam.multiply.com/journal/item/473 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 7, 2011 Author Share Posted August 7, 2011 very rusty & some not so at Walton old junction in the 1960s http://www.flickr.com/photos/kerryp28/6018937264/in/photostream 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 very rusty & some not so at Walton old junction in the 1960s http://www.flickr.com/photos/kerryp28/6018937264/in/photostream Off topic, but what is that vehicle against the buffer stop on the front line? It is bogied, short and I thought a brake tender. But all except the earliest type (as page 61 upper picture in Larkin, David (1975) BR Standard freight wagons A pictorial survey. Bradford Barton Ltd, Cornwall ISBN 0 85153 240 3, 64 pages) have a curved top. Those early ones do have a flat top, but I don't think that LNER coach bogies would show the sides of the axleboxes so clearly (and they had a shorter flat top than this appears to have). Also what are those 'things' extending upwards from the side sheeting? By the way a lovely photograph, t'is a pity it appears to be undated. The van train is wonderfully varied - even one with a white roof! I wasn't taken to Warrington Old Junction until the early 1980s and it remained a very interesting yard at least into the late 80s. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Off topic, but what is that vehicle against the buffer stop on the front line? It is bogied, short and I thought a brake tender. But all except the earliest type (as page 61 upper picture in Larkin, David (1975) BR Standard freight wagons A pictorial survey. Bradford Barton Ltd, Cornwall ISBN 0 85153 240 3, 64 pages) have a curved top. Those early ones do have a flat top, but I don't think that LNER coach bogies would show the sides of the axleboxes so clearly (and they had a shorter flat top than this appears to have). Also what are those 'things' extending upwards from the side sheeting? By the way a lovely photograph, t'is a pity it appears to be undated. The van train is wonderfully varied - even one with a white roof! I wasn't taken to Warrington Old Junction until the early 1980s and it remained a very interesting yard at least into the late 80s. Paul Bartlett I have a notion that it's nothing of that sort but possibly some sort of water carrier or similar built on an old tender frame - possibly one of the eight-wheel types which were paired with L&Y 0-8-0s? My guess is a sludge tender, in which case some sort of door arrangement is what is on the sides - the full-size picture shows evidence of a hatch on top - but that's all it is, a guess. Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 as Adam says, at Bank hall shed.... they went to Kirkby and this one has "to be returned when empty to water softening plant Southport" 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Cheers Mike! Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 as Adam says, at Bank hall shed.... they went to Kirkby and this one has "to be returned when empty to water softening plant Southport" Dear Adam and Mike. Wow that was quick! I have seen 6 wheel sludge tenders http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/paulbartlettsrailwaywagonphotographs/e1d59259f http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/paulbartlettsrailwaywagonphotographs/e1e195909 but had not known of the 8 wheel versions! Thanks Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucky Duck Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 very rusty & some not so at Walton old junction in the 1960s http://www.flickr.co.../in/photostream What a wonderful shot that is Mike! In complete contrast, a lovely close-up of a 16T's 'corner' here . I reckon one has to model in the larger scales to get that level of detail. Does anyone do a model of any of those sludge tenders BTW? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Does anyone do a model of any of those sludge tenders BTW? Not as such, no, but in 4mm, the tender itself can be had from London Road Models. Adam 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 the leaf springs I think are interesting Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 http://www.flickr.com/photos/happyraildays/6046867613/in/photostream/ !!!!!!! A green class 40, centre headcode, on the bootle branch, with a brake tender, I need to go lie down!!! and a nicely weathered 16t too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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